Yeah thought that was the case lol. Although I just watched the video and I have some notes because most of what's in that first video don't seem to actually be issues or be issues as they're made out to be but I'll explain why:
- Isn't a whiffing issue..... but the reason it's happening is because you're inputting the forward too quickly and it's counting it along with the down in the directional buffer so it's coming out as DF4 instead of F+4. You need to time your forward a little later in that combo so you're doing it as or after the trait throw animation starts, not a frame or two before. Ie something like ....3, D2~4~F where you press forward as you see the trait throw animation start.
- Robin does land on the ground when he's done spinning so I don't see what the issue is here. I also tried to replicate this in practice and it's a pretty specific spacing and timing so I honestly don't think this is as big a problem as is made out.
- The examples of his hurtbox during air DB2 being hit by stuff are pretty bad examples lol, why would you do the spin that low anyway? It's better used to catch people trying to anti air you, higher up in your jump arc where their D2 (or Joker's gunshot) will tend to whiff. Or in the cast of the Batman example it should've been done at a height where it would get over the batarang, doing it that low is obviously going to get caught by the batarang. I don't think having a smaller hurtbox and big hitbox is necessary, maybe speed it up a little at worst.
- Again, I don't see how Flash's armoured F3 beating out assassin's strike is a hitbox/hurtbox "issue". You hit the armour so Robin slowed down, and Flash's F3 stays close to the opponent while circling over them so it hit the back of Robin who at that point had slowed down.
- I think this is just a rollback thing since it's from an online match. Doesn't seem like it would happen offline unless you came up too early or something.
- Ok THIS is a whiffing issue. Robin's overheads like B213 completely missing on crouching characters is an actual whiffing issue that should be addressed.
- Tested myself, definitely another whiffing issue that should probably be addressed. But some characters j2s miss on crouching characters too so he's not alone in the air attacks whiffing on crouchers boat
- I drew something (pretty shoddily so they're not exactly replicating hitboxes in game but they're close enough) that hopefully helps you better understand why the comparison to Flash's F3 and assuming they should act the same isn't really as true. They have different movement arcs and so they will hit in different circumstances:
...Flash's F3 arc.................................................................................................Robin's F3 arc
Hopefully this makes sense, just let me know if it doesn't lol.
9. The clip of the J2 animation starting and it not hitting the opponent is actually not a Robin-specific whiffing issue. If you do a jump attack too low with any character the animation will begin but it will never get to the active frames so it looks like the attack should've hit but it didn't because you began it too low. You can try it in practice.
10. I have no idea why there's a comparison being made to Batman's J2. Robin's J2 isn't designed the same way as Batmans, BMs is designed to work as a crossup. Robin's J2 is more of an air to air type jump attack, like Scarecrows. J3 is better for crossups (although as I say this crossup J3 seems to be whiffing a lot on crouching Flash lol)
11. That D2 whiff was fucked up though, that should be fixed also.
12. If the 2nd hit of 212 is also supposed to be considered a mid then yeah that should probably be fixed too.
This is just what I noticed anyway
Reread the post you quoted, you seem to have missed the point of what I said lol
@Youphemism Thanks for the objective look and taking the time to post. I've got a few thoughts, or replies to really hammer down the intent of the video or explain it's individual parts.
1. I see, slower inputs would be a solution. Noted. This wasn't intended to be a whiff issue only video, but issues in general. I do wish what characters (not just Robin) were doing matched what the input display was showing me/ what players are actually inputting. 4 ~ forward was clearly the input, but down forward 4 came out. I don't personally think that should be the case, but I can control it so I guess it's not a big deal. Maybe it's even for the better.
2. I don't think it's too much to ask for the active hit frames to match (or even begin before) the grounded character frames, to result in either a trade or, if successfully anti air'd, to put Robin in an airborne state. That makes sense to me that a move done from the air and interrupted in the air should leave Robin punished in the air. As for recreating this in a real match, some characters have meaty or lingering low hitting moves which punish this beautifully. Notably Firestorm's close magma trap or Capt Cold's MB ice puddle. While these moves don't really suffer from hitting an airborne opponent, it'd be nice to trade with these before getting full combo punished.
3. Air db2 doesn't really go much higher than the video shows. I feel like it's a moot point considering it seldom dodges projectiles anyway. In fact I have a Firestorm buddy who actively tries to anti air it with fireball. As far as it's intended use, that's up for debate. But the fact that devs gave it a "far" version seems to imply that not only can it be used to alter jump in timing/ trajectory, but to close a distance as well. It's not a huge stretch to assume it was meant to punish sloppy zoning in such a zoning heavy game, forgive me if I'm wrong, but that's my thought process here. The first clip showed Joker firing his gun behind Robin, still hitting him for laughs. The second clip shows Robin dipping his face in and out of a batarang's path during the blade spin animation. In both cases, Robin's hurtbox is larger than it thought it would be. I suspect similar moves in NRS titles reveal how this move should/ could behave, like Takaeda's air spin kick, which afaik was not punishable in a grounded state despite landing on the ground. My issue is that I have no reason to believe this move should act any differently. All in all, while functionally inconsistent, it's still a minor issue.
4. This one was more for comedic effect. Flash hit Robin with his bum. The intent was to illustrate that many characters f3's hit fairly far behind them. Flash in particular has the ability to abuse that hitbox to cross up with f3 in the corner. Robin /can/ cross up in the corner similarly, but the set up is inconsistent and meticulous.
5. I agree, this was probably an online only/ Batman only issue. Again, it was more tongue and cheek than anything.
6. This only happens vs Black Canary (so far), and only when she's completely neutral. Any poke or movement will cause that OH to hit. Still pretty funny though.
7. This one lol it's just funny to see it in action.
8. I agree that their f3's shouldn't function exactly the same, but Robin's f3 looks pretty rough. I made a more specific video showcasing what I think are problems with it.
9. This one is my bad. I flubbed it, but still thought it looked funky.
10. I'm just poking fun at Batman here. It's easy to do because of how powerful he is right now. This is a pretty extreme example that doesn't highlight an issue that happens all too often. He just benefits a lot from a minor issue making it feel worse than it is.
11. We just want to hit like Aquaman d2 tbh l
12. Yeah, 212 is his best pressure string which already has a natural gap in it. The fact that it whiffs on a lot of characters is a nail in the coffin. This is probably his biggest issue.
Thanks again, hopefully this helps.
