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Injustice 2 is a Problematic Game

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JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
Who actually threatened to ban you? Or is this just more hyperbole aimed at starting a row in the hopes of getting people riled up.
You appeared to infer that you would.

But patience isn't unlimited; and so if you continue bashing the developer, the game and the staff, you'll find yourself at the end of it soon.
There are mature ways to create topics for any line of discussion you can think of. But even I have tolerance limits for people that are constantly clickbating and screaming for attention because things aren't perfectly to their liking.
I have to disagree that this post is "click-baiting and screaming", which is how you seemed to passive-agressively say he would be on the receiving end of a banning if he continued. His wording was poor, but his points were either facts or at least arguable opinions, that were fueled with frustration and anger. Legitmately, the input window issue is such a glaring problem, I have no problem with the devs getting a little heavy criticism for it, because they've been mum on it since the Beta. If that's what passes for "bashing the devs", then damn.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Ok, then what did you mean?
I actually advocated for leaving your Cheetah thread open initially. With the reasoning that, maybe some good would come of it, as people were nice enough to come in and give helpful advice. And that potentially it could end up going somewhere positive.

Instead, you simply ignored everyone's help and continued to rag on about how it was an absolutely unwinnable MU with zero chance of outplaying your opponent to a win.

You're repeatedly using misinformation and hyperbole to try to push your talking points (case in point: your supposed ban). So while I actually had your back and proposed giving you some leeway, I'm done with that.

In the future, if you can't make your points without bashing the dev, implicating people in conspiracy theories, and filling the OPs with ridiculous levels of exaggeration and accusations, then don't expect these things to stay open.

If you want an example of how to make a pointed game critique in a mature fashion, see SneakyTortoise' thread from week 2:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/injustice-2s-biggest-downfalls-which-could-be-easily-fixed.64290/
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
The drama is bigger than the MK9 feud between US and EU some years back. I love it.

Regarding the OP, the input bug must be fixed asap, before EVO, or IGAU will be the laughing stock of 2017.

I love trying to punish something with Darkseid's f2 and see df2 come out. So good...

Aquaman, BA, Superman and Batman are fucked up and need to be nerfed. That, or buff the lower tier characters.

Game has some issues atm, sure, but its in no way, a shit game imo, Karaoke.

Regarding gear, tbh, i really dont care, since regarding competitive gameplay, its only for the looks.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I actually advocated for leaving your Cheetah thread open initially. With the reasoning that, maybe some good would come of it, as people were nice enough to come in and give helpful advice. And that potentially it could end up going somewhere positive.

Instead, you simply ignored everyone's help and continued to rag on about how it was an absolutely unwinnable MU with zero chance of outplaying your opponent to a win.

You're repeatedly using misinformation and hyperbole to try to push your talking points (case in point: your supposed ban). So while I actually had your back and proposed giving you some leeway, I'm done with that.

In the future, if you can't make your points without bashing the dev, implicating people in conspiracy theories, and filling the posts with ridiculous levels of exaggeration and accusations, then don't expect these things to stay open.

If you want an example of how to make a game critique in a mature fashion, see SneakyTortoise' thread from week 2:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/injustice-2s-biggest-downfalls-which-could-be-easily-fixed.64290/
Great. What did you mean by "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". I've asked that very simple question, what, 3 times now? Please answer it.

Also, refuting information isn't the same as ignoring it. Re-read that thread if you want. I listened to and tested every single thing that was brought up. Saying "that doesn't quite work, here's why" isn't the same as ignoring the information. You're right, though. It is annoying when people spread misinformation.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Great. What did you mean by "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". I've asked that very simple question, what, 3 times now? Please answer it.

Also, refuting information isn't the same as ignoring it. Re-read that thread if you want. I listened to and tested every single thing that was brought up. Saying "that doesn't quite work, here's why" isn't the same as ignoring the information. You're right, though. It is annoying when people spread misinformation.
He was talking about his patience. As you will meet the end of his patience. That's how I read it at least.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
I actually advocated for leaving your Cheetah thread open initially. With the reasoning that, maybe some good would come of it, as people were nice enough to come in and give helpful advice. And that potentially it could end up going somewhere positive.

Instead, you simply ignored everyone's help and continued to rag on about how it was an absolutely unwinnable MU with zero chance of outplaying your opponent to a win.

You're repeatedly using misinformation and hyperbole to try to push your talking points (case in point: your supposed ban). So while I actually had your back and proposed giving you some leeway, I'm done with that.

