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NRS needs to fix their jacked-up cutscenes

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
First off, let me make clear that I am not one of those Injustice 2 haters to those of you who haven't seen my posts on the subject, which is probably most of you as I haven't made a lot of them because I'm VERY HAPPY with the game, I'm a big fan of it as well as it's current state of play/balance, I think NRS have done an excellent job and this is one of the most jam packed games I've played in years, let alone fighters none of which are comparing to the content you get for this game, and the DLC plan seems to have a new stream of it coming so you know it's gonna stay fresh.


However there is one massive complaint I have, not about balance or interface, just terrible, terrible gameplay design - the cutscenes. Not the scenes themselves, they are great, NRS have put a lot of time into making dope super animations, stage transitions, and lots of voice lines for clash interaction. The problem is entirely the implementation of these cutscenes, and how they interact with gameplay. Traits emptying and not recharging during the duration of a cutscene is a massive design oversight, and has a really negative impact on gameplay design, and affects different characters to different extents, often really, really silly ones.




This post was inspired by a match I saw recently of a Bane who got to activate his trait ONCE, and then spent the entire REST OF THE GAME in debuff, thanks to getting hit with a transition kill in the first round, opponent opened with super in the second, clashed his combo when he finally got in, and then he was forced to clash himself near the end of the second round to stay alive. I think this ridiculous. Cutscenes should have their intended impact on gameplay and nothing else.

Another example is Firestorm. The nature of his trait means he gets it once maybe twice per game if he's lucky and using it optimally, and usually in the second round. If I hold my clash till the instant he gets his trait, and uses it as intended - to get in and go ham - then clashing his trait completely removes it, and resets it down to level one. i.e. HE DOESNT GET TO USE HIS TRAIT AT ALL THAT GAME that he had to wait to use. Hell, even if I don't want have clash, I can hold block and spam super in the gaps, trigger a transition with a MB B3, whatever, and still end up giving him zero mileage on one of his core characters tools that game.




I honestly doubt it's even intentional, because it makes such little sense from a design perspective, and literally nobody I've ever spoken to thinks that it should work that way, and it's probably the kind of thing that might be tricky to design and maybe got left to last and didn't make it in before gold. But I just want to put it out there that we do notice, and please fix it. Unless someone has some excellent reason why it should stay other than "that's just the way it is it's not that bad", well it is for Firestorm and Bane players so unless you have a reason why it's GOOD design, in which case, do fill me in. Don't say added skillcap. It's absolutely not skillcap to get punished for losing the coinflip on stage select screen.

Sorry bout the wall of words but I wanted to make this as clear as possible. Also, fuck wifi players
 
Last edited:

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This post was inspired by a match I saw recently of a Bane who got to activate his trait ONCE, and then spent the entire REST OF THE GAME in debuff, thanks to getting hit with a transition kill in the first round, opponent opened with super in the second, clashed his combo when he finally got in, and then he was forced to clash himself near the end of the second round to stay alive.


Poor bane

He never had a chance to live

Life is hard in these streets

He just wants off debuff man

Everything was good until Donald Trump passed the Venom Tax

Those fun days of repeatedly bullying 90% of the IGAU cast with 70% damage combos are over

You can't even break Batman's back anymore because he air escapes

Can't even afford a clash these days

Maaaaaaaaaaaaann

Sadjustice 2

:(
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Injustice 2 patch wishlist honestly:

A more refined input window option in the controls for advanced players (Holding down for more than 7 frames no longer stores inputs, neither pressing db is read has d, b or b, d. Either with alternate controls or not

Alternate controls BF inputs are no longer HCF

Clash no longer resets traits (green arrow's boxing glove, etc)

Ranked is now ft2 and gear is off
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Injustice 2 patch wishlist honestly:

A more refined input window option in the controls for advanced players (Holding down for more than 7 frames no longer stores inputs, neither pressing db is read has d, b or b, d. Either with alternate controls or not

Alternate controls BF inputs are no longer HCF

Clash no longer resets traits (green arrow's boxing glove, etc)

Ranked is now ft2 and gear is off
these too
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
See sometimes I think it was an oversight but then you have character traits whichever AREN'T effected by clash cinematics, so idk.

Green Arrow losing his boxing glove Arrow he spent meter on is stupid, and Firestorm literally has no use for level 3 trait since you just immediately clash him and GG's to him.

Bane I can kind of understand, but maybe just stop the recharge during the cinematic instead of resetting the timer, so when you come back it's at the same point it was before the clash, or at least make it the level 1 debuff so it recharges quickly anyways.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
See sometimes I think it was an oversight but then you have character traits whichever AREN'T effected by clash cinematics, so idk.

Green Arrow losing his boxing glove Arrow he spent meter on is stupid, and Firestorm literally has no use for level 3 trait since you just immediately clash him and GG's to him.

