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Injustice 2 Update 1.19 Is Out (Patch notes now available)

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Eldriken

Guest
Really? I thought his neutral game was pretty sound.

I've always thought of Darkseid being one of the more balanced characters in the game since they never really touched him in all this time.

Not too powerful and not too weak.
His neutral is pretty terrible in my opinion. His only mid is dogshit. His best punisher is a 13f high, so unless the opponent is super negative, they can duck it or beat it with a poke.

I know he's not the only character that has this issue, but his only means of really doing anything comes from full combo punishable 50/50s that aren't even that much of a threat to begin with.

I just wish his f2 was a mid. That's all.
 

Esruck Cype

FGC member longer than you've been born
Really? I thought his neutral game was pretty sound.

I've always thought of Darkseid being one of the more balanced characters in the game since they never really touched him in all this time.

Not too powerful and not too weak.
Heavily disagree with the neutral game. His buttons do not advance him at all, except f23 which is a super high move. His best button in neutral in so many situations is d1, and that's sad.

That said, he's balanced as the "specialist" type of char. His buttons are awful, he takes damage like a wimp, and his movement is meh. But his jump/tele mixups are stupid even if the low option is unsafe, the damage he gets off said mixups are stupid, and his zoning is good enough to cause issues in some matches. He's an honest dishonest char.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Heavily disagree with the neutral game. His buttons do not advance him at all, except f23 which is a super high move. His best button in neutral in so many situations is d1, and that's sad.

That said, he's balanced as the "specialist" type of char. His buttons are awful, he takes damage like a wimp, and his movement is meh. But his jump/tele mixups are stupid even if the low option is unsafe, the damage he gets off said mixups are stupid, and his zoning is good enough to cause issues in some matches. He's an honest dishonest char.
Confused about the damage part. Like yeah he takes more in terms of numbers, but he has a 1400 HP bar to compensate? Like a 700 damage combo for him is only 50% of his total HP bar.
 
Heavily disagree with the neutral game. His buttons do not advance him at all, except f23 which is a super high move. His best button in neutral in so many situations is d1, and that's sad.

That said, he's balanced as the "specialist" type of char. His buttons are awful, he takes damage like a wimp, and his movement is meh. But his jump/tele mixups are stupid even if the low option is unsafe, the damage he gets off said mixups are stupid, and his zoning is good enough to cause issues in some matches. He's an honest dishonest char.
Highlight mine.

Because of this set-up is why I was thinking on why Darkseid is good, really good.

But I'm no Darkseid expert, so...
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I think he's fine. Better mids will likely be the only change he'll ever get. Not asking for like Robin level mids or anything but boi does he not have any at the moment.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Darkseid has 1400 health, but also has the lowest defense in the game. The difference in damage received between him and other characters is only a few percent when you do the math. The same thing happened to Hellboy recently.

I feel Darkseid's 50/50s are a bill. Pushblock, walking back and jumping solve a lot of the mixup issues he can bring to the table. Do they work? Yes. But against an experienced player, they're not gonna work that often.

I find myself going for throws and f23 punishes more than actual mixups.

I do b12 far more than b1u3 since it's plus (only +2, I believe), which can sometimes help if someone presses a slow button to punish you because they're unaware that you're plus. But the pushback from it and 112 (another plus string) doesn't leave you within range to really make use of it.

He's just a mixed bag, but I still enjoy him.
 

Esruck Cype

FGC member longer than you've been born
I think he's fine. Better mids will likely be the only change he'll ever get. Not asking for like Robin level mids or anything but boi does he not have any at the moment.
I think he's fine as well. Kinda over this "if you're not first, you're last" mentality about mid tier chars.

A slightly advancing standing 2 would be nice but eh, not the end of the world
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Yeah sometimes people have think that Darkseid players are just downplaying but he seriously has like 0 good buttons.
 