In the future, if you can't make your points without bashing the dev, implicating people in conspiracy theories, and filling the OPs with ridiculous levels of exaggeration and accusations, then don't expect these things to stay open.

If you want an example of how to make a pointed game critique in a mature fashion, see SneakyTortoise' thread from week 2:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/injustice-2s-biggest-downfalls-which-could-be-easily-fixed.64290/
Ayy MatureTortoise
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Great. What did you mean by "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". I've asked that very simple question, what, 3 times now? Please answer it.

Also, refuting information isn't the same as ignoring it. Re-read that thread if you want. I listened to and tested every single thing that was brought up. Saying "that doesn't quite work, here's why" isn't the same as ignoring the information. You're right, though. It is annoying when people spread misinformation.
Tremendous, you took three minutes between responses to test out esoteric match-up advice and decided it didn't work. We can tell that you're working hard.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Great. What did you mean by "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". I've asked that very simple question, what, 3 times now? Please answer it
I just explained that to you, in detail. Take a pause, stop typing, and re-read it carefully.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Tremendous, you took three minutes between responses to test out esoteric match-up advice and decided it didn't work. We can tell that you're working hard.
It doesn't matter what I say, you're going to actively look for points you can disagree with. This thread is meant to be constructive, but all you want to do is hate on everything being said. At this point I could say "You're totally right, I'm the biggest scrub of all time and am 100% in the wrong" and you'd find some way to argue with it. That's fine, but I've got better things to do than waste my time on a hopeless task.

Anyone can see that this thread has been constructive. Whether or not you agree with or disagree with anything in my original post, constructive discussion is happening. The only people derailing this thread are you and Crimson. Even those who disagree 100% are at least providing valuable feedback. Maybe try contributing to the discussion instead of shitting on anyone who doesn't share your opinion.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I just explained that to you, in detail. Take a pause, stop typing, and re-read it carefully.
Actually no, you never addressed "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". Pause, stop typing, and re-read your response carefully. Even Juggs was able to excuse your comment. If you had used that as your excuse, that would have been fine, but now that you're trying so hard to avoid it and back-peddle, I have to assume I was on the right track. If that wasn't your intention, why didn't you correct me when I brought it up as an issue immediately? Isn't part of your job as mod conflict resolution and keeping threads on track?

In any case, this aspect of the thread is the only thing toxic about it. Think about that. People were having a legitimate discussion until you posted that toxic gif, threatened to ban me, and derailed the thread. I'm done with it. For the sake of getting back on track I'm willing to ignore all of the toxic, divisive, and threatening comments you have made.

You can disagree with me all you want, but from this point onward I'll be treating you like anyone else in the thread and ignoring you until you provide any constructive discussion about the issues at hand.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Anyone can see that this thread has been constructive.
Methinks you should consult a dictionary if you believe that to be the case. In the same post in which you noted the state of the game as "insulting," you showed a blatant misunderstanding of what microtransactions are in the game, accused the game of being a "scam," and used a buzzword like "input bug" to describe your frustrations with the input system in the game. Add to that your inane and baffling conclusions about matchups after a mere three weeks, and it all adds up to a pretty convincing case of "You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about".

You won't ever find me defending the way the game accepts inputs, I think it's pretty dumb, but I'm willing to accept that it probably won't change and accept that it is what it is. I also have my own opinions about the balance and certain matchups, but I understand they are not incubated enough to form fully fledged opinions, unlike yourself.

And you're actually incorrect; if you outright stated "I'm not a very good player, but these are my opinions," then I would assume the thread, if annoying, was at least from a thread of honesty. But you have proven thread after thread that you're a dishonest actor who isn't actually interested in "constructive" discussion unless it relates to you being right.

Lastly, I would argue that I am trying to be constructive by telling you "Look, I think you see matchups a certain way because you are a low level player and don't understand the concepts people tell you," but you would refute that and state that you are above that because...reasons. Baffling.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
...No it hasn't.
It was until it got derailed. People were voicing their opinions and being generally respectful, even to those they disagreed with.

In any case, I'm back to ignoring any nonconstructive comments that aren't directly about the issues at hand.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Above all, my only massive hangup with the game is this:
ya totally agree. At first when I saw people complaining I didn't think much of it as I was playing mainly offline with friends. As soon as I went online I immediately started getting slammed when I tried for pushback. Also wtf is going on with the sheer number of BatmanS???
 
