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UltraDavid & James Chen speak Injustice 2 at EVO on UltraChenTv (pre-EVO)

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
A) No one was saying "these broken characters need an overhaul!" If anything, @PetulantWaste and I both said the game doesn't need a big overhaul.

B) NRS community gonna cry regardless. That's every game. Every fighter has it's fair share of whiners, NRS just gets the brunt of that stereotype given how many casuals jump on board.

C) SFV only has 5 less characters than I2. Some ppl would argue the release version of SFV was/is more balanced than it is now. It's obvious you don't know much about the game. Anyone who plays both will tell you SFV is MUCH more balanced than I2. Whether it's a better fighter or not is completely subjective, but there is nothing in any recent SF game that even halfway resembles the struggle of the Swamp Thing v Deadshot MU.

D) QA does affect balance. When moves don't work properly on trade (ST's MB clone), when attacks don't hit character models properly (Robin's F3, Swamp's F233/F2, character specific combos, etc.) all tie back to testing and absolutely affect balance--even if it's not a direct A=B relationship.

No one is hating on the game. I'm simply saying that as a lifetime Capcom player (and diehard Injustice 1 and 2 player) the balance in this game is DEFINITELY an improvement, but there is still a LONG way to go before the risk/reward, meter management, damage, and matchup balance is where it needs to be for the game to stick around and have the longevity a lot of Japanese fighters have.

If you took that commentary as whining for patches, I'm sorry but you missed the point.
I said it would be my only comment on the matter, not going to have yet another long argument about the balance and such. Not because of any chance of me being wrong though.

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna respond to your post.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
I said it would be my only comment on the matter, not going to have yet another long argument about the balance and such. Not because of any chance of me being wrong though.

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna respond to your post.
Nice response about not responding--very helpful to discussion. Totally doesn't make it look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
So, let me get this straight: the only way a game can have longetivity like Japanese fighters is when the balance is at a level where matchups consisting of one character abusing 1-3 moves don't play a huge factor?


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game was played seriously for 7 years)

Interesting tools breed interesting matchups, not every character can be good, etc. etc. This talking point is old.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
So, let me get this straight: the only way a game can have longetivity like Japanese fighters is when the balance is at a level where matchups consisting of one character abusing 1-3 moves don't play a huge factor?


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game was played seriously for 7 years)

Interesting tools breed interesting matchups, not every character can be good, etc. etc. This talking point is old.
I can't find where I made the point that 20 year old Street Fighter games were more balanced than Injustice 2.

All I said is that I2 has some serious balance issues that newer Street Fighters don't have. Of course there are still bad MUs, but again the engine, stage size, accessibility, strength of zoning, and questionable frame data & move mechanic choices on behalf of NRS lend their games to have some really wonky MUs.

The game is really good. It's really balanced compared to the last few NRS releases--hell aside from the top handful and bottom handful of characters I'd say the balance adjustments need to be minimal.... but that doesn't change the fact that some scrub can counterpick and beat a better player here and there.

I'm not trashing the game by saying that SFV is more balanced. I2 is absolutely more fun and more polished. But to deny that the damage, meter usage, footsies, etc. of a handful of characters aren't a little out of whack is to deny truth bruh.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I can't find where I made the point that 20 year old Street Fighter games were more balanced than Injustice 2.
You didn't, I was referencing this.

No one is hating on the game. I'm simply saying that as a lifetime Capcom player (and diehard Injustice 1 and 2 player) the balance in this game is DEFINITELY an improvement, but there is still a LONG way to go before the risk/reward, meter management, damage, and matchup balance is where it needs to be for the game to stick around and have the longevity a lot of Japanese fighters have.
It's just a weird statement to make. Longevity has never had much to do with how the character vs. character matchups hold up at high levels of play and more based along how good the game is to play. This is not a comment on the current state of I2 or anything, but there have been games with horrible, almost no-win matchups and people play them for 20 years.

Balance from a character vs. character standpoint is always death.
 

Shaka

Tier Whore.
So, let me get this straight: the only way a game can have longetivity like Japanese fighters is when the balance is at a level where matchups consisting of one character abusing 1-3 moves don't play a huge factor?


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game is still played today, 20 years later)


(This game was played seriously for 7 years)

Interesting tools breed interesting matchups, not every character can be good, etc. etc. This talking point is old.
The NRs community is very young, they don't know or even heard about this games. Most tymer's first fighter wa MKX!
 

Shaka

Tier Whore.
I can't find where I made the point that 20 year old Street Fighter games were more balanced than Injustice 2.

All I said is that I2 has some serious balance issues that newer Street Fighters don't have. Of course there are still bad MUs, but again the engine, stage size, accessibility, strength of zoning, and questionable frame data & move mechanic choices on behalf of NRS lend their games to have some really wonky MUs.

The game is really good. It's really balanced compared to the last few NRS releases--hell aside from the top handful and bottom handful of characters I'd say the balance adjustments need to be minimal.... but that doesn't change the fact that some scrub can counterpick and beat a better player here and there.

I'm not trashing the game by saying that SFV is more balanced. I2 is absolutely more fun and more polished. But to deny that the damage, meter usage, footsies, etc. of a handful of characters aren't a little out of whack is to deny truth bruh.
SF4 isn't a 20 year old game.
 

PPJ

()
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
And finally, QA has nothing to do with Balance. QA is all about checking the general functionality of the game and finding bug in it, not checking the balance of the roster.
seems like you're one of the only few in existence that generally gets it