The Deadshot Debate.

ExpectFlames said:

Maybe there's nothing wrong with the character or the game design. Maybe there's something wrong with the community for playing him a toxic way.

Or maybe the better question is zoning to strong for you? Lol

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What does "playing a character in a toxic way" mean?

I'm watching through top 8 again and I still can't really see the issue with WC shots. It still looks to me like it's just how stupid b1 is as a button.

Then again, Tweedy kinda brought up a good point- where WC can kinda be a problem for other zoners. I've never seen a high level Fate vs Deadshot matchup so I'm not aware of how bad that is.

LaidbackOne said:

What does "playing a character in a toxic way" mean?

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You think d's zoning isn't braindead? No insults but I think everybody has at least 1 thing about the game that's super toxic.

Doctor Angel said:

That's not a bad idea.

What if they nuke chip damage overall like they did overhead launchers in MKX?

I could live with that, even if I was 100% Floyd all day. I still have knockdown bullets, iAShot, the Kinshasa and the space it can cover, B12...yeah, that'd be all right.

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Since a lot of this topic is being discussed from an audience impressions perspective I think that this suggestion would actually make things significantly worse as a viewer without doing much to improve things from a matchup perspective. Do you know what's worse than watching a 7-3 matchup play out? Watching a 7-3 matchup play out where the outcome takes forever to reach.

AZ MotherBrain said:

Honestly I think the stiff mobility in this game is something that his zoning benefits from.

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Whether it's this game or any other fighting game you're usually going to get an emphatic 'Yes' out of me when it comes to advocating for improved mobility. In this game especially there seems to be a very definitive delineation between the 'Haves' and the 'Have not' when it comes to walk speed, dash speed and dash recovery. Improving forward walk speed for the bottom 25% of the cast in that category would IMO be a good first step. -_-

yeah,,, Fate needs an Air Dash for example.

Nerf deadshot and starfire takes his place 100% guaranteed, nothing changes, quote me.

Also, only 2 of the top 8 actually play a character that counters deadshot (me and semiij with CW), that's why there were so many mirrors

Still aids though.

You guys will always find something to complain about. Before this weekend no one was asking for deadshot nerfs. The same people claiming he's the best can be seen in other topics claiming that black Adam, or catwoman, or supergirl was the best a few weeks ago.

It's never ending. It's "after deadshot's nerfed the game will be okay" then "okay just nerf supergirl and it will be balanced" and it will continue so on and so on.

redk9 mindlessly defending Deadshot, didn't see that one coming for the 12th time

ExpectFlames said:

You think d's zoning isn't braindead? No insults but I think everybody has at least 1 thing about the game that's super toxic.

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You didnt answer my question.

A F0xy Grampa said:

Also, only 2 of the top 8 actually play a character that counters deadshot (me and semiij with CW), that's why there were so many mirrors

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I get that. What I find a bit strange is that everyone else opted for a mirror match over ___________ (insert counter-pick character here).

LaidbackOne said:

You didnt anwser my question.

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The very first line. Toxic brsindeadzonibg

Just remove the pushback on blocked MB riffle, nothing else.

I main DS and have won tournaments with him. I voted yes. He is now Tanya status bc of a few things. He is very easy to use and people can pick him up in a week. A good zoner should be very hard to use like sinestro or Zod or dr fate. His issue is the high shot. I have no idea how to fix him. If you nerf startup or recovery of high shot he loses mid screen damage that was already among the worst in the game. Nerf high shot it gives him the deadshot treatment. It has to happen. Maybe if he was harder to use and the devs stopped catering to scrubs or "we need to make everyone easy to use" this wouldn't happen.

I'm lost. Was going to travel after dlc was out but I really don't feel like I hv a char. Dr fate is unplayable for me bc of all the errors. Hell even bdon gets them and almost lost his top 8 qualifying match can honeybee bc of one.

well at least sonic did some cc matches. those t-bags were quite funny. as for DS, i don't blame the players. Money is on the line, everything is fair.

The only thing they need to do is make his strings unsafe so his upclose isn't as good. Forcing him to spend his meter to get out.

A F0xy Grampa said:

Nerf deadshot and starfire takes his place 100% guaranteed, nothing changes, quote me.

Also, only 2 of the top 8 actually play a character that counters deadshot (me and semiij with CW), that's why there were so many mirrors

Still aids though.

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This man's not even wrong. We cant forget Starfire does literally the same shit DS does.

CrazyFingers said:

This man's not even wrong. We cant forget Starfire does literally the same shit DS does.

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No, she doesn't

Darth Mao said:

No, she doesn't

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Yes, she does.

Are we playing the same character? Starfire has a move better than MB rifle because it's builds a bar and does more chip for no meter m8, her chip games stronger and her damage is higher.

Only issue is nobody plays her properly

Also, if you want some food for though about the Ds situation, he's clearly mad good, but my Cw is clearly ass, but my ass CW is good enough to dust off Sonics Deadshot.

It was open season because people either haven't expanded the meta enough to actually bother learning his counter picks, or because they play deadshot as a backup to their main who loses to him.

He outzones the zoners and has way more to work with up close. Deadshot wouldn't piss me off nearly as bad if he had the depth and same amount mental recourses required as Fate. Mentioning Fate because he's another character with extremely good zoning, it's just that the whole character isn't aids.

Darth Mao said:

No, she doesn't

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Oh I'm sorry apparently we must be not talking about Starfire.

I feel like NRS just needs make it so you get meter while blocking projectiles. I mean Deadshot builds meter pretty fast due to firing them and then extra meter when blocking, but the chip isn't that bad.

He can keep his zoning as it is and the 50/50s, hell ill even take the chip and the meterbuild, what needs to be fixed is the stagger in b1 and have more recovery in d1, give the opponent the opportunity to get some offense going mid screen, there should be a reward for the patience and the time it takes to chase him down, 20 seconds going in just to be staggered into a 50/50 that re-starts the cycle

Remove his wakeup game and hes fine . Make him like adam or cyborg on wakeup . Besides that , maybe reduce meter build on high shot and he will be fine . Summoner quan was like that , had best zoning in game , had 50/50s but lacked a good wakeup attack . Deadshot will be the same with one difference . Quan had good combo potenital and dmg and deadshot have a bit better zoning and chip dmg but weak combo dmg.

If Starfire evolves into DS2.0 after DS gets punched in the eye with the nerf-knuckles, then she will need to be fiddled with as well.

I don't think (I'm not claiming everyone is saying this) that we shouldn't address Deadshot because there is another character waiting in the wings to take is place. All the more reason imo, to flush out his predecessor and eventually change that character if need be.

F0xy brings up an interesting point in saying his CW, which he says is ass, was enough to dust Sonic's DS and that the Community isn't exploring his hard counters properly... But people have been grinding the hell out of DS since go, you can't help but do since he's so commonly played and the only real 'answer' that's arisen SO FAR, is CW... This means a Tournament player essentially has to have a CW somewhere to deal with DS, or the community as a whole has to really en-masse search out solutions we haven't found after however many months we've had the game.. so to deal with one character the entire Tournament meta has to be completely reworked and changed.. I feel like that's the definition of a broken character that needs serious work.

I like DS and want in to not only stay viable, but stay super strong. I don't want him pulled down out of probably top 1-2, I just want him made into something nthat can be dealt with by more than one or two other characters and something that doesn't 7/8 numerous MUs.

i dont mind WC shot, i just hate the fact that his Rifle pushes back on it, He already has a trait that does that. And correct if im wrong but doesnt starfire zoning require her trait? Also does she have 50/50 poke pressure like DS too? i havent seen much of the character so somebody please enlighten me.