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The Deadshot Debate.

Rebalance Deadshot?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 125 73.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 10 5.9%
  • There's no way to adjust him without defeating the purpose of his design.

    Votes: 35 20.6%

  • Total voters
    170
I think Scarecrow goes even with Deadshot, at worst. A lot of the same ideas as Catwoman are applicable with additional things like teleport reads and air feints.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Wow. Not even 24 hours of deliberation. The jury's out folks, a character whose been in the game since launch is suddenly unbreakable top tier.
People were on him week one, but we told them all to wait and see where he ends up. Now, after the first, "rebalance patch", NRS made sure that they made the point that zoning was staying by normalizing literally every character and leaving deadshot the same--just to make a point...

Well their point has been well received--that zoning will live. Unfortunately for them, the character is the problem, not the playstyle.

Ok NRS, we get it, zoning is staying now please fix the character so he's not fit for a monkey to play.

Edit: take this with a grain of salt, just seen too many deadshot counterpicks in the last 24 hrs to not be salty
 
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Saturn_

Noob
So, to establish some credentials: I called every single one of the buffs to Supergirl, my main, before it happened. Proof: https://twitter.com/Saturn_ATX/status/890001614697889792
https://www.reddit.com/r/INJUSTICE/comments/6m4edx/what_characters_do_you_think_deserve_buffs_in_the/djyy5u2/

So let's assume I've got some kind of Menat-like superpowers that let me see the future. My third eye sees the following visions:

-b12 is changed to low-mid
-Dmg scaling increased, comparable to the dmg buff Supergirl got but in reverse
-Less meter build on specials

And that's it. I have spoken! /s
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Just make his UP CLOSE game VERY WEAK!

Doctor Fate is the HARD zoner = amazing zoning game but weak up close game (no low, no overhead, very few plus frames, very few staggers, limited combo potential, etc)

NOW, Deadshot is SUPPOSED to be the TRUE zoner = INSANE zoning game but VERY weak up close game... but actually his up close game is PRETTY GOOD :eek::confused:
 

Saturn_

Noob
lmao on what you want to scale his dmg ? He already have shit dmg combos .
That's my point. Deadshot is about to be made the #1 worst dmging character in the game, by far. They're about to make b12u3 bf1 bf1 do like 180dmg (currently does 206), b12u3 go from 110 to 90, he's about to turn into a character who is incapable of hitting you for 400 and needs bar to hit 250. Combine that with losing his #1 tool (what's the point of b1 b1 staggers if he can't threaten an overhead? f2 has 16 frame startup) and he's the least scary point blank character in the game.

So far, it seems whole point is they don't want to nerf his zoning, though a nerf to meter build would do just that. I think they don't want to overnerf anyone, considering the game is pretty well balanced.
 
Why is building meter on whiff'd specials a thing?
Imo meter should be gained on block or on hit.
Well I mean using a special move is still a risk so why shouldn't it build a little meter. Let me ask why do you think building meter on whiff is so bad? My only problem is why should I block Deadshot projectiles (as long as I have the health to jump in or dash at him) in general. We've all gotten hit and try to dodge Deadshot projectiles because (at least for me) don't want to take the chip, and let him build more meter. All NRS has to do is just make it by blocking normals or projectiles you (the defender) build meter as well. If you build meter by blocking then there's nothing wrong with sacrificing your health bar for a bit to get in a do damage.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Uh-oh... Turns out all the scrubs who was yelling about spam, CoD and dead game in youtube comments since day -52 were right...
im just laughing that people are STILL on that. did i travel back in time 3 months? lmao, this characters fine.


but they'll end up nerfing them because god forbid, people cant accept a character that can legit keep them out the whole game, cry me a river, They fucked up Deathstrokes ability to zone, i pray they don't for deadshot, that is literally what he's supposed to do....
 
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itsmeMOB

Mileena's back!
I just think he needs a rework or slight changes.

Give his High Shot more recovery frames or get less meter from using it.

Change his up-close game to where he doesn't have unreactable 50/50s and you're back to square one.

