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Question - Aftershock how should I utilize dd1

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Wow I just looked at this thread and it's funny how there was always a dispute between aftershock and crystalline. I'm just waiting for someone to master AS. It's a lot easier to play crystalline I'll give them that but mastering AS, is way better. It's sad how everyone who doesn't play tremor believes crystalline is way better than AS because no notable player claims AS being better. Whenever people give their opinion about crystalline being better I just nod my head because that's what the majority thinks and saying otherwise gets u a whole lot of hate. All because no one argued that AS was better.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Wow I just looked at this thread and it's funny how there was always a dispute between aftershock and crystalline. I'm just waiting for someone to master AS. It's a lot easier to play crystalline I'll give them that but mastering AS, is way better. It's sad how everyone who doesn't play tremor believes crystalline is way better than AS because no notable player claims AS being better. Whenever people give their opinion about crystalline being better I just nod my head because that's what the majority thinks and saying otherwise gets u a whole lot of hate. All because no one argued that AS was better.
yeah once you see it for the first time you will start to notice that the majority of people on this site are just parroting back what they have seen better players than themselves say, to try make themselves feel equally intelligent



M2Dave says tremor is trash? "Tremor is unplayable bro, bottom 5, potato tier, you are whining about losing to Tremor" (at the time I literally even had a Tremor avatar and mood choser, and I shit you not, this is what I was told for saying he's not that bad)


M2Dave and pig say that after some playtime, Crystalline is actually still really good? "Tremor is fine bro, Crystalline best variation, duh flex has always been strong, its just the other 2 unplayably bad"


if Reo, or Sonic, or Brady, or anyone made a video tomorrow explaining how good Aftershock is? "knew it all along bro. Possibly even the best variation. Don't know how people slept on this variation for so long"


And yes it IS the same people.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
yeah once you see it for the first time you will start to notice that the majority of people on this site are just parroting back what they have seen better players than themselves say, to try make themselves feel equally intelligent



M2Dave says tremor is trash? "Tremor is unplayable bro, bottom 5, potato tier, you are whining about losing to Tremor" (at the time I literally even had a Tremor avatar and mood choser, and I shit you not, this is what I was told for saying he's not that bad)


M2Dave and pig say that after some playtime, Crystalline is actually still really good? "Tremor is fine bro, Crystalline best variation, duh flex has always been strong, its just the other 2 unplayably bad"


if Reo, or Sonic, or Brady, or anyone made a video tomorrow explaining how good Aftershock is? "knew it all along bro. Possibly even the best variation. Don't know how people slept on this variation for so long"


And yes it IS the same people.
Couldn't of said better myself
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Wow I just looked at this thread and it's funny how there was always a dispute between aftershock and crystalline. I'm just waiting for someone to master AS. It's a lot easier to play crystalline I'll give them that but mastering AS, is way better. It's sad how everyone who doesn't play tremor believes crystalline is way better than AS because no notable player claims AS being better. Whenever people give their opinion about crystalline being better I just nod my head because that's what the majority thinks and saying otherwise gets u a whole lot of hate. All because no one argued that AS was better.
No one argues because no logical argument that supports Aftershock being as good as or superior to Crystalline exists. Understandably, the community has a mental image stuck of Denzel's consistent top 8 placing with Aftershock Tremor, but Crystalline has always been Tremor's best variation for the following four reasons.

1. EX low stone shatter. Aside from Goro, Tremor is the only character who has a safe armored launcher. Pre-patch EX low stone shatter was the best move in the game. Post-patch EX low stone shatter most definitely remains a top 5 move in the game. Basically, this move blows through everything, including annoying low pokes that Tremor struggles with in Aftershock and Metallic, that is not a very quick multiple-hitting string like Johnny Cage's 1,1 or Liu Kang's b+1. When Tremor has a bar in Crystalline, opponents are scared to press buttons at mid range which allows you to start your offense.

2. Safe mid and low stone shatters. Mid and low stone shatters are unsafe in Aftershock and Metallic, but in Crystalline they are both 0 on block. While every string in Crystalline that ends with a stone shatter creates a gap, you can cancel the stone shatter and bait the armored attack. You also have the ability to cancel the stone shatter and go for an EX low stone shatter to punish most retaliations in the game, including annoying low pokes. When safe and cancel-able stone shatters are conjoined with f+1,2,1, Tremor builds meter much more effectively in Crystalline than he does in Aftershock or Metallic, and building meter grants you access to the best armored attack in the game.