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ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
On a serious note I think any complaints about 'play to win' in this game are absurd, because NRS literally left thousands and thousands of dollars on the table by making it impossible to buy gear. Cosmetic microtransactions are a miniscule fraction of the amount of money they could have brought in, and which most developers have no hesitation bringing in by offering limited edition weapons or items or whatever in their games that you can buy for real money.

I agree that 2k source crystals to cosmetically transform one gear piece is absurd, but apart from Cheetah's ugly-ass headpieces I haven't found a need to transform any gear pieces at all. I have about 45 epics per character at this point, so if I'm in a competitive mode surely I can make something that looks cosmetically good out of that.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
My God this thread is cancer, that's saying a lot coming from a guy that parades around claiming to be the CHAOS God of Death and Disease from the Warhammer 40k Universe...

Anyway 1st off I have to say the title is really misleading to me, BC every time the word "Problematic" is used typically it is followed by something is sexist/racist/ w/e flavor of some kind blaphobic political garbage it is. Partly why I clicked it, those threads get crazy funny to read most the time. Seriously I expected the OP to say when opening the thread, Injustice perpetuates sexism and the community is toxic masculinity or some nonsense, so @karaokelove , thank you for showing me u all aren't some damned SJWs...

Anyway, to the topic at hand, OK I did run into this weird input issue last night while I was streaming, pissed me off, I would B3 to JI3 and kept getting a random air dash, MULTIPLE Times. Also, the gear shit is obnoxious there should just be separate section of the online for Gear Used Only, I play a lot of Overwatch these days and the smartest damn thing they did was make a game mode specifically for the folks that wanna play with zaney shit like having 6 Dvas on 1 team. Their Quick Play section now follows the exact rules the Comp. Mode does and it fixed the game greatly, so basically I recommend, making a separate Online Place for those that wanna play with the gear on, this select character press 1 and set parameters only to see ur opponent basically not do the same is stupid and makes things worse. Personally IDK why the hell they didn't consider this in the beginning.

To address the MUs issues, sorry IM gonna throw this card, but its true the game isn't that old at all it has had what one could call a small balance patch (that's me being generous), there is an exorbitant amount of undiscovered shit in the game and to say a tier or MU is what it is and set, is false and total BS. Hell MK9 had shit that was being discovered after MKX came out. SO no the MUs and Tiers are not set to be as Bad as some say they are. I will agree though that right now these legacy characters are the strongest simply BC they aren't very different from the previous game.

Finally, from what I gathered is there have been a multitude of just negatively charged threads from the OP rather than really any constructive works being pushed out, if that is the case then damn dude chill, right now we need to learn the game and have some fun, if u ain't having fun go play some Nier Automata and stare at 2Bs ass for a while, trust me it will calm the nerves and the game is fun AF to play. My point is maybe you need to walk away and take a break is all. Being negative all the time just drags everyone down, I get expressing your distaste, but sometimes we gotta chill.

Anyway, I been lurking a lot lately just BC I wanna learn some stuff and so far besides some minor complaints on the game I love it and do think it has a huge improvement over the last game esp. the MB in the air recover stuff always hated having 0 ability to stop a large juggle combo, look when I got time to take a piss and grab a soda and make a sandwich to come back to finish the match we gots issues buddy...

Anyway, these threads are why I missed u all, its so good to be back...

May CHAOS be with all of - Lord Nurgle
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Guys, can we all relax now? This thread from talking about the downfalls transformed into a flame war, and so we need some cold water to extinguish this fire around here. So relax now.

It's already been almost a month since the release date. We tested the chars, the game itself, the online, the multiverse and what not. It was bound to be found with a lot of downfalls, and a few ups. We're addressing to the downfalls and asking for some fixes before we can all enjoy the game. I see in Discord and in Twitter that some dudes were whining about those bugged moves and combos. They even memed them.

Every time you open a thread discussing about them, there will always be some shit talkers to derail this very thread. And I see this happening now. Instead of joking and shit talking about anything, how about we all discuss it politely like we're some buddies in someone's house relaxing and discussing stuff?

So, for now, read the OP and the rest of the posts and you'll see the real problem here.

Peace.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I also find it absolutely insane that the same people who keep pointing out how busted every other NRS game was at launch are the very people saying there can't possibly be any 7/3 or 8/2 matchups at this point. What? I'm not trying to call anyone out, that logic just does not make any sense to me.

