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Street Fighter V General Discussion

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
SFIV still embodied more about what *I* think makes fighting games great, than any other game I have ever played, and I play games like I play characters., Fucking pokemon. Ive got them all.

I want to play SFV today. I havent in like two weeks.
 
Oh it's not. See every time a new SF comes out the capcom community shits all over it and sings the praises of the previous game. For 4s release it was "focus attack killed footsies" sf3 was so godlike(with its 5 tournament viable characters). For 3s release it was "parry fighter 3 lul, 2 had such killer gameplay", for sf2 it was "wait there's literally unblockable infinite loops?" But sf1 sucked so we just shit on that too.

Even at the end of sf4s life all you heard was "games balance sucks ass, bet capcup gf is Elena vs Elena come quick sfv".
Ah ok thanks I see.

SFIV still embodied more about what *I* think makes fighting games great, than any other game I have ever played, and I play games like I play characters., Fucking pokemon. Ive got them all.

I want to play SFV today. I havent in like two weeks.
See, this^ is what I'm talking about in most SF IV comments I see.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Also, and I swear Ill try to keep this short..

Injustice 2 has footsies.. and a huge emphasis on them.. if you have the right character and the right MU, and that's not a bad thing necessarily.

Inj2 has a very broad range of styles and archetypes, where-as SFV doesn't. This isn't a criticism of V though. V takes a specific type of gameplay/style and kind of goes all-in on that gameplay/style. There are characters that play a little differently, and some wrinkles here and there, but by and large, its a similar style across all characters. Inj doesnt do this.. It has a huge array of styles and types, so footsies are a huge part of certain characters. Catwoman jumps to mind as an immediate example. She lives and dies by her spacing and whiff punishes and superior neutral.. But then you get a character like, say, Fate.. He isnt too concerned with that shit. He's a keep out and setup machine though.

Footsies are at the core of almost any fighting game if you back up off the concept enough. Footies are basically spacing, timing and understanding when/where/how your shit interacts with your opponents and you can apply this to shooting a wrist shot with Deadshot or a b2 with Catwoman.

Advancing mids do somewhat kill footsies, but then again, you can look at it as a very very long ranged normal, advancing or not it has a space it occupies. Im not trying to argue this concept cause I dont agree with it, just giving a counterpoint. What was Jason's string.. B22? I cant remember, but that shit was fucking half screen. THAT kills footsies.

Inj feels clunky and kind of awkward, I agree, but that goes away after a while. Part of NRS games in general seems to be understanding how to move and act fluidly in a game with canned strings and the odd startups of walks, etc etc.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Ah ok thanks I see.



See, this^ is what I'm talking about in most SF IV comments I see.

SFIV wsnt perfect.. It needed a balance patch and even though I legit dont think it was THAT bad, free DPs off FADC stuff should go. But the core the game, the speed at which it moves, and variety of VIABLE playstyles and characters, etc, were perfect. SFV moves too quickly and things resolve too quickly. I agree with Rush in that, yeah, V def showed us who was really good at whiff punishing/footsies vs who wasnt, but there is literally a difference in what practice and dedication can grant you, vs pure genetic ability, and the fact is, it takes EXCEPTIONAL reactions , beyond the ability to simply train yourself, to *really* excel in SFV footsies due to the sheer speed of the interactions.

Now, as in boxing, timing beats speed, so intelligent prediction and spacing help to mitigate that, so please dont think im saying WAH WAH I CANT BE GOOD AT THIS GAME BECAUSE IM NOT GIFTED.. nor am I boiling down peoples skill to some inherent gift of reflex. I suck because I never play and when I do play, sometimes my mind fucks off into the air and I just do shit randomly. I spent entire rounds tryiung to throw people.. or exclusively jabbing on wakeup just to see how often it will or wont work, or Ill do shit and not block at all just because. - this is likely true of a lot of people that suck. They just dont think and dont pay attention. My reflexes have always been EXTREMELY good, so I cant use that excuse, but I do feel like there is a disparity. The game simply moves too quickly in some respects for a lot of people to ever really excel at footsies and punishes and all that. Practice mitigates this, but it doesnt replace it.