I get he's supposed to be a zoner, but make him a hard zoner like Fate is. I hate this character still, but he needs a little bit of a rework. If there's 5 people in top 8 who used Deadshot, and damn near every match of it had one, then something slight has to be done about the character.
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
At this point is not even a question of balance. It's a question of the quality of the game.
This is the main issue, in my opinion. If someone watches our game on stream who is considering buying it, they will be instantly turned off by the way Deadshot plays. It just makes the game look bad. It's like the first Injustice EVO top 8 that was all Superman lasers.
 

DC King

Noob
Well I mean using a special move is still a risk so why shouldn't it build a little meter. Let me ask why do you think building meter on whiff is so bad? My only problem is why should I block Deadshot projectiles (as long as I have the health to jump in or dash at him) in general. We've all gotten hit and try to dodge Deadshot projectiles because (at least for me) don't want to take the chip, and let him build more meter. All NRS has to do is just make it by blocking normals or projectiles you (the defender) build meter as well. If you build meter by blocking then there's nothing wrong with sacrificing your health bar for a bit to get in a do damage.
It's bad cuz it's a mechanic that can get abused. Meter is a resource, and this resource helps with offense and defense. When you have chars that are able to play defensively while "spamming" projectiles the char that has no projectiles is at a disadvantage offensively and defensively. The zoner gets to sit back at range building meter even tho most of the time his/her fireballs don't hit u.

Mind u this is not the only thing i have a issue with but i just don't understand this concept. As Red Hood i can get a lil meter just by placing a mine that won't hit a damn thing...i mean c'mon man
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
well... in mkx we had op offensive meta, now in injustice 2 we get op defensive meta. i hope you all got what you wanted with this trash ass game.

Yep NRS cant seem to balance defense and offence the only game that came close was mk9 thats why i think mk9 had a way better design that mkx or inj2
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
To all the people suggesting deadshot build less meter:

Meterbuild is a mechanic universal to every character, so why would you purposely change a mechanic for one character and make it different for everyone else? For a game that has little to no universals, I'd like to keep that intact for sake of continuity.

It just would not make any sense to make the straight shot build no meter when every other character with a true projectile benefits from it. Whiffing projectiles to build meter is a legit strategy, like it or not, and the problem is the straight shot itself, not meterbuild.

Injustice 2 allows you to build 1 tick of super meter for one whiffed projectile. Are you telling me that's the problem here? No the problem is the wrist shot is way too fast on recovery right now and there's 2-3 full screen zoning moves that can contest it (with meter).
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Personally I enjoy Deadshot's zoning game. What I don't enjoy is seeing DS players not give a shit weather their opponent is afar (good zoning), close (50/50) or in the corner (over 500 dmg). NRS needs to change DS so his players are motivated to keep their opponent afar and it'll be all good.
 
It's bad cuz it's a mechanic that can get abused. Meter is a resource, and this resource helps with offense and defense. When you have chars that are able to play defensively while "spamming" projectiles the char that has no projectiles is at a disadvantage offensively and defensively. The zoner gets to sit back at range building meter even tho most of the time his/her fireballs don't hit u.

Mind u this is not the only thing i have a issue with but i just don't understand this concept. As Red Hood i can get a lil meter just by placing a mine that won't hit a damn thing...i mean c'mon man
Yes meter is "King" in this game. It does suck that zonners pretty much build extra meter when an opponent blocks a projectile, while the opponent who blocks said projectile builds no meter. Although if your opponent is "spamming" projectiles then their projectile pattern should in theory be easy for you to read and thus punish with a jump in.

As for how you feel about Deadshot here's something I learned back in Sf4 arcade edition when people were saying Yung, Yang, and Fei Long were cheap characters. If there so cheap why not try them and see how far you get. In this case since you feel Deadshot pretty much has the mechanics that he can abused see how far you get using them. That's what I'm doing and I play The Flash. It helps me understand Deadshot more and as a Deadshot player I've learned what it takes to win while keeping people away from me.
 

DC King

Noob
To all the people suggesting deadshot build less meter:

Meterbuild is a mechanic universal to every character, so why would you purposely change a mechanic for one character and make it different for everyone else? For a game that has little to no universals, I'd like to keep that intact for sake of continuity.

It just would not make any sense to make the straight shot build no meter when every other character with a true projectile benefits from it. Whiffing projectiles to build meter is a legit strategy, like it or not, and the problem is the straight shot itself, not meterbuild.