Who said there are no 7-3s? I believe the stressing point is that there are no 8-2s or "unwinnable match ups."

Heaven forbid anyone on this site gets outplayed, eh?
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I agree with about half of the OP. The bugs need to be fixed. Period. No excuses. Input leniency has to be tighter. Period. No excuses.

Now game balance is kind of subjective, same with match up numbers. Nothing is definitive when it comes to things like this. Although, I will say it is OBVIOUS who is very strong in this game and I HOPE NRS will do something about it.

As for you @karaokelove I think you need to take a break from this game, or fighting games period. Having your attitude won't allow you to level up. The biggest word in the fgc is "adapt" and if that's something you're unwilling to do, I don't see you being at the level you'd like to be at.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Who said there are no 7-3s? I believe the stressing point is that there are no 8-2s or "unwinnable match ups."

Heaven forbid anyone on this site gets outplayed, eh?
Funny enough for me. Even when I win sets convincingly my responses consist of: "I did good, but I could have done this better or punished harder or spaced better". We're at the point where there's space for growth (not that this period ever ends mind you). These match ups I'm winning could have the pendulum swing into being losing and same for match ups I'm losing a lot in now (they could be winning ones that I misunderstand). I've experienced this meta evolution so much that I personally don't bother with numbers. They're more of a distraction/excuse mostly. If a mu is 5-5, 6-4 or 3-7 that does not help me win it and ultimately I feel like it's a crutch for many to devalue a game and pad their ego for losses.
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
@KingHippo I have no issue with anyone referring to the input window as a bug. If you try to punish with a bf special and you get a backdash, it's a bug. If you try to reversal with a special, but a completely different one comes out, it's a bug. Sure, the input window is doing what it's designed to do, in holding on to inputs for a certain period of time, but if that window is too big, and it bungles inputs then the system is broken, i.e. bugged. Where is this apologist tone coming from for something that is clearly busted?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Great. What did you mean by "you'll find yourself at the end of it soon". I've asked that very simple question, what, 3 times now? Please answer it.

Also, refuting information isn't the same as ignoring it. Re-read that thread if you want. I listened to and tested every single thing that was brought up. Saying "that doesn't quite work, here's why" isn't the same as ignoring the information. You're right, though. It is annoying when people spread misinformation.

Now you're straight up lying.

When posters pointed out that her cancels build as much meter as Batarangs, you didn't refute it.

When posters pointed out that you could use it to get in, all you had to offer was, "yeah well he still has trait!"

The talking point went from "she can't get in, 10-0," to "she can't deal with trait. 9-1"

You're so incredibly full of shit. You even said, "Batman has to make no reads" to me when I very deliberately pointed out scenarios where he does.

It's pretty dumb.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
If you read pages 1-4, seems to me like @karaokelove was being mostly reasonable with his opinion and thoughts of the game. This is coming from someone who has had his disagreements with said poster. Thread didn't "go to shit" as they say until some of you started attacking him rather than discuss the points or properly disproving his stance. We have all been around NRS games long enough to know that 7-3's very well may be on arrival. Can we see them now? I don't think so, but almost a month in the conversations can start. It doesn't take rocket science to see some of the bad MUs. Whether you put a number on it or refuse to doesn't make it any better. I love the game and it's diversity, and hope they continue working on balancing and evening the playing field for all. Nothing wrong with both.

99% of us don't like the input system. Whether you call it a bug, intentional, or whatever is irrelevant. At the end of the day it's a huge problem. It almost reminds me of the garbage MKX online where some people were actually defending it in the super thread and saying to let it go, saying that we were making too big a deal and talking about it too much, but when it was fixed with MKXL a year later those same people who defended it celebrated.

I only don't agree with the gear/moves part. I'm fine with it being how it is, and feel less is better for competitive sake. It's a system made for the casuals to grind and enjoy, not for us imo. Which is fine, since they need something to keep them playing, buying dlc, staying online, etc. While I don't agree here, I see where OP is coming from to a certain extent.

Also-

When people talk about the posters being toxic --- is exactly what they're speaking about.
without realizing that threads like yours are the ones everyone cites as justification for wanting to discuss their characters in peace.
But patience isn't unlimited; and so if you continue bashing the developer, the game and the staff, you'll find yourself at the end of it soon.


So take this as a diplomatically-worded word of caution.
Crim you know I love you man, but if this isn't threatening a ban I don't know what else you possibly are referring to here.
 
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