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For the Lin Kuei! Sub-Zero General Discussion

How do i deal with subzero ice clone dive kick spamming? how do i get passed it, get in and punish my opponent?

i walked under it once and got a punish but it seemed to make my opponent more agrresive.
 

Lokheit

Noob
How can you mistaken it from something legal when I said dive kick -_-
He was replying to Tanno.

About your issue... turn competitive mode on. Gear mode is NOT meant to be balanced. There is some ultra broken stuff there and the stat system is a mess anyway. You think the dive klone is hard to deal? Poison Ivy slide is a low profiling armor breaking safe advancing low that launches meterless. She could have all of her specials and her best neutral string removed and she would still be better than she is currently if she had that move. A lot of characters have something that you simply won't be able to consistently deal with.

I guess you could try a teleporting character or try to stay in the air for longer or block and punish on the fall or something, but again, gear mode is NOT a good way to compare your skill against other characters because it's really unbalanced and is meant for casual fun mostly.
 
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He was replying to Tanno.

About your issue... turn competitive mode on. Gear mode is NOT meant to be balanced. There is some ultra broken stuff there and the stat system is a mess anyway. You think the dive klone is hard to deal? Poison Ivy slide is a low profiling armor breaking safe advancing low that launches meterless. She could have all of her specials and her best neutral string removed and she would still be better than she is currently if she had that move. A lot of characters have something that you simply won't be able to consistently deal with.

I guess you could try a teleporting character or try to stay in the air for longer or block and punish on the fall or something, but again, gear mode is NOT a good way to compare your skill against other characters because it's really unbalanced and is meant for casual fun mostly.
I didnt ask if it was balanced, I ask how do you get around it.
 
I didnt ask if it was balanced, I ask how do you get around it.
With the due respect You deserve... please understand that people here only wants to deal with things that are related to the competitive scene... Gear moves are fun only like the MKXL modifier fights...

Please don't ask how to deal with non competitive broken moves that people won't get tourney results with.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I see.

Thought you meant something more serious like legal stuff lol

But yeah, there's one final video on YT from the OG Tom. Makes really really good points.
He is both right and wrong, he is right regarding the fools who keep say that it is harder now then before, but he is wrong about the position of fighting games, as these games are still more hyoed then pretty much every other competitive game and the frachises themselvrs are very popular and well known.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
He's right though in terms you can't make a REAL Profession out of NRS games Competitively. You can call yourself a Pro but you can't actually live as a Pro which is pointless. If it's ever going to be a proper Profession, players need more money and better security... especially if they lose. (Basically they need to be treated how Daigo is)
This is basically true for all fighting games from all companies, as Daigo is the only one who gets that treatment and no other NRS/WB player, Capcom player, Namco player or any other player gets it. However, you can't make any ESports game as your main profession. Yes maybe some other genres give more money but you cant do any of them forever, and fighting games are still more hyped then pretty much any other genre to get the respected spot for Esports. Every Esports player that is skilled enough and known enough is a pro, Daigo just gets an extra treatment.
 

Lokheit

Noob
This is basically true for all fighting games from all companies, as Daigo is the only one who gets that treatment and no other NRS/WB player, Capcom player, Namco player or any other player gets it. However, you can't make any ESports game as your main profession. Yes maybe some other genres give more money but you cant do any of them forever, and fighting games are still more hyped then pretty much any other genre to get the respected spot for Esports. Every Esports player that is skilled enough and known enough is a pro, Daigo just gets an extra treatment.
Saddest part is that you can make a real profession out of streaming random games and overreacting like crazy to everything for your rat-kids (not sure how they're refered to in english) audience.

Of course very few % of those who try actually make it work, but still... you look at some of them and it's like... welp...
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Saddest part is that you can make a real profession out of streaming random games and overreacting like crazy to everything for your rat-kids (not sure how they're refered to in english) audience.

Of course very few % of those who try actually make it work, but still... you look at some of them and it's like... welp...
I wouldn't call is sad but I understand your point.
 

Lokheit

Noob
I wouldn't call is sad but I understand your point.
Sad in comparison of how hard it's to make pro gaming a profession I mean, of course youtubers and twitchers can have their money but in a fair world hard working gamers would get their piece of the cake too.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Sad in comparison of how hard it's to make pro gaming a profession I mean, of course youtubers and twitchers can have their money but in a fair world hard working gamers would get their piece of the cake too.
It's not like being a successful Youtuber is super easy, it is very hard. You need to get all of the equipment for production value, get yhe right marketing and work on the editing of your vids. It is very hard. As a Youtuber myself I know it first hand, I sm no where near as successful as others but I do know what it takes.
 