And, now Ive sat here too long and have to get to the fucking store. Dammit John,.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Also, I keep saying this, but we need to try to get some time in tonight Rushdown, if you're available and I can manage to actually make it.
 

Linkuei82

Live by the sword, Die by the sword
I never got the chance to play SF IV but everywhere I hear is that it's God'd gift to fighting games. What made it so good?
It's not. I really think it's just ruby red glasses (like some say about MK9) of a SF games because some don't like how SFV is now. Funny thing is there were as much negative of IV as in V in the early stages. The only version that get's praised is Ultra. Before then the community was stuck on ST or 3S.

And no one miss the Vortex and Option select from IV.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
All this USFIV makes me want to play it. I think I miss jab hit confirms the most. Crouch tech os is kind of a double edge sword but it is kind of nice to be able to reset the neutral more often instead of constant shimmy mixups.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
It's not. I really think it's just ruby red glasses (like some say about MK9) of a SF games because some don't like how SFV is now. Funny thing is there were as much negative of IV as in V in the early stages. The only version that get's praised is Ultra. Before then the community was stuck on ST or 3S.

And no one miss the Vortex and Option select from IV.
I don't miss the OS's from IV but in V it's arguable that more than half the cast are vortex characters.

I define a vortex as a knockdown situation that can be looped back into itself and provides no real escape option outside guessing or possibly reversals.. so wrong guess and it repeats itself forever. A STRONG vortex is when even if you guess right you're still at a disadvantage.

Most of the good characters can knock you on your ass and cover every option and timing you have outside of a reversal dp. And since dps are punished so heavily, that's a dangerous situation. The advantage stays with the attacker.

Now, admittedly, the mixup part of the sfv "vortex" is a throw and only under certain situations does that continue the Vortex itself, but sfv is a corner heavy game, making it way more than relevant if the throw portion only leads to a vortex situation on a corner. And the prevelance of + on pressure means you can just push them into + frame situations and force more guesswork. Add in the high stun most characters do and you also make the throw more.terrifying and more of a legit vortex option, if you're at the threshold and a throw will cause stun.

I am NOT insulting sfv for this. It's not my favorite aspect of the game BUT I have come to accept that this is just sfv. If I don't want it, there are other games to play. So it's fine, all I'm doing is commenting on saying you won't miss the vortex stuff from sfiv... Who all even had ones outside Ibuki and Seth and.. I'm sure there were more but my mind is drawing a blank.

I know beyond a doubt, no rose tinted glasses here, that on knockdown in IV I was never as terrified as I am in V and I never lost entire rounds off a single knockdown outside of Seth occasionally. Not in the way SFv rounds can go.

I do feel like SFV is an evolution of IV and is a better game. But IV had more time to polish it's sharp edges. I have enormous hopes.for s3.
 
I don't miss the OS's from IV but in V it's arguable that more than half the cast are vortex characters.

I define a vortex as a knockdown situation that can be looped back into itself and provides no real escape option outside guessing or possibly reversals.. so wrong guess and it repeats itself forever. A STRONG vortex is when even if you guess right you're still at a disadvantage.

Most of the good characters can knock you on your ass and cover every option and timing you have outside of a reversal dp. And since dps are punished so heavily, that's a dangerous situation. The advantage stays with the attacker.

Now, admittedly, the mixup part of the sfv "vortex" is a throw and only under certain situations does that continue the Vortex itself, but sfv is a corner heavy game, making it way more than relevant if the throw portion only leads to a vortex situation on a corner. And the prevelance of + on pressure means you can just push them into + frame situations and force more guesswork. Add in the high stun most characters do and you also make the throw more.terrifying and more of a legit vortex option, if you're at the threshold and a throw will cause stun.