Esruck Cype

FGC member longer than you've been born
I feel Darkseid's 50/50s are a bill. Pushblock, walking back and jumping solve a lot of the mixup issues he can bring to the table. Do they work? Yes. But against an experienced player, they're not gonna work that often.
I think they are a bill when he has no trait for a proper setup to get his stupid damage. Pretty crappy feeling dealing with a char that can deal with his lasers and trait is on cooldown. That's when I personally have the worst time as Darkseid. I either have to, like you said, play very patiently with his bad neutral or throw out something maniac (which is usually a full combo punish)
 

Esruck Cype

FGC member longer than you've been born
Yeah sometimes people have think that Darkseid players are just downplaying but he seriously has like 0 good buttons.
As compensation to almost all his normals being bad, they should make his flying knee completely safe on block hehe
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I think they are a bill when he has no trait for a proper setup to get his stupid damage. Pretty crappy feeling dealing with a char that can deal with his lasers and trait is on cooldown. That's when I personally have the worst time as Darkseid. I either have to, like you said, play very patiently with his bad neutral or throw out something maniac (which is usually a full combo punish)
I still think it's a bill with his trait. Pushblock negates it entirely and so does jumping. Hell, characters with a fast enough poke can poke out of it. They'll likely get hit by the trait, but since they poked you, you're in hit stun and can't do anything.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
The thing about neutral in this game is. Having a projectile is a big deal since fireballs don't collide. Darkseod I agree doesn't play footsies well at all. But his neutral isn't the worst in the game by far.
His footsies on the other hand...
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
The thing about neutral in this game is. Having a projectile is a big deal since fireballs don't collide. Darkseod I agree doesn't play footsies well at all. But his neutral isn't the worst in the game by far.
His footsies on the other hand...
Maybe not the worst, but definitely one of. Basically every other projectile character has better buttons up close aside from maybe Cyborg. His normals are just flat out terrible 95% of the time.

His mixup game is high reward but kinda gimmicky. His zoning is strong but if you play fundamentals and patiently you'll get him into his "dead range" where he basically can't do anything. That's where his neutral fails him badly. All you need to do is have the threat of punishing a laser and he's playing your game now.
 
Didn't anyone notice Darkseid getting a little buffed last patch?!? Like his d1 becoming +20 on hit and that actually gives him a 6 frame punish (d1 bounce cancel combos now) when he has 2 bars for like 450 damage. And also jails his b1u3 ( not at max range d1 though) and f23 (even if the opponent is ducking after getting hit by his d1).
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Didn't anyone notice Darkseid getting a little buffed last patch?!? Like his d1 becoming +20 on hit and that actually gives him a 6 frame punish (d1 bounce cancel combos now) when he has 2 bars for like 450 damage. And also jails his b1u3 ( not at max range d1 though) and f23 (even if the opponent is ducking after getting hit by his d1).
Doesn't hit D1 have insane pushback on hit though or did they change that.
 
Doesn't hit D1 have insane pushback on hit though or did they change that.
It does, but b1u3 and f23 still connect and jail, and I believe he is the only character who can combo d1xxbounce cancel, the only one who’s d1 is +20. And in the corner it is a guaranteed 50/50 or throw.

By the way, I am in no way implying that he is top tier, he isn’t. But he is better than half of the cast. If they want to emphasize his dependency on lasers in the neutral, they could make ground omega recover like 5 frames faster, but that would make him broke in MU where opponents already struggle to get in.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
It does, but b1u3 and f23 still connect and jail, and I believe he is the only character who can combo d1xxbounce cancel, the only one who’s d1 is +20. And in the corner it is a guaranteed 50/50 or throw.

By the way, I am in no way implying that he is top tier, he isn’t. But he is better than half of the cast. If they want to emphasize his dependency on lasers in the neutral, they could make ground omega recover like 5 frames faster, but that would make him broke in MU where opponents already struggle to get in.
Even though all that is true, his neutral is still a major problem for him and what sets him back hard. Like lasers do work but once you get to half screen his options become super limited imo. Particularly if you've got a strong advancing mid or a decent anti-air option. If you had both you could just bully him super hard, like Robin imo. Even in comp play you really see the struggles he has once you reach that dead range where his buttons don't reach and his lasers are punishable. I don't play a whole lot of Darkseid's nowadays but I've never had a problem getting past his zoning. MB roll is always super effective due to the recovery of lasers, even as characters who have average rolls.

