Trait Tier Discussion

Chongo said:

scarecrows dot is so much better then traumatize it's ridicolous. Both of them should be placed at different tiers IMO

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^^^This. most times the payoff isn't Traumatize, it's just having the ticks to accompany your assault.

I think Swamp & Joker's are tied for worst because there's no useful way to apply either of them.

If Wonder Woman's eventually gets modded (like, add a directional input to pick which blessing you get), she's fine.

Atrocitus & Batman have Traits so integral to their gameplay that it's hard not to put them on top. Red Hood falls into that pack too, but his Trait doesn't contribute nearly as much to his overall game.

karaokelove said:

Randomness has no place in a competitive fighter. Period.

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I tolerate the randomness while watching Game & Watch 9s and Luigi Misfires/Shoryukens in Smash Bros. Shits funny

DeftMonk said:

Most seem to just put it middle of the pack which seems to be the category of"useful but not likely to be a core element to the char" which is better than"pile of crap that won't be used in any situation" a la joker/swamp. Red hood gets a projectile to mix with at long ranges a restand and chip only rivaled by aquaman out of trait.

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Corrected it to be some people

I might be the only one still thinking double klone for Sub is gonna be gear move.
If that's the case Sub's trait might be ranked just a tad lower than it would be with double klone but still really good.

What's everyone's opinion on Aquaman's trait? It's good but I think in some matchups it's kinda useless and does more harm than good.

Raiderhorn said:

I might be the only one still thinking double klone for Sub is gonna be gear move.
If that's the case Sub's trait might be ranked just a tad lower than it would be with double klone but still really good.

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It could be, but you can MB traits like Supergirl's so it could go either way. Won't know until we're told or we get our hands on 'em though.

Juggs said:

What's everyone's opinion on Aquaman's trait? It's good but I think in some matchups it's kinda useless and does more harm than good.


It could be, but you can MB traits like Supergirl's so it could go either way. Won't know until we're told or we get our hands on 'em though.

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From the outside looking in, it seems strong. Getting out of grounded combos deprives a lot of characters of their damage. Seems like a well deployed trait can avoid 15% or more damage per activation. Maybe it's harder to use in practice though.

Juggs said:

What's everyone's opinion on Aquaman's trait? It's good but I think in some matchups it's kinda useless and does more harm than good.


It could be, but you can MB traits like Supergirl's so it could go either way. Won't know until we're told or we get our hands on 'em though.

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I think it's still really good and just requires AM mains to use the slightest bit of brainpower (at which point they cry "it must be a bug!").

Which MU do you think it's useless in?

SneakyTortoise said:

I think it's still really good and just requires AM mains to use the slightest bit of brainpower (at which point they cry "it must be a bug!").

Which MU do you think it's useless in?

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Off the top of my head, Scarecrow. Not useless, but very limited in use I should say. Basically any character that can do a lot of safe pressure after the trait is activated. You're often hardly saving yourself from anything as the damage is similar.

Juggs said:

Off the top of my head, Scarecrow. Not useless, but very limited in use I should say. Basically any character that can do a lot of safe pressure after the trait is activated. You're often hardly saving yourself from anything as the damage is similar.

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But I have to disagree there. The trait shouldn't be used against Scarecrow's pressure. AM's trait still completely prevents Scarecrow going for any big damage punishes/combos off death spin, which still makes it a great tool imo.

Juggs said:

What's everyone's opinion on Aquaman's trait? It's good but I think in some matchups it's kinda useless and does more harm than good.

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Pretty fucking good still although not quite as dumb as before. Still makes some MUs like Harley totally in his favor.

MsMiharo said:

Just my impressions so far.

Meh:
Cyborg (good but really slow startup)
Brainiac (good but goes away on hit) o

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Don't you mean it goes away on hit AND BLOCK and thus it isn't even a meh level trait?)

legion666 said:

Don't you mean it goes away on hit AND BLOCK and thus it isn't even a meh level trait?)

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That's what I meant but it ain't THAT bad IMO. But you can't just throw it out unline S tier traits. It's not as bad as Swampy for instance. Underwhelming that is all.

Juggs said:

Off the top of my head, Scarecrow. Not useless, but very limited in use I should say. Basically any character that can do a lot of safe pressure after the trait is activated. You're often hardly saving yourself from anything as the damage is similar.

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AM mirrors are pretty hilarious. Trait up after being tagged by B12, and laugh (or cry) as trident rush does triple chip.

The most baffling thing to me is how NRS justifies giving a character like Black Adam such a good trait while also giving Joker what is essential a useless trait. Not only is it useless, you have to power it up THREE FUCKING TIMES just to get it to full potential. That full potential is still useless even after getting the 3 Ha's. Black Adam? Pop that shit pretty much whenever you want, brew.

Also, as a Brainiac player, his is kinda shitty, as well. At the very least he should be able to store his trait without having to hold the button down. A single tap would store the trait and tapping trait again should release it. Would be much, much easier to convert for meterless damage that way. I don't think that's much to ask.

If we're putting Batman and Atro in their own tier (S+), I don't think there's a reason Catwoman's should be any less than A.

Yes you have to work for it, but the reward is soooo good and can benefit multiple aspects of her game plan. Defensively, you gain access to another invincible wake-up that's completely safe, and can be meter burned to take your turn back despite being in your opponent's oki. Offensively, it's a free 30% combo on hit, optimizes all of her bnbs, and gives her access to another 10f mid with superior range to S3.