3. Crystallization. Tremor has one hit of "Doomsday armor". Tremor takes less damage and chip damage. Opponents cannot combo Tremor, but some exceptions apply. Hit stun is severely reduced to the extent that most wake up attacks become punishable on hit. This property allows Tremor to ignore most wake up attacks. While Aftershock and Metallic (in "Gold" stance) have weak okizeme options because of the universal up rock normalization, Crystalline's okizeme remains fairly strong due to Crystallization. Crystallization also permits Tremor to zone safely with rolling rocks. If Tremor gets jumped on by a punch, you get hit by the punch but can block the incoming combo. This strategy also applies to most teleport attacks.

4. Boulder Summon. Tremor summons a boulder that you can toss or jump away from using no stamina meter. The utility of this move is largely situational because summoning the boulder has a slow start up. Tossing the rock also has a slow start up. Nonetheless, you can use the boulder in some match ups to trade with projectiles or to anti-air jumping opponents full screen away. If the boulder hits, EX ground pulse is guaranteed for a nice chunk of damage.

As far as Aftershock and Metallic are concerned, yes, these two variations are low tier in the current iteration of the game for the following reasons.

1. Abysmal offense. No 50/50 mix ups, no pressure, and no okizeme. The universal changes to up rock have ruined any type of offense that these two variations were able to generate.

2. Abysmal footsies. Tremor struggles majorly against low pokes in these two variations. Tremor's mid attacks are too slow to check the better low pokes on block, and there is no EX low stone shatter to bail you out. You will be blocking low pokes over and over again without having an opportunity to begin your offense.

3. Abysmal zoning tools. Aftershock's aerial earthquake does 5% of damage and 0.50% of chip damage. If your opponent predicts an aerial earthquake and meets you in the air, you will eat a combo that does at least 20% of damage. The fireballs in Metallic in "Gold" stance have too many start up and recovery frames. This game has a run button and normal attacks that reach half the screen. I cannot fathom why these fireballs are this horrendous.

What is your argument?
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
No one argues because no logical argument that supports Aftershock being as good as or superior to Crystalline exists. Understandably, the community has a mental image stuck of Denzel's consistent top 8 placing with Aftershock Tremor, but Crystalline has always been Tremor's best variation for the following four reasons.

1. EX low stone shatter. Aside from Goro, Tremor is the only character who has a safe armored launcher. Pre-patch EX low stone shatter was the best move in the game. Post-patch EX low stone shatter most definitely remains a top 5 move in the game. Basically, this move blows through everything, including annoying low pokes that Tremor struggles with in Aftershock and Metallic, that is not a very quick multiple-hitting string like Johnny Cage's 1,1 or Liu Kang's b+1. When Tremor has a bar in Crystalline, opponents are scared to press buttons at mid range which allows you to start your offense.

2. Safe mid and low stone shatters. Mid and low stone shatters are unsafe in Aftershock and Metallic, but in Crystalline they are both 0 on block. While every string in Crystalline that ends with a stone shatter creates a gap, you can cancel the stone shatter and bait the armored attack. You also have the ability to cancel the stone shatter and go for an EX low stone shatter to punish most retaliations in the game, including annoying low pokes. When safe and cancel-able stone shatters are conjoined with f+1,2,1, Tremor builds meter much more effectively in Crystalline than he does in Aftershock or Metallic, and building meter grants you access to the best armored attack in the game.

3. Crystallization. Tremor has one hit of "Doomsday armor". Tremor takes less damage and chip damage. Opponents cannot combo Tremor, but some exceptions apply. Hit stun is severely reduced to the extent that most wake up attacks become punishable on hit. This property allows Tremor to ignore most wake up attacks. While Aftershock and Metallic (in "Gold" stance) have weak okizeme options because of the universal up rock normalization, Crystalline's okizeme remains fairly strong due to Crystallization. Crystallization also permits Tremor to zone safely with rolling rocks. If Tremor gets jumped on by a punch, you get hit by the punch but can block the incoming combo. This strategy also applies to most teleport attacks.

4. Boulder Summon. Tremor summons a boulder that you can toss or jump away from using no stamina meter. The utility of this move is largely situational because summoning the boulder has a slow start up. Tossing the rock also has a slow start up. Nonetheless, you can use the boulder in some match ups to trade with projectiles or to anti-air jumping opponents full screen away. If the boulder hits, EX ground pulse is guaranteed for a nice chunk of damage.

As far as Aftershock and Metallic are concerned, yes, these two variations are low tier in the current iteration of the game for the following reasons.

1. Abysmal offense. No 50/50 mix ups, no pressure, and no okizeme. The universal changes to up rock have ruined any type of offense that these two variations were able to generate.

