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[Matchup Discussion] Cyborg vs. Darkseid living guide

[Matchup Discussion] Cyborg vs. Darkseid (Last edit: 7/24/2017)



The goal of this thread is to not just discuss the matchup, but to go highly in detail of nearly all possible scenarios when going against Darkseid and all the options against each. This thread is meant so that any Cyborg player will have a general gameplan to go through the match, so that making the right decisions whether in neutral, or under pressure, can be made. I hope that matchup threads like these will be used in other character forums to provide better detail for future matchup discussion.

Keep in mind, this is not set and stone. With patches, and further reevalutation from other Cyborg players and Darkseid players, this will be updated. I plan to do this for every character in the game for Cyborg, and we as a Cyborg community should go in depth for all options to have the best chance at winning. #TEAMBOOYAH

BUTTON NOTATION [I don’t know the xbox notation so someone help me out here]

PS4
1 = square,
2=triangle,
3=X,
4=circle,

XBOX
1=X
2=Y
3=A
4=B

UNDERSTANTING RANGE SYSTEM:


Range 0: (point blank range)
Range 1: (area from one backdash away)
Range 2: (area from two backdashes way)
Range 3: (area from three backdashes away)
Range 4: (area from four backdashes away)
Range 5: (area from five backdashes away)
Range 6: (Full screen, will be regarded as such)

The range system is essential to know what you as a Cyborg player should be doing or to look out for at each range of the matchup. This is to break down the matchup easier and to evaluate each option.

GENERAL GAMEPLAN SUMMARY [Subject to change]:
[TBD}

Video Reference:

NORMALS (All notes consist at range 0)[Notes will be added after the patch]

Standing 1 [7 frame startup/-6 on block/+17 on hit]
  • IF HIT: Must respect all of Darkseids options that are 23 frames or less, unless a high
  • IF BLOCKED: Check with d1, standing 2, reversal grab, or if frame perfect, f22.
  • OTHER:
Standing 2 [9 frame startup/-7 on block/+1 on hit]
  • IF HIT: Any mid/low that is 8 frames or faster is guaranteed by Darkseid
  • IF BLOCKED: Any mid/low that is 12 frames or faster is guaranteed; follow up with 23, d1, or b123
Standing 3 [14 frame startup/0 on block/+37 on hit/KND]
  • IF HIT: Leads to a knockdown but techrollable/be cautious of zoning
  • IF BLOCKED: Darkseid is +1 in this situation therefore it's best to block
  • IF BLOCKED(2): Cyborg can occasionally check with d1, since S3 pushes Cyborg just outside his d1 range
D1 [6 frame startup/-6 on block/+10 on hit]
  • IF HIT: Must respect all of darkseid's option that are 17 frames or less (unless a high attack)
  • IF BLOCKED: Can counterpoke with d1, 23, throw or even b1 if reactions are fast enough
  • OTHER: The blockstun on d1 is shorter than the move appears (you can poke ealier than you think)
D2 [9 frame startup/-9 on block/+61 on hit/ launcher]
  • IF HIT: Launcher, air tech if near death only, if not just eat the combo
  • IF BLOCKED: Punishable with 12b2 EXP, or d1 EX PF (must have good reactions to do this)
D3 [14 frame startup/-10 on block/+13 on hit/HKD]
  • IF HIT: Look for grab. If he has trait out, delay wakeup to avoid any possible setups
  • IF BLOCKED: Punishable with d1 EX PF, 2 EX PF, or 23
  • OTHER: If blocked at a range further than range 0 then it's safe. However, a follow up NB, PF, or SD will interrupt any followup button by Darkseid
F1 [ N/A]

F2 [13 frame startup/ 0 on block/ 9 on hit/high attack]
  • IF HIT: Any mid or low followup attack by darkseid that is 17 frames or faster is guaranteed
  • IF BLOCKED: Darkseid is +1 since Cyborg's d1is 7 frames vs. his 6 frame d1. Check with d1 occasionally
F3 [28 frame startup/ 0 on block/ launches on hit]
  • IF HIT: It's a launcher
  • IF BLOCKED: Technically Darkseid is +1, but after tasing in practice mode at range 0, Cyborg's d1 consistently beat's out f3; probably due to d1 short hitbox
B1 [17 frame startup/ -1 on block/ +7 on hit]
  • IF HIT: Any mid or low attack 14 frames or faster are guaranteed
  • IF BLOCKED: Neutral situation, thus check with d1 or MBF3
  • OTHER: This attack has a TON of block stun. If you input your move too early the game will eat the input so learn the timing
B2 [ N/A]

