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Tier List: Honeybee and Biohazard's Opinion On Who's The Best And Worst in Injustice 2

MysTiiK_V

"For Mother Nature"
Sub should be A+.

EDIT: Just now finished to watch the vid. Ivy should be higher as well. Grodd also should be higher if both HB and Bio go by tournament success. Did they every see Oakiess' Grodd? And out of curiosity, why Raiden is that low?
no ivy is in the right place, trust in that
 

MysTiiK_V

"For Mother Nature"
Deadshot's zoning worked differently than that imo. Whereas a character like Fate it is hard to get in an hard to move around, moving around Deadshot's zoning isn't what made him so hard to fight imo. It was the CONSTANT access to meter, ass loads of free chip, and 50/50s that all added up to make him what he was. It wasn't necessarily hard to walk down Deadshot(although it was time consuming because you had to inch in because of wrist cannon's speed). He was so good because of the meter he built. It gave him access to MB rifle which gave him free chip and knock back, it only took 5 blocked bounce shots to build a bar. He also always had a bar to make his wakeup safe.

But all of this was because of the wrist cannon. It really only should have received ONE nerf. Just recovery, the startup nerf is stupid imo. Now you can cover a significant amount of ground after a ducked wrist cannon, if he wants to check you with a mid projectile, any blocked bounce shot gives you a free dash. Basically you will cover the distance, you will do it quickly, and when you get in he has mediocre frames, garbage D2, and abysmal damage. I don't agree with Deadshot having NO winning matchups but its not like Joker is some amazing character. I do think Deadshot is placed accurately on their tier list though. The nerfs to him go beyond "just having to think" imo, that description could apply to the nerfed Batman or Red Hood imo. But the wrist cannon was the source of Deadshot's dominant space control, access to meter, and just his overall threat in the neutral and with it being significantly worse, so is Deadshot imo.
he deserved it tho lol
 

MysTiiK_V

"For Mother Nature"
sub zero should be higher for sure, cheetah would be at about 13-20. Hellboy should def be higher. Blue beetle should def be higher as well
 
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MysTiiK_V

"For Mother Nature"
I think the only thing holding Superman back is catwoman now. Most of his worst must got nerfed last patch. I came right back to him after seeing Deadshot red hood and Batman taking nerfs.
right, and superman vs cw is only 4-6, I could definitely see him top 5
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Deadshot's zoning worked differently than that imo. Whereas a character like Fate it is hard to get in an hard to move around, moving around Deadshot's zoning isn't what made him so hard to fight imo. It was the CONSTANT access to meter, ass loads of free chip, and 50/50s that all added up to make him what he was. It wasn't necessarily hard to walk down Deadshot(although it was time consuming because you had to inch in because of wrist cannon's speed). He was so good because of the meter he built. It gave him access to MB rifle which gave him free chip and knock back, it only took 5 blocked bounce shots to build a bar. He also always had a bar to make his wakeup safe.

But all of this was because of the wrist cannon. It really only should have received ONE nerf. Just recovery, the startup nerf is stupid imo. Now you can cover a significant amount of ground after a ducked wrist cannon, if he wants to check you with a mid projectile, any blocked bounce shot gives you a free dash. Basically you will cover the distance, you will do it quickly, and when you get in he has mediocre frames, garbage D2, and abysmal damage. I don't agree with Deadshot having NO winning matchups but its not like Joker is some amazing character. I do think Deadshot is placed accurately on their tier list though. The nerfs to him go beyond "just having to think" imo, that description could apply to the nerfed Batman or Red Hood imo. But the wrist cannon was the source of Deadshot's dominant space control, access to meter, and just his overall threat in the neutral and with it being significantly worse, so is Deadshot imo.

Let me just be clear in saying that I didn't agree with the wrist cannon nerf at all. Personally, my biggest problem was his meter build and rifle. The fact that he had all that with 50/50's was ridiculous imo.

The only thing that I thought should have gotten the axe was his meter build and the rifle pushback.

But even after his nerfs, he's not bad. I don't really think there's anything wrong with having to be mindful of your projectile use, especially when your character has a plethora of good projectiles and a trait that can knock you back.

To me, deadshot requires you thinking about how your going to use your projectiles, as opposed to you continuously using WC and whatever other projectiles you want to use while building meter fast and easy with little to no risk in most MU's.

I don't think a character should have so many effective projectiles and a strong 50/50 game as well. But again, you're right, I do play the joker lol and this is my personal opinion. I would put deadshot in A Tier.

