Getting to the bottom of damage, who takes the least and who takes the most.

This numbers system we have in this game over percents is really fucked, so I've decided to create a list showing just how big and deceptive the damage differences are. I am doing as my control group b12~df2MB, b3, j3, b1, b123 with Supergirl on every character in the game with the full calculation of the hard numbers into what percent is actually being taken off.

Let's just start with the 5 main characters that get used the most probably. Superman, Supergirl, Redhood, Batman and Black Adam.

Superman = 1050 - 306.93 = 29.1%
Supergirl = 1100 - 317.51 = 28.8%
Batman = 1250 - 341.03 = 27.2%
Red Hood = 1250 - 341.03 = 27.2%
Black Adam = 1050 - 306.93 = 29.1%

So Supergirl, Batman and Redhood are all tankier than fucking Superman? What the fuck?

So, I looked into other characters. Here's all the grapplers minus Hellboy since I'm doing this on PC currently.

Scarecrow = 27.2%
Bane = 26.4%
Swamp Thing = 27.4%

Here's my favorite. Darkseid = 28.5%. That's right, less damage than Supergirl or Superman and not much worse than the Grapplers. Deadshot has the same defense as FUCKING BATMAN. HE'S TANKIER THAN SWAMP THING.

More research to come on this. I have theories I need to test. Just thought I'd share what a shit show this games damage logic is. So out of what i listed, if you want to test damage, you want to use Batman, Red Hood, Deadshot or Scarecrow. They take the least damage out of everyone listed here.

Sooooo, we still use superman as the dummy basically?

xKhaoTik said:

Sooooo, we still use superman as the dummy basically?

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No, Superman is one of the most fragile characters in the game. People used Superman because in game, the damage numbers were the lowest on him, but he actually takes the most damage out of everyone I listed.

Chernyy Volk said:

No, Superman is one of the most fragile characters in the game. People used Superman because in game, the damage numbers were the lowest on him, but he actually takes the most damage out of everyone I listed.

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I think everybody uses Superman because he's just the default place for the cursor to appear.

Yeah, damage values are biased asf in this game.

Also, did you divide the damage by total health for your findings?

Chernyy Volk said:

This numbers system

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Epic work, man. Thanks SO much for this.
Where does Starfire stand?

GLoRToR said:

Epic work, man. Thanks SO much for this.
Where does Starfire stand?

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Let me test this real quick.

Chernyy Volk said:

Let me test this real quick.

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@GLoRToR Starfire is in the Superman tier of taking the most damage.

One thing that could also be a factor is that supergirl's df2 hits multiple times so maybe on some characters you hit them maybe one or two more times than you did another?
You should do a combo with a single hitting special move, maybe superman f23 F2 breath, b3, j3, bf3

Because Darkseid should always be taking the most damage

I know aquaman takes a ton of damage percentage wise.

Kooron Nation said:

One thing that could also be a factor is that supergirl's df2 hits multiple times so maybe on some characters you hit them maybe one or two more times than you did another?
You should do a combo with a single hitting special move, maybe superman f23 F2 breath, b3, j3, bf3

Because Darkseid should always be taking the most damage

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I never held breath. I got 100% consistent results. If you don't hold it breath only hits once.

@Kooron Nation I ran a different test just to show you. This time I'm doing b3, j3, 111~bf3 with Beetle on Superman, Batman and then Darkseid.

Superman = 32%
Batman = 29.9%
Darkseid = 31.3%

Darkseid is one of the tankier characters in the game.

Chernyy Volk said:

@Kooron Nation I ran a different test just to show you. This time I'm doing b3, j3, 111~bf3 with Beetle on Superman, Batman and then Darkseid.

Superman = 32%
Batman = 29.9%
Darkseid = 31.3%

Darkseid is one of the tankier characters in the game.

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Everything I thought I knew is a lie, so why everyone do their bnb's on Superman in practice lol? Start doing them on Batman or someone that takes even less

Kooron Nation said:

Everything I thought I knew is a lie, so why everyone do their bnb's on Superman in practice lol? Start doing them on Batman or someone that takes even less

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Yeah, CW, Deadshot and Batman are the most ideal dummys after you run the calculations.

Kooron Nation said:

Everything I thought I knew is a lie, so why everyone do their bnb's on Superman in practice lol? Start doing them on Batman or someone that takes even less

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People used Superman because the actual damage number displayed on screen is the least in the game along with all other characters with 1050 health. It LOOKED like he was ideal.

Very interesting. Some of the % swings are kinda large when you spread it over the course of a match.

Why do characters even need to have different hp values?

Zerodegreez said:

They don't, it's just a gear thing more or less.

You could even remove stats in comp mode completely and just let it be like every other fighting game but I guess that's too complicated...

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SF has been using this since forever. Pretty sure it's supposed to be a balance thing.
Characters with the best rounded tools should be supposed to take more damage and grapplers should take less for example

Zerodegreez said:

My Bad...I'll rephrase that to 'every other NRS/Midway game.

I don't remember if stats were in IGAU. It was just simpler the way they adjusted damage before..

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No, it wasn't like this in IGAU. I think this is a great balance thing when done right but Supergirl and Catwoman taking less damage than some characters is actually super weird for example lol

EMPRESS_SunFire said:

No, it wasn't like this in IGAU. I think this is a great balance thing when done right but Supergirl and Catwoman taking less damage than some characters is actually super weird for example lol

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Yeah the way they did it is bass ackwards. They gave characters different amounts of hp but also gave them a defense rating. So they take more or less hp of damage for each hit depending on the defense rating, but then they also have different hp. So a character with high hitpoints and low defense can actually be weaker than a character with less hitpoints and a higher defense. It's needlessly confusing and hard to calculate.

Yeah, SF has done this forever, its not a bad balance mechanism, and from a design standpoint it can open up some design space.. allowing some characters to pack more punch than others in some areas but with different stun and hp values (stun is also different in SF, so some characters get dizzied faster) to compensate. Like Empress_Sunfire said characters like Grapplers usually have more life than some others, since its expected they will eat damage trying to get into range to set up their offense and such...

SF series games (4-5 at least, ones I have experience with, cant say about others) have damage scaling based on health % as well. So a 30% combo at full health will do less life % if you land it when they are lower on health.

So, back to Inj2. Its odd how they have it working. My guess is its just a side effect of how all this works from a gear perspective - stat scaling and so on -, one they probably just didnt much care to normalize for comp play, reasoning its only a few % here or there and building two entire systems was a waste of time.

I think NRs should start looking at health values to balance chars instead of removing or nerfing tools.

All the grapplers would be interesting if they all had 1500 health.

SF3 was notorious for different health values. Look at Yun vs Hugo for example. But this is not just SF. A lot of FGs use different values (health, weight) for different chars. I don't think an ASW game ever had even health distribution. Even Tekken dabbled in this back in TTT1. The issue isn't the existence; it's the application (which I don't really mind in Inj2)

It still makes sense to do combos on Superman if you are looking at numbers of damage displayed on the screen. Because they are closer to the actual percentage of damage taken by Superman, but of course if you want to know what the combo does to the tankiest characters you need to do it on them and divide by their health value to count the actual percentage.