B3 [28 frame startup/ +4 on block/ launches on hit]
  • IF HIT: Launches on hit
  • IF BLOCKED: Any mid or low follow up attack that is 11 frames or is guranteed by Darkseid
  • IF BLOCKED: Darkseid's d1 does not reach at this range however, so Cyborg can follow up with Cybernetic Sweep or d3
  • OTHER: IF Darkseid follow's up with another MB B3, Cyborg can do d3 and it will whiff
STRINGS
*asterisk means there’s a gap (hasn’t been updated, will be later after patch)

11[-3 on block/+9 on hit/ ]
  • IF HIT:
  • IF BLOCKED:
112 [+3 on block/KND on hit/ ]
  • IF HIT: Sends opponent on hit back to range 3-4. Be on the look out for teleport shinnanegins
  • IF BLOCKED: Must respect any of Darkseids options under 9 frames unless a high attack
12 [-12 on block/+2 on hit/ ]
  • IF HIT:
  • IF BLOCKED:
12 1+3 [-14 on block/everses positions on hit/HKD when hit]

123 [-16 on block/KND on hit

1232 [Only comes out on hit f*ck what the game says about -17/HKD on hit]

b12 [+2 on block/ KND on hit/ ]

b1u3 [-13 on block/HKD on hit/ ]

21 [ -3 on block/+15 on hit/ ]

22 [-13 on block/+2 on hit/ ]
-Laser comes from behind…is not a crossup despite how it looks
-Full combo punishable

223 [-6 on block/KND on hit/ ]

22 1+3 [ -17 on block/ HKD on hit/send opponent to range 3 on hit]

f23 [-5 on block/launcher on hit/ ]
-f2 is a high and can be ducked under

SPECIALS

Omega beams (qcf1) [X frame startup/ X on block/ X on hit]

MB Omega Beam

Low Omega Beam

Air Omega Beam

MB Air Omega Beam

Upwards Omega Beam

EX Upwards Omega Beam

TRAIT(X) [Will be added after the patch]

SUPERMOVE [Will be added later]

SPECIAL CANCEL GAPS [will be added after the patch]
 
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HEALTH COMPARISON
Cyborg:
Darkseid: 1400 HP
PROJECTILE DAMAGE COMPARISON
Omega Beam damage: 82.76
MB Omega Beam damage: 124.14
Low Omega Beam damage: 82.76
Air Omega Beam Damage: 82.76
MB Air Omega Beam Damage: 124.14
Upwards Omega Beam Damage: 82.76
EX Upwards Omega Beam Damage: 124.14

Omega Beam chip:
MB Omega Beam chip:
Low Omega Beam chip:
Air Omega Beam chip:
MB Air Omega Beam chip:
Upwards Omega Beam chip:
EX Upwards Omega Beam chip:

TRAIT
Demon Blast damage: 62.07 (red projectile move)
Swoop Down: 93.10
Demon Dive: 93.10
Demon Charge: 62.07
Explosive Parademon: 20.67

Demon Blast chip damage:
Swoop Down chip damage:
Demon Dive chip damage:
Demon Charge chip damage:
Explosive Parademon chip damage:

Nova Blast damage: 118.26
Target acquired damage: 73.91
Sonic disrupter Damage: 118.26
Kamakazie drone damage: 103.48
Ground drone damage: 103.48

Nova Blast chip:29.57
Target Acquired chip: 24.02
Sonic Disruptor chip: 29.57
Cyborg Kamikaze chip: 27.72
Ground Roomba chip: 27.72
 
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OKIZEME [REGULAR KNOCKDOWN]
Midscreen setups vs. Flying Knee with air diagonal fireball

Midscreen setup vs. Flying Knee (ground fireball)

Midscreen setup vs. Flying Knee

Midscreen setup vs. Palm Strike
 
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OKIZEME [TECH ROLL]
Midscreen wakeup palm blast setup

Midscreen wakeup palm blast setup

Midscreen wakeup vs. flying knee



 
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ZONING AND TRADE SITUATIONS

NB vs. Omega beam at range 6
  • After ducking Omega Beam, Cyborg is guaranteed a free IAFB

Video of more trade situations by Kekoa
 
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I'm probably going to be pumping out 2-3 of these and working on them overtime. Next one is superman, then deadshot (his arguably worst matchup).