I honestly don't think he's all too great just because of how poor his buttons are.
 
Even though all that is true, his neutral is still a major problem for him and what sets him back hard. Like lasers do work but once you get to half screen his options become super limited imo. Particularly if you've got a strong advancing mid or a decent anti-air option. If you had both you could just bully him super hard, like Robin imo. Even in comp play you really see the struggles he has once you reach that dead range where his buttons don't reach and his lasers are punishable. I don't play a whole lot of Darkseid's nowadays but I've never had a problem getting past his zoning. MB roll is always super effective due to the recovery of lasers, even as characters who have average rolls.

I honestly don't think he's all too great just because of how poor his buttons are.
Yeah, but there are still worse characters. Again I am not saying he is great, he definitely needs some help if you want him to be like top 10. I play him a lot, I know his drawbacks. It is especially noticeable in long sets, where you can mop people, mixing left and right for like 10 games , and then smart opponents start making you feel like you suddenly have no options, and you can’t really play this character defensively)
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Yeah, but there are still worse characters. Again I am not saying he is great, he definitely needs some help if you want him to be like top 10. I play him a lot, I know his drawbacks. It is especially noticeable in long sets, where you can mop people, mixing left and right for like 10 games , and then smart opponents start making you feel like you suddenly have no options, and you can’t really play this character defensively)
That's what I'm saying. I picked up this character for awhile but once you realise that he has basically 0 options once lasers stop working is ridiculous, I dropped him. I've played a good amount of the cast and I haven't felt so helpless at a range with any of them, there always felt like there was something I could do to at least improve my situation but with Darkseid I just don't see what to do at those ranges that isn't a super hard read.

Isn't Flash v Darkseid like a 7-3 matchup because Flash just tears Darkseid's laser game apart entirely?
 
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That's what I'm saying. I picked up this character for awhile but once you realise that he has basically 0 options once lasers stop working is ridiculous, I dropped him. I've played a good amount of the cast and I haven't felt so helpless at a range with any of them, there always felt like there was something I could do to at least improve my situation but with Darkseid I just don't see what to do at those ranges that isn't a super hard read.

Isn't Flash v Darkseid like a 7-3 matchup because Flash just tears Darkseid's laser game apart entirely?
Don’t know if it is 7:3, but it is bad, like very bad. Like, the plus side of Darkseid’s unsafe mix is that not a lot of characters can punish it for as much as Darkseid would get if the mix hit. But Flash takes your lifebar for that. So the risk reward is heavily in his favour. And that’s On top of Darkseid not a having a consistent way of keeping him out)
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Don’t know if it is 7:3, but it is bad, like very bad. Like, the plus side of Darkseid’s unsafe mix is that not a lot of characters can punish it for as much as Darkseid would get if the mix hit. But Flash takes your lifebar for that. So the risk reward is heavily in his favour. And that’s On top of Darkseid not a having a consistent way of keeping him out)
I guess this isn't a Darkseid MU discussion but I think it's 7-3.

I just don't see who gets zoned out by Darkseid consistently unless you're talking some like Canary I guess, but even then MB roll is such a good answer for lasers on a read. A mid F2 would make him far far better and it wouldn't even come close to breaking him
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Can we have a serious mini-discussion on how Grodd has been bottom 5 for literally the entire game's life? Can we talk about how NRS doesn't seem to know how to change this character?
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Can we have a serious mini-discussion on how Grodd has been bottom 5 for literally the entire game's life? Can we talk about how NRS doesn't seem to know how to change this character?
Grodd can go to Hell. He may be shit tier, but he gives me problems. =|