I am NOT insulting sfv for this. It's not my favorite aspect of the game BUT I have come to accept that this is just sfv. If I don't want it, there are other games to play. So it's fine, all I'm doing is commenting on saying you won't miss the vortex stuff from sfiv... Who all even had ones outside Ibuki and Seth and.. I'm sure there were more but my mind is drawing a blank.

I know beyond a doubt, no rose tinted glasses here, that on knockdown in IV I was never as terrified as I am in V and I never lost entire rounds off a single knockdown outside of Seth occasionally. Not in the way SFv rounds can go.

I do feel like SFV is an evolution of IV and is a better game. But IV had more time to polish it's sharp edges. I have enormous hopes.for s3.
That's definitely some rose tinted glasses lol. Yeah vortexs are more common in sfv but they do usually require you to be in the corner already so you already fucked up, but even the most convoluted of sfv mixups pale in comparison to some of the bullshit in 4. Ibuki could score a knockdown midscreen for one bar and put you in a situation way more fucked than she can in 5. In vanilla getting knocked down by akuma was literally death until ultra. I think you're forgetting all the hit behind and land in front hit in front and land behind ridiculously ambiguous stuff you could setup in 4.

Not to mention how fucked you were on defense vs solid players. Anyone with the momochi tech could turn you into fucking paste if you tried to do much as breathe.
 
Still maining Urien or are you back on the Akuma train yet now that everyone's calling him top 3?
Urien still. I dabble with a bunch of characters now but uriens the only one I can play for an extended stretch and not be bored. He just..... gets to do more than everyone else, it's not just the aegis, even his basic gameplay has more nuances than most characters.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
That's definitely some rose tinted glasses lol. Yeah vortexs are more common in sfv but they do usually require you to be in the corner already so you already fucked up, but even the most convoluted of sfv mixups pale in comparison to some of the bullshit in 4. Ibuki could score a knockdown midscreen for one bar and put you in a situation way more fucked than she can in 5. In vanilla getting knocked down by akuma was literally death until ultra. I think you're forgetting all the hit behind and land in front hit in front and land behind ridiculously ambiguous stuff you could setup in 4.

Not to mention how fucked you were on defense vs solid players. Anyone with the momochi tech could turn you into fucking paste if you tried to do much as breathe.
No.. Im not. If you genuinely think that, that's fine, but.. I dunno man. Ibuki was obnoxious, but that's one character out of the whole roster. Akuma lost his vortex in Ultra.. Shrug. Seth was a machine, I'll give you that, but he had 9 health. I also never said IV was perfect, or didn't have bullshit, like what you mentioned - the weird ambiguous shit, some character DID have vortexes - but the point I'm making here is that, to me, IV was significantly less offensive-loop oriented.
 
No.. Im not. If you genuinely think that, that's fine, but.. I dunno man. Ibuki was obnoxious, but that's one character out of the whole roster. Akuma lost his vortex in Ultra.. Shrug. Seth was a machine, I'll give you that, but he had 9 health. I also never said IV was perfect, or didn't have bullshit, like what you mentioned - the weird ambiguous shit, some character DID have vortexes - but the point I'm making here is that, to me, IV was significantly less offensive-loop oriented.
Yeah I didn't know we weren't counting previous versions. It got toned down in ultra but beforehand it was ridiculous.
 
Oh it's not. See every time a new SF comes out the capcom community shits all over it and sings the praises of the previous game. For 4s release it was "focus attack killed footsies" sf3 was so godlike(with its 5 tournament viable characters). For 3s release it was "parry fighter 3 lul, 2 had such killer gameplay", for sf2 it was "wait there's literally unblockable infinite loops?" But sf1 sucked so we just shit on that too.

Even at the end of sf4s life all you heard was "games balance sucks ass, bet capcup gf is Elena vs Elena come quick sfv".
Damn you're old :p
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Ok so i have had a long break from this game cause tekken...

And wow. This game sux now.

The lack of defence seems to have gotten worse.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Yeah but i love to have salty rage on this site. Im just not up with the current patch so it has to be the game not me:DOGE.