If you put the time in, deadshot can still be hella effective. It's not like he doesn't have the tools. I think the problem is most don't want to put the time in lol they want easy and effective *cough black adam* :rolleyes:
 
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TamedLizard

Buff George
Fooled? Sub ia indeed an awesome char in IJ2, don't know what are you taking about. Have you actually played the character?
I do not speak on behalf of characters I do not play. I didn't say he was garbage, just that Bio and Bee have him where he should be.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I do not speak on behalf of characters I do not play. I didn't say he was garbage, just that Bio and Bee have him where he should be.
Well I do play Sub and I can tell you he should be higher. He is not god tier, but he is much bettrt then where he is presented in that tier list.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
I agree with this except I would definitely move up Supergirl to S+. Also move up Firestorm & Hellboy to S.
I totally forgot about supergirl. Yeah I agree an argument can be made that she would be up there lol catwoman is just straight dumb though
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Let me just be clear in saying that I didn't agree with the wrist cannon nerf at all. Personally, my biggest problem was his meter build and rifle. The fact that he had all that with 50/50's was ridiculous imo.

The only thing that I thought should have gotten the axe was his meter build and the rifle pushback.

But even after his nerfs, he's not bad. I don't really think there's anything wrong with having to be mindful of your projectile use, especially when your character has a plethora of good projectiles and a trait that can knock you back.

To me, deadshot requires you thinking about how your going to use your projectiles, as opposed to you continuously using WC and whatever other projectiles you want to use while building meter fast and easy with little to no risk in most MU's.

I don't think a character should have so many effective projectiles and a strong 50/50 game as well. But again, you're right, I do play the joker lol and this is my personal opinion. I would put deadshot in A Tier.

If you put the time in, deadshot can still be hella effective. It's not like he doesn't have the tools. I think the problem is most don't want to put the time in lol they want easy and effective *cough black adam* :rolleyes:
I would’ve made Deadshot’s F2 hit mid and just remove the 50/50 so you could at least take him out up close so that he could remain a zoner. But it looks like they’re heading in the direction of Deadshot being more of a hybrid, he could use a little help.
 

Neeko

Noob
You aren't telling me anything new. Previous patch he had that same shitty d1, an abundance of highs, and the lowest damage out of the top 5 and guess what? He was still considered a top 5 character in the game. Very weak argument.
How is it a weak argument? He had all that before patch and in my opinion shoulda been barely in top 5. Now that his mines do less. He builds less meter and his lunge is extremely punishable i think thats pushed him out of top 5. He's still right under top 5 but no longer in it
 

Neeko

Noob
Redhood has loads of ways to answer breath on block to the point where it's not really a mind game anymore. He does a good job of keeping super out of the air (up star, jumping air laser and checking with trait shot, trait shot checks in general) he gets to throw out a free mine after blocking every sweeping laser on block which limits superman's options due to a mine being in his face so with all of that the zoning supes puts out isn' too intimidating and when red hood corners supes it's lights out. Lunge is huge up close in that MU (you still aren't punishing MB lunge and Redhood should only be lunging when he has bar anyway)
I've played plenty of very good superman players who never go high enough for up stars to hit them. So that really just leaves me throwing mines as an answer to their air lasers that they just jump over and continue doin lasers. Not really sure how red hood beats superman. It's a 5-5 for sure.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I've played plenty of very good superman players who never go high enough for up stars to hit them. So that really just leaves me throwing mines as an answer to their air lasers that they just jump over and continue doin lasers. Not really sure how red hood beats superman. It's a 5-5 for sure.
I mean hey I guess every high level red hood and superman I've talked to that says Red hood wins are wrong then yea?
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
How is it a weak argument? He had all that before patch and in my opinion shoulda been barely in top 5. Now that his mines do less. He builds less meter and his lunge is extremely punishable i think thats pushed him out of top 5. He's still right under top 5 but no longer in it
Meterbuild nerf barely affects him because he still has decent enough stagger pressure to build meter with, blocking mine still builds him good meter, and he doesn't need meter in the same utility as someone like deadshot. Despite meterbuild nerf, he can play exactly the same as before unlike Deadshot.

Lunge nerf is a slap on the wrist. MB lunge (the only Lunge you should ever be using) is still safe so have fun. If you are using regular lunge, you deserve to be punished.

Batman and Deadshot nerfs completely changed their gameplay which is why they moved down the tier list. Hood's nerfs however, changed absolutely nothing about how he plays. You could literally go in and play him without knowing there was a patch and not notice much of a difference. And since previous patch Hood was Top 5 and he essentially stayed the same as previous patch, he is still top 5.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Meterbuild nerf barely affects him because he still has decent enough stagger pressure to build meter with, blocking mine still builds him good meter, and he doesn't need meter in the same utility as someone like deadshot. Despite meterbuild nerf, he can play exactly the same as before unlike Deadshot.

Lunge nerf is a slap on the wrist. MB lunge (the only Lunge you should ever be using) is still safe so have fun. If you are using regular lunge, you deserve to be punished.

Batman and Deadshot nerfs completely changed their gameplay which is why they moved down the tier list. Hood's nerfs however, changed absolutely nothing about how he plays. You could literally go in and play him without knowing there was a patch and not notice much of a difference. And since previous patch Hood was Top 5 and he essentially stayed the same as previous patch, he is still top 5.
Batman's nerfs didn't change his gameplan. He is literally in the same boat as Red Hood.