If any Cyborg players are out there, please test okizeme setups vs. Darkseid (tech roll, delayed wakeup, backdash, and delayed getup) and post them here. I will update them as soon as I can. Reversal situations and neutral situations are also helpful.

Also, any match footage of you playing Darkseid, post below as well. I want this to be a library for all knowledge on this matchup. Even if it's not the highest level of play, I can watch through and evaluate certain situations and test them later.

-Protagonist_1
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
On Xbox 1=X 2=Y 3=A 4=B

This match up feels awful, I have no clue how to approach it. His laser keep you out of the air with their crazy hit boxes and they knock you over. No clear way to outzone him and rushing him down isn't exactly a winning strategy either


I don't understand why people don't like the Deathstroke match up. Maybe I haven't played a Deathstroke who knows the mu, but it feels 5-5 to me. I'm a little bit shocked people think it's Cyborg's worst match up, I must be missing something
 
On Xbox 1=X 2=Y 3=A 4=B

This match up feels awful, I have no clue how to approach it. His laser keep you out of the air with their crazy hit boxes and they knock you over. No clear way to outzone him and rushing him down isn't exactly a winning strategy either


I don't understand why people don't like the Deathstroke match up. Maybe I haven't played a Deathstroke who knows the mu, but it feels 5-5 to me. I'm a little bit shocked people think it's Cyborg's worst match up, I must be missing something
Thanks for the notation. As for why I personally think that matchup sucks for Cyborg [Deadshot, you mentioned Deathstroke haha] his zoning counters all of Cyborg's zoning options. Air diagonal fireball isn't really an option considering it only reaches if your within ranges 1-4, and most of the time he can recover and block after shooting a high gun shot (not even considering he also has air gun shot availble, not that he really needs to use it in this matchup).

Thus he builds an insane amount of meter while Cyborg builds next to nothing. Many of the reversal situations allow Deadshot to block in time as well.This means push block and clash are already in his favor going in, despite the characters low mid screen damage.

Add to the fact that his upclose game is also better than Cyborg (his b1 hitbox as of current stuffs f2, d1, and even b1 in neutral) it's one of those matchups that straight buns [imo]. If you want to see my match footage on the matchup, I have several sets posted in the match footage thread. The real struggle isn't even the zoning, it's just trying to approach the character once within ranges 1-2. Foxy grandpa also mains deadshot, I can't imagine a Cyborg on the highest level of play going toe to toe with him [if there is, I would love to see the footage, I could learn a thing or two], but that's my 2 cents.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
@Protagonist_1 lol, yeah, Deadshot.

Usually when I play I just slowly crouch and walk into max range of my air down fireball(haha, do we have an abreviation for that? I'm just gonna call it down fireball). From there's it's basically just a guessing game and struggle for spacing. If you read a quickshot(it's easy if he's spamming them to make it hard to get in) you jump over it and hit him with down fireball. Pretty quickly he'll stop spamming those and start throwing out mid bounce shots. From here you fight with him for spacing(it's like long range footsies) and either go for a position where you can jump forward and go over a mid bounce shot(which will cause him to throw out close bounce shots, which you respond to with neutral jump down fireball) and punish with down fireball or you can stand in the area where you can jump backwards causing a mid bounce shot to miss and throw an air fireball as you land to punish(and if he starts throwing far bounce shots to catch you jumping back you now get to do neutral jump down fireball to punish). And once he stops spamming quickshot and tries react to jumps you now have opportunities to use dash, mb roll, iafb, and ground fireball etc. The bounce shots have more recovery too, so anytime he uses one and doesn't hit you get a chance to move or get a fireball on the screen. You have tools to deal with everything he does, it's just mostly on read. But the big advantage Cyborg has is that fireball does almost twice as much damage on a projectile trade, so if you get a life lead you can really slow it down and look for situations to trade and frustrate him.

Oh, and you also end up putting him in the corner a lot this way, which is weird for Cyborg but you can definitely take advantage of it. He wants you full screen so he's constantly backing up.

There's a local Deadshot player who's historically better at fighting games than me and playsthis game a lot, I'll see if I can record some matches with him this weekend. Maybe there's something he's not doing, but in the past I've done pretty well against him.