Injustice 2 allows you to build 1 tick of super meter for one whiffed projectile. Are you telling me that's the problem here? No the problem is the wrist shot is way too fast on recovery right now and there's 2-3 full screen zoning moves that can contest it (with meter).
That is not a legit strategy it's abuse of a flawed mechanic. While ur sitting back gaining 1 tic per shot a rush down char is gaining no tics inching forward.
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Maybe there's nothing wrong with the character or the game design. Maybe there's something wrong with the community for playing him a toxic way.

Or maybe the better question is zoning to strong for you? Lol
It may be that Deadshot, in his current design, is just one of the easiest characters to play at a high level. And if money is on the line, who isn't going to switch to a pocket that controls all ranges and gives strong options across them? Is Deadshot strong? Yes, but regardless he can be beat by a better player if that player uses their brain and a little bit of patience.

Does this make Deadshot bad for the game or ridiculously imbalanced? Not necessarily. But given the previous paragraph can be written about him would seem to indicate he is.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
i dont mind WC shot, i just hate the fact that his Rifle pushes back on it, He already has a trait that does that. And correct if im wrong but doesnt starfire zoning require her trait? Also does she have 50/50 poke pressure like DS too? i havent seen much of the character so somebody please enlighten me.
Her zoning is way scarier when she has trait, yeah! I personally think more Starfire players should use her stardust special way more. It does a lot of chip damage and when you cancel it into trait it's just too much. People will want to try to avoid that which means it opens up for dashes or MB rolls which all can be punished by her on a read, she has the surprise factor that makes you think twice before even moving.
Her up-close game isn't that good but she does probably twice his damage and she is pretty safe in general.
Her air normals are ridiculous tbqh.

Not saying she is Tanya/Alien level of dumb but I think she is extremely good and has the potential to be broken, and I agree with F0xy that most people are probably not using her right yet, I don't think I've seen people abuse her mindgames as much as they could.
 

DC King

Noob
Yes meter is "King" in this game. It does suck that zonners pretty much build extra meter when an opponent blocks a projectile, while the opponent who blocks said projectile builds no meter. Although if your opponent is "spamming" projectiles then their projectile pattern should in theory be easy for you to read and thus punish with a jump in.

As for how you feel about Deadshot here's something I learned back in Sf4 arcade edition when people were saying Yung, Yang, and Fei Long were cheap characters. If there so cheap why not try them and see how far you get. In this case since you feel Deadshot pretty much has the mechanics that he can abused see how far you get using them. That's what I'm doing and I play The Flash. It helps me understand Deadshot more and as a Deadshot player I've learned what it takes to win while keeping people away from me.
I won't try Deadshot cuz he's not my cup of tea. I don't get why people always say "why don't u use him and see how far u get" as if everybody likes playing the same chars as them. I never said he was cheap i just responded to ur earlier statement about the resource mechanic (meter) and wondered why NRS designed a system that can get abused.

People want Deadshot nerfed as if that will change anything. I just don't see it
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Her zoning is way scarier when she has trait, yeah! I personally think more Starfire players should use her stardust special way more. It does a lot of chip damage and when you cancel it into trait it's just too much. People will want to try to avoid that which means it opens up for dashes or MB rolls which all can be punished by her on a read, she has the surprise factor that makes you think twice before even moving.
Her up-close game isn't that good but she does probably twice his damage and she is pretty safe in general.
Her air normals are ridiculous tbqh.

Not saying she is Tanya/Alien level of dumb but I think she is extremely good and has the potential to be broken, and I agree with F0xy that most people are probably not using her right yet, I don't think I've seen people abuse her mindgames as much as they could.
hmm, im' gonna say starfire is fine, i've been using her lately, like how she feels, doesnt feel too hard to deal with tho.
 

ryublaze

Noob
While I do think Deadshot still needs a bit more nerfs, he seems to be more of a problem for the viewerbase. He still has losing match-ups just like he did pre-patch, so he's not unbeatable. Then there are some smaller things about the match-up that players aren't doing (such as taking your free dash after rifle/trick shot/db2, not dashing after mb rifle, properly whiff punishing his wakeup, character specific punishes on b12u3, taking advantage of his low damage, etc.)