2. Abysmal footsies. Tremor struggles majorly against low pokes in these two variations. Tremor's mid attacks are too slow to check the better low pokes on block, and there is no EX low stone shatter to bail you out. You will be blocking low pokes over and over again without having an opportunity to begin your offense.

3. Abysmal zoning tools. Aftershock's aerial earthquake does 5% of damage and 0.50% of chip damage. If your opponent predicts an aerial earthquake and meets you in the air, you will eat a combo that does at least 20% of damage. The fireballs in Metallic in "Gold" stance have too many start up and recovery frames. This game has a run button and normal attacks that reach half the screen. I cannot fathom why these fireballs are this horrendous.

What is your argument?
U didn't have to argue metallic, as far as the armor move goes. Tremor already has safe armor db2 run cancel. As good as crystalline ex low shatter is, it's just another armor move for tremor that IMO he doesn't need. Db2u ex is already one of the best anti airs in the game. Almost unbeatable and yes crystallization has the db1d to stop pokes aftershock has its aerial attacks. If you can do his aerial attacks at even a decently low height, u punish all pokes if your fast enough. Yes they can punish it but I'm pretty sure they can punish db1 with armor after a string. I might be wrong on that if I am just say so. The air quake is enough incentive to stop low poking if u Inforce that you can punish it. Tremor has no offense, no matter the variation. It's not like ex db1d gives him this. He does not gain any advantage that his cancels give him and neither does his f121 because no mids or good poke. Yeah they can stuff and air quake by jumping but the same for db1d. Honestly I don't know how u can even argue his zoning is better. That's just not true at all. Yeah both variations have rolling stone, but AS has air quake and it's not your main zoning tool. It's just to check people who have specials that could outmatch or match tremor's zoning in his other two variations. Air quake stops this. Db1 covers a huge distance that sends them full distance if they just jump at u. AlSo gives u a guaranteed dd1. I was watching sets with reo, and I saw you get zoned out a majority of the time by error black. Except for the times u had more health than your opponent. Reality is in AS, u never get zoned out regardless(MU dependent) . AS db1 is like a shitty version of mystic's push, but is still very good. I can't take you seriously with your knowledge of AS tremor because you say his zoning is bad. He matches up with full auto's zoning. Db1 has amazing utility, air quake lets you zone and if your good enough u can punish moves and becomes unpunishable. And crystalline has Boulder summon and armor and AS has earth shake. This move is low key really good just still has the reputation of being a useless move. I won't argue tho it's much harder to zone people then to be in their face. Do I think crystalline has a better up close game yes I do. In the corner I honestly would say it is even. Ex dd1 in the corner makes people wake up and is guaranteed after a db1 in the corner. U can stuff any meterless wake up. This move gives you insane amount of options in the corner. It does cost a meter tho. Also do I think crystalline has better zoning. HELL NO. Not even close. That's the only reason y AS is still relevant. AS outmatches crystallines zoning in everyway. The trade off is you have to work harder up close. It sucks because there is a skill barrier with AS. only thing holding him back. Yes crystalline is way easier and more simple to use, I won't argue that. I can see why most people flock to that variation. You praise db1 in crystalline but db1 in aftershock is a whole other move. A hard knockdown with more advantage than db2 and has more range than the crystal shatter. Great for punishing jumps mid screen and guarantees your dd1. Funny how no one mentions this move at all but the crystal db1 is God. In regards to zoning both variations have db2u(one of the bet AA's in th game) which greatly enhance his zoning in both variations. It punishes any jump attempt. And aiQ gives u so much options if you master it, but no notable player has bothered with it. A big point to bring out is both of these variations should be used. They give u options for a better up close game when u need it and zoning for when you have to go against a character that outmatches your offense 10-0. Only thing is AS is branded as a terrible variation so no one uses it. They have their MU's and saying AS is completely useless is dumb. A tremor play should use both (not to say I do :p) but there is an argument that crystalline is better all around so no point in using it mentality. Last thing, yeah iaQ does no damage but when someone gets checked ten times by it in a round, it's enough incentive to stop any attempt to zone out tremor. Thus you begin rolling stone, stone shatter, dd1 options.
I don't believe in the image that Denzil proved aftershock to be the best. Had he just lamed out his opponents with AS he would have had more success. He did no use the character to its full potential IMO. When u see someone using AS and someone who mastered crystalline yeah crystalline looks way better. Note I didn't say mastered AS.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
@OmGxBdON, please use paragraphs. Your post is very difficult to read. The difficulty is amplified by your incoherent arguments about zoning, arguably one of the least relevant gameplay aspects in Mortal Kombat X.