Edit: I forgot about his air shot. That one's annoying too when mixed with his other stuff, but you can blow it up with up fireball or iafb or just use the opportunity to walk under and get better positioning and if he does it when you're too close you can get under him and blow him up. In general if he's jumping a lot that doesn't work in his favor


Edit 2: I TAKE IT ALL BACK, THIS MATCH UP BLOWS. DEFINITELY NOT 5-5, ESPECIALLY ONLINE
 
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I'll try to update this thread hopefully by this Sunday. Will probably make a super girl one also, she's a pain for me at the moment.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
So being fairly new to the game, (and fighting games in general), I'm still trying to figure things out. Last night I was playing a Darkseid, who basically just did a jumping teleport move all match. I don't know if I was just getting crossed up, or if my blocking just wasn't up to snuff, but is there a way to deal with that move, whatever it was?
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
So being fairly new to the game, (and fighting games in general), I'm still trying to figure things out. Last night I was playing a Darkseid, who basically just did a jumping teleport move all match. I don't know if I was just getting crossed up, or if my blocking just wasn't up to snuff, but is there a way to deal with that move, whatever it was?
It's dumb. His air stomp is a low, so there's an overhead/low mix up you're dealing with plus depending on how you're moving it can end up being a cross up too. I suck at dealing with it, if somebody here has good advice I need it too
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
So being fairly new to the game, (and fighting games in general), I'm still trying to figure things out. Last night I was playing a Darkseid, who basically just did a jumping teleport move all match. I don't know if I was just getting crossed up, or if my blocking just wasn't up to snuff, but is there a way to deal with that move, whatever it was?
It's dumb. His air stomp is a low, so there's an overhead/low mix up you're dealing with plus depending on how you're moving it can end up being a cross up too. I suck at dealing with it, if somebody here has good advice I need it too
His air teleport had over 30 frames of recovery before he can even do anything at all out of it. Unless he covers that teleport with one of his trait demons charging/shooting/whatever at you while he's teleporting, the way to deal with it is always to proactively react with your best anti-air (like d2) or air-to-air options (j1 usually) after he reappears but before he can press any buttons.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
His air teleport had over 30 frames of recovery before he can even do anything at all out of it. Unless he covers that teleport with one of his trait demons charging/shooting/whatever at you while he's teleporting, the way to deal with it is always to proactively react with your best anti-air (like d2) or air-to-air options (j1 usually) after he reappears but before he can press any buttons.
I don't know if I'm bad or it's an online thing or what, but my d2's and air to air attempts constantly get blown up unless he's just really blatantly doing easy to read teleports
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I was trying to D2, but that didn't seem to be working. Could easily be my execution though. I'm guessing I was too slow to react. When I get a chance I'll try and set something up in training to see if I practice punishing it. Would power fist work in that situation?
 

TheRealOnlyGoonie

Hey You Guys
I was trying to D2, but that didn't seem to be working. Could easily be my execution though. I'm guessing I was too slow to react. When I get a chance I'll try and set something up in training to see if I practice punishing it. Would power fist work in that situation?
DONT D2 JUST WALKBACK
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
I was trying to D2, but that didn't seem to be working. Could easily be my execution though. I'm guessing I was too slow to react. When I get a chance I'll try and set something up in training to see if I practice punishing it. Would power fist work in that situation?
I don't know if I'm bad or it's an online thing or what, but my d2's and air to air attempts constantly get blown up unless he's just really blatantly doing easy to read teleports
Instant j1 in the direction he reappears is your most surefire option with any character probably, so anyone with a shitty d2 should probably use that as their go-to. You can record Darkseid air teleporting and doing j2/j3/stomp/whatever as soon as he's able and then practice your timing against it, but it shouldn't take long for you to realize you've got more time than you ever probably imagined to react before he can do anything. And I can't say I've actually tested it but I would bet the farm that Powerfist would work 100% of the time.

EDIT: What Goonie da God said is true too. A less proactive but surefire way to deal with teleport is walk back. Unless you're so slow to react that stomp still clips your toes that should cover you defensively. I would still recommend practicing some punishes though because once those scrubby Darkseid's who like to jump and teleport all day because people don't know what to do about it get put in their place a few times they're fuckin done lol.
 
@Johnny Based Cage I'll be sure to practice against teleport when given the chance. I usually find my d2's getting stuffed by stomp, but since it's online it could just be my reactions. Usually I'm so conditioned to look for laser, by the time they do teleport my reaction to it is delayed and get curved stomped lol.

Also, what are some of your common match openings for Darksied? I think Emperor knicks uses jump back teleport as his go-to to start the match but I haven't have the chance to watch other players Darkseid footage yet. Most online players tend to just walk back or dash backwards.