Bane I can kind of understand, but maybe just stop the recharge during the cinematic instead of resetting the timer, so when you come back it's at the same point it was before the clash, or at least make it the level 1 debuff so it recharges quickly anyways.
yeah to be a clear, just pausing the timers of traits and having them come out the same is the way to go
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
I'm to the point where Im not certain I wanna play anymore due to the cinematic tax on traits. Most of the roster I was interested in have traits that use meters or have debuffs, or use stocks. All of which are affected by this cinematic tax on them. Captain Cold, Black Canary, Dr. Fate, Bane...even my Green Arrow gets hit with loss of meter from boxing glove arrow disappearing. Its more than a little ridiculous to have movesets entirely dependent upon its trait in a game where traits can be removed so easily. Im getting close to just ditching and goin back to Killer Instinct and KOF 14 again even though I'm enjoying gear collecting. It just feels like theres no point to it.

If its making so many characters feel pointless to choose for tournaments imagine how bad it feels for casual players who have an even harder time adapting online than strategic FGC veterans who are also upset by it.

It was an absolutely terrible idea to implement traits resetting after cinematic moves. Ruins all your efforts to stock, charge or setup tools for a LOT of the cast who are at an absolute disadvantage without them.

See sometimes I think it was an oversight but then you have character traits whichever AREN'T effected by clash cinematics, so idk.
Its no oversight. Its fully intentional. 16 bit confirmed cinematics are supposed to cheat folks out of trait as a feature over in a conversation on Neogaf when I brought it up in the first week. I called it garbage then and its no less garbage now.
 

trufenix

bye felicia


Poor bane

He never had a chance to live

Life is hard in these streets

He just wants off debuff man

Everything was good until Donald Trump passed the Venom Tax

Those fun days of repeatedly bullying 90% of the IGAU cast with 70% damage combos are over

You can't even break Batman's back anymore because he air escapes

Can't even afford a clash these days

Maaaaaaaaaaaaann

Sadjustice 2

:(
I wish I could favorite this post and reread it everytime I lose an entire health bar to guessing wrong on armored tick grabs.
 
It's awful for Bane. Absolutely awful. It hurts him more than anyone else. Get a Cinematic when he goes Level 3 Venom, or better yet, just as lvl 3 debuff is about to expire.

The ULTIMATE prize is cinematic just as lvl 3 debuff is about to expire followed by another cinematic when it is about to expire again followed by Bane's own clash (because he's about to die).
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Its no oversight. Its fully intentional. 16 bit confirmed cinematics are supposed to cheat folks out of trait as a feature over in a conversation on Neogaf when I brought it up in the first week. I called it garbage then and its no less garbage now.
I don't really believe he said this. Could you provide link?
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
I don't really believe he said this. Could you provide link?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1342244&page=129
Page 129 look for shaowebb posts on cinematics then read the responses. Osu Sixteen Bit confirms it.
I believe sixteen bit is OSU sixteen bit on neogaf these days btw. The other user "sixteen-bit" I believe is someone else. Feel free to confirm if you'd like but the conversation was there on May 28th when I first thought it was a glitch with Green Arrow. I would LOVE to be wrong on this but Im pretty certain from things he's said about working for NRS that osu sixteen bit is your guy.

Its not a glitch. Cinematic tax was intentional.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Doesn't empty Catwoman stacks of course, so you bet its intentional design to punish some characters with cutscenes, but not the favourites. Retarded. Just absolutely soap bar
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Doesn't empty Catwoman stacks of course, so you bet its intentional design to punish some characters with cutscenes, but not the favourites.
Its why I refer to it as Cinematic Tax. Some folks are in a different tax bracket it seems. If your a player in the cinemaverse you tend to get Cinematic Tax Breaks for being more famous and being worth more money to WB lol.

#trumpsamerica
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
It's intentional. Same in Injustice 1.

Conserving you clash for when you need to reset the opponent's trait, giving up corner position advantage with a transition for the same; these are part of the meta game.
 
It's intentional. Same in Injustice 1.

Conserving you clash for when you need to reset the opponent's trait, giving up corner position advantage with a transition for the same; these are part of the meta game.
That would be acceptable if everyone was punished in the same way or it was even possible to punish them.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1342244&page=129
Page 129 look for shaowebb posts on cinematics then read the responses. Osu Sixteen Bit confirms it.
I believe sixteen bit is OSU sixteen bit on neogaf these days btw. The other user "sixteen-bit" I believe is someone else. Feel free to confirm if you'd like but the conversation was there on May 28th when I first thought it was a glitch with Green Arrow. I would LOVE to be wrong on this but Im pretty certain from things he's said about working for NRS that osu sixteen bit is your guy.

Its not a glitch. Cinematic tax was intentional.
Eh, at the risk of sounding like an apologist, I'll say that you can't really interpret him saying "It's not a bug" as "it's an intentional interaction that we specifically chose to work a certain way with X characters." Could probably be other things, like how certain traits were coded causes clash etc. to interact with them different ways.