I will issue you the same challenge that I have issued to every Aftershock Tremor player out there. Fight me online and prove to me that Aftershock is a viable variation. I am not looking to beat anybody and boast because I already know which one of Tremor's variation is the best. The vast majority of Tremor players do. I would just like to be surprised and see Aftershock be used effectively.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
@OmGxBdON, please use paragraphs. Your post is very difficult to read. The difficulty is amplified by your incoherent arguments about zoning, arguably one of the least relevant gameplay aspects in Mortal Kombat X.

I will issue you the same challenge that I have issued to every Aftershock Tremor player out there. Fight me online and prove to me that Aftershock is a viable variation. I am not looking to beat anybody and boast because I already know which one of Tremor's variation is the best. The vast majority of Tremor players do. I would just like to be surprised and see Aftershock be used effectively.
All it would accomplish is who knows the match up more and who's the better player. But sure I'm down. His zoning is bad? Tell that to F/T, Johnny cage, Kotal Kahn, jacqui, Bo, Erron, quan, jax, leather face,etc.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
All it would accomplish is who knows the match up more and who's the better player. But sure I'm down. His zoning is bad? Tell that to F/T, Johnny cage, Kotal Kahn, jacqui, Bo, Erron, quan, jax, leather face,etc.
Johnny Cage actually very easily out zones AfterShock Tremor.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Johnny Cage actually very easily out zones AfterShock Tremor.
I disagree with this. I don't think either zones the other that hard but I'd say Tremor has an advantage if he just plays patient and doesn't jump into high force ball. Stunt Double more so. Just talking about zoning of course.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
I disagree with this. I don't think either zones the other that hard but I'd say Tremor has an advantage if he just plays patient and doesn't jump into high force ball. Stunt Double more so. Just talking about zoning of course.
I did exaggerate a little, it's not easy, but I think A-List Cage has a very slight advantage. Whoever gets their projectile game going first is in control because nothing the other one has can really interrupt it even on block.

I just think Cage has a slightly easier time getting his projectiles going first because high force ball completely shuts down the air ground pound, normal force ball checks run ins and any grounded counter zoning and ExShadowKick has to be respected if Cage has meter cause it can just trade with any of Tremors projectiles and regain Cage's momentum.

Tremor doesn't really have a tool like shadow kick which just gets his momentum back from full screen and is mostly safe and usually trades in his favor. Once Cage gets going, especially on a life lead, Tremor just has to work his way in.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Johnny Cage actually very easily out zones AfterShock Tremor.
Correct. Doing aerial earthquakes at mid range is dangerous as an AA high force ball can actually combo into f+3.

I suggest Crystalline versus any of Johnny Cage's variations, particularly A-List. EX low stone shatter shuts down d+4. Crystallization ignores and punishes all of Cage's wake up options. Crystallization also allows you to zone safely. While crystallized, EX shadow kick is punishable on hit by f+1.

A universal anti-zoning strategy against Cage is to run and stop just outside of f+3's range. Tremor is one of the few characters in the game who can punish a whiffed canceled f+3. You can punish with f+1, but you have to be really fast.

Crystalline versus A-List is 5:5.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
I did exaggerate a little, it's not easy, but I think A-List Cage has a very slight advantage. Whoever gets their projectile game going first is in control because nothing the other one has can really interrupt it even on block.

I just think Cage has a slightly easier time getting his projectiles going first because high force ball completely shuts down the air ground pound, normal force ball checks run ins and any grounded counter zoning and ExShadowKick has to be respected if Cage has meter cause it can just trade with any of Tremors projectiles and regain Cage's momentum.

Tremor doesn't really have a tool like shadow kick which just gets his momentum back from full screen and is mostly safe and usually trades in his favor. Once Cage gets going, especially on a life lead, Tremor just has to work his way in.
The shadow kick is very easy to bait and full punish. I really don't know AS any cage variant is 6-4. Do u play cage, I'd like to try out the MU. I have a friend who plays cage who I play a lot, majority of the time he gets zoned out really hard despite the high force balls. Rolling stone recovers so quickly most of time you can either block or duck the force balls. All Johnny has is the shadow kick. Once cage is in tho, it gets tough for tremor. But rolling stone forcing u to take chip or jump really hurts Johnny in this MU. He's a spaceman and once he's of the ground, it's free dmg for tremor. Plus force balls stun and rolling stone Knocks down

This goes for stunt double, the shadow kick isn't a bug threat, if u get hit by it, that's all your fault. Doesn't even guarantee johnnys pressure unless it's in the corner. The zoning match is rough as hell for that variant, I don't play too much a list so Im not sure. I gotta fight a good a list to really see.
 
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