With the due respect You deserve... please understand that people here only wants to deal with things that are related to the competitive scene... Gear moves are fun only like the MKXL modifier fights...

Please don't ask how to deal with non competitive broken moves that people won't get tourney results with.
The respect I deserve I just asked a question lol wtf. Instead of getting a simple reply you people mixed your own opinion in a whole paragraph. Thats what people do on the Internet. Just go by their opinions and expect their idea to be absolute.
 
The respect I deserve I just asked a question lol wtf. Instead of getting a simple reply you people mixed your own opinion in a whole paragraph. Thats what people do on the Internet. Just go by their opinions and expect their idea to be absolute.
Ok... so is sooo important to respond to a question that was answered before?. Huh!.


The answer is.... Nobody is gonna solve Your gear problem... Gear moves are unbalanced and If You can't solve it just put competitive mode on....

This is a competitive game forum.... Who cares about non competitive modes of a fighting game?... Seriously.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Ok... so is sooo important to respond to a question that has to be answered before?. Huh!.


The answer is.... Nobody is gonna solve Your gear problem... Gear moves are unbalanced and If You can't solve it just put competitive mode on....

This is a competitive game forum.... Who cares about non competitive modes of a fighting game?... Seriously.
I do, I do care about the single player content just as much the competitive ones, that is one od tge things I like about NRS games.

But yes, @FallenAngel, this is a competitive site, and we usually don"t talk about this stuff here, it us not us being rude or anything, this is just how it is.

I think you should take @Lokheit 's advice regarding the teleports. That shouls help at least in theory :)
 

Lokheit

Noob
The respect I deserve I just asked a question lol wtf. Instead of getting a simple reply you people mixed your own opinion in a whole paragraph. Thats what people do on the Internet. Just go by their opinions and expect their idea to be absolute.
I guess you could try a teleporting character or try to stay in the air for longer or block and punish on the fall or something.
I'm not against casual play and fun content to be honest and I have no problem at all with people asking about it, but I already told you what you could do against it.

It's not our fault that gear is unbalanced, to be honest when the game was announced I was a "pro-gear moves in tournament mode" zealot, one of the few here, but then I got to try them and that stuff is broken. Follow the advice I gave, those are the only options I can think of right now, I still don't own that move so I don't know the frame data but most air moves can be punished on the fall. Probably like other gear moves it's abusable specially if done as an instant air move though, if that's the case, again, unbalanced moves are unbalanced because you can't deal with them.

Go to the lab, try the options I told you with the practice mode AI options, if they work now you know how to deal with it, if they don't it's just gear mode having zero thought put in from the balancing team.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I just finished watching The War of the Gods Week 9 and DAMNIT Buffalo was on a role with Sub-Zero! He even beat both the Top 2 at EVO this year, first @HoneyBee who actually played Captain Cold (!) and later the EVO Champion Dragon 3-1, even though Dragon used Black Adam of which Sub-Zero is supposed to be good against but still.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
What you guys think about the Deadshot matchup?
From my experience Sub can deal with him. He can slide under all of Deadshot's projectile's except the Trick shot one, so he shouldn't have that much of a problem with Deadshot's projectiles.
 

Lokheit

Noob
From my experience Sub can deal with him. He can slide under all of Deadshot's projectile's except the Trick shot one, so he shouldn't have that much of a problem with Deadshot's projectiles.
The main problem is that unlike MKX, here the slide doesn't cross the max distance between characters. Also all Deadshots projectiles can be extended for multi-shots (and one works naturally like that) to ignore the klone and also hit you while you recover from the slide.

I don't have enough experience on the matchup but deadshot particularly has tools to negate SZ's counter zoning tools.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
The main problem is that unlike MKX, here the slide doesn't cross the max distance between characters. Also all Deadshots projectiles can be extended for multi-shots (and one works naturally like that) to ignore the klone and also hit you while you recover from the slide.

I don't have enough experience on the matchup but deadshot particularly has tools to negate SZ's counter zoning tools.
Yes Deadshot can answer Sub, but Sub can also answer DS for the same reasons I just mentioned. I would say it is 5-5.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
The main problem is that unlike MKX, here the slide doesn't cross the max distance between characters. Also all Deadshots projectiles can be extended for multi-shots (and one works naturally like that) to ignore the klone and also hit you while you recover from the slide.

I don't have enough experience on the matchup but deadshot particularly has tools to negate SZ's counter zoning tools.
The multi shots on his wrist cannon and low rifle are completely useless because the slide will always go underneath them.
 

Lokheit

Noob
The multi shots on his wrist cannon and low rifle are completely useless because the slide will always go underneath them.
As I said on that post if he extends he can hit you while you recover. Max distance is much bigger than in MKX so slide is only really useful at close range.