And I give it bonus points for having all these benefits yet not being affected by cinematic cooldown resets.

Cw has a top tier trait, 30% meterless safe wakeup, 40% if MB'd and +5 on block, all for landing a combo on you.

Good for chip, turns her b2 into a legit threat in neutral.

Imo Batman, Atrocitus, Black Adam, Superman and Aquaman have the best traits.

Batman's trait IS DEFINITELY THE BEST TRAIT IN THE GAME. It completely ignores any neutral game when out, hitstun for days, makes everything safe, recovers pretty fast, combo extender and is even effective at it's level one state. Sure you can pushblock it away but his trait still builds fast and batman doesn't need meter to hit like a tank so when it comes clash time, you're screwed. This trait needs to be reviewed and dumbed down. Activation of trait takes a bit longer? Hitstun not as good?

Atrocitus is hella dumb for sure, safe pressure, safe 50/50s, big damage and can be utilized at any range. Why I personally don't think it's better then batman's is a pushblock can negate the trait halfway and send him a good portion away from you. Still having to spend meter to negate a character with a strong trait that can capitalize without much meter needs to be reviewed but compared to batman, it's not nearly as strong.

Black Adam, the reason I don't think his is better then the top 2 is simple. He can be hit out of it and his trait requires him to be close. I feel like his trait would be more fair if the damage scaled within his combos and he received A HUGE DAMAGE NERF. 400+ of ANY CONVERSION SHOULD NOT BE OKAY!

Aquaman is simple, he slips out of grounded combos which for almost any character, is how combos start. It's essentially a get out of free jail card. Mix that and a pushblock with aquaman's dominating space control and it's pretty damn amazing trait.

Superman, he gets big damage, free pressure and mixed with his fast attacks, can break all armored moves EVEN SUPERS. It is an EXTREMELY effective trait.

Worst that I have the KNOWLEDGE OF is jokers.

While his trait in injustice one was ass, the parries themselves were very useful. Though they weren't active for very long, 1 frame high and low parries often caught people off guard while applying brain dead pressure, making them respect joker a bit more. The speed boost was useless, only useful on his amazing J2 that indeed rivaled batman and his J3 that had a deeper cross up in injustice 1.

Injustice 2 Jokers trait is just terrible. 3 levels. First one is useless. Second one is awful but better then the first and the final level is better but useless.

What made his trait somewhat effective in injustice 1, as far as speeds concerned, was that his j2 was so ambiguous, you couldn't tell how it would cross up and with his already small jump arc, the man could pounce on you for days. Same with his j3. In injustice 1, jokers j3 had such a good cross up mixed with the fact that the only way you could anti air it was if you hit jokers body and not the crowbar, made it extremely scary if he had level 3.

Injustice 2 Jokers trait takes way too long to get to the only "useful" part of the trait. It's not active for very long. His Jump 2 AND 3 were butchered and those were the only things that really benefited from the trait AT LEVEL 3.

In a nutshell, his trait is absolute ass NRS. Everything from how to get it to what to do when you have it.

Thank you for your time.

so it turns out that traits that can be used as an assist called during recovery frames and/or block strings to make moves safe, maintain pressure, or just called in neutral to cover your approach are super valuable in a fighting game -- who would have thought?

SneakyTortoise said:

But I have to disagree there. The trait shouldn't be used against Scarecrow's pressure. AM's trait still completely prevents Scarecrow going for any big damage punishes/combos off death spin, which still makes it a great tool imo.

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No I'm saying when Scarecrow combo drops because of trait, he can go into his pressure for similar damage due to how AM's trait works.

Juggs said:

No I'm saying when Scarecrow combo drops because of trait, he can go into his pressure for similar damage due to how AM's trait works.

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To comment on aquaman's trait effectiveness, I've seen aquaman players pushblock immediately after combo slip out to avoid further damage.

Honestly WW's trait would be fine as random if 4 of the 5 options actually felt meaningful.

Vengeance135 said:

To comment on aquaman's trait effectiveness, I've seen aquaman players pushblock immediately after combo slip out to avoid further damage.

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You're right, that's the best way to handle it. AM's trait is good but I don't think it's a top 5 trait.

Juggs said:

No I'm saying when Scarecrow combo drops because of trait, he can go into his pressure for similar damage due to how AM's trait works.

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Yeah, but that means, worst case scenario, AM had been punished into full combo, but is now able to fall out of it and prevent taking the damage you would have received from the pressure at the cost of a bar (which Scarecrow had to spend for the pressure too).

If we think that's bad, then that goes to show how insane his trait was before

Juggs said:

You're right, that's the best way to handle it. AM's trait is good but I don't think it's a top 5 trait.

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I could honestly see that argued for sure. The reason I put his as top 5 in my personal opinion is the wide array of tools he has to complement his trait, which makes him a complete threat. Not only do you have to worry about aquaman's overall effectiveness at every part of the screen, you have to worry about the fact that if you get a clean hit on him, he may slip out and push you away. If not for his overall effectiveness, the trait could be rendered not as effective.

SneakyTortoise said:

Yeah, but that means, worst case scenario, AM had been punished into full combo, but is now able to fall out of it and prevent taking the damage you would have received from the pressure at the cost of a bar (which Scarecrow had to spend for the pressure too).

If we think that's bad, then that goes to show how insane his trait was before

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It's not bad at all, I definitely misused the word useless. I just don't think it's a top 5 trait, top 10 for sure.