Buffs And Nerfs Wishlist

If there was a final patch to MK XL what changes would you want, this is what I would want. Im open to any opinions or thoughts of others

General Changes

-Run cancels should return to how they were back when the MK X online beta was released but should still use their current amount of stamina usage. So they will go back to however plus they were before they were reduced but only 1 repetition can be performed rather than 2.
I think Reo has a lot of really good amount of general changes I would like to see seeing his previous post on one of the TWM threads he made. All of the QUOTED sentences are his changes he thinks should happen that I also agree with. The following are his ideas below. Some other changes in this list are based off of his ideas as well.
-“Push block or block breaker should only use 1 bar of meter and depletes all of the users stamina only”
-“New option added to further reduce negative edge input and make button presses input require more strict timing”
-“All breathing hitbox and hurtbox changes have now been removed and are fully 100% consistent at all times with character models”
-“Teching a throw now adds full invincibility frames to both players during the full tech escape window animation”
-“Round ending victories now will ALWAYS push the two characters away from each other and place them back in neutral to prevent the next round starting with both players right in each other's faces”
-“Many overheads or certain attacks that are immune to throws and command grabs” are now properly adjusted and now susceptible to those attacks if the characters is on the ground”
-“Characters hit and launched out of CROUCH now no longer give reduced height that would be limiting many guaranteed juggle opportunities for certain characters”

Character Changes

Alien Buffs

Konjurer Buffs
DB1 and DB1 Meter Burn should have a lot less recovery frames
DB4 should have no cool down
DB4 and DB4 Meter Burn should recover a lot faster
You should be able to hold DB4 Meter Burn longer

Jason Vorhees Buffs

Universal Buffs
2,3 should be a true blockstring
Air grab in the Relentless and Unstoppable variation should have the same priority as Kotal Kahns air grab

Slasher Buffs
Standing 2 should be 9 frame start up (from 14 frame start up)
2,4 should hit more consistently so the last hit doesn't whiff on hit after standing 2
B2 should hit the opponent straight vertically rather than hitting them diagonally for easier and more consistent conversions
BF2 Meter Burn should be +1 on block (from -5 on block)
BF3 should return to how it was originally

Jason Voorhees Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
DBF2 and DBF2 Meter Burn in the Relentless and Unstoppable variation should have the same whiff recovery as Sun God Kotal Kahns command grab

Kung Lao Buffs

Universal Buffs
1,1,2,1,2,4 should have an increased hitbox
DF1 Meter Burn in the Buzzsaw and Hat Trick variation shouldn’t launch until the last hit so there is less gravity scaling for better damage

Hat Trick Buff
You should be able to do Air DD2 and DD2 Meter Burn after Teleport and Meter Burn Teleport

Buzz Saw Buffs
BF2 Meter Burn should be +6 on block (from +4 on block)
You should be able to convert off of BF2 Meter Burn on hit better
You should be able to convert off of DF2 Meter Burn (on the way down) on hit better

Kung Lao Nerf
Jump 3 should be normalized or toned down

Jax Buffs

Heavy Weapons Buffs
DB2 Meter Burn should have a dramatically increased pushback on block
BF3 should be 19 frame start up and should do 10% of damage (from 25 frame start up and 8% of damage)
BF3 Meter Burn should be 14 frame start up, 14% of damage and 5% of chip damage (from 21 frame start up, 12.14% of damage and 1.75% of chip damage
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should restand
DB3 should be 6 frame start up (from 25 frame start up)
DB3 Meter Burn should be 6 frame start up (from 21 frame start up)

Pumped Up Buffs
Less damage scaling from DD4 Meter Burn off of OTGs
DB1 Meter Burn should have 2 hits of armor

Sonya Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down
Dive kick no longer auto corrects
Dive kick no longer has any pushback for the opponent on block
Dive kick on block causes Sonya to land closer to the opponent

Kenshi Buffs

Universal Buffs
2,1 should be +2 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,1 should be 0 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,2 should be +2 on block (from -1 on block)
Standing 3 should be 10 frame start up (from 11 frame start up)
B2 in the Balanced and Possessed variation should be +5 on block (from +2 on block)
D3 should be +1 on block (from -2 on block)
4,4,1,2 should be a true blockstring
DB2 in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 3 frame start up (from 7 frame start up)
DB2 Meter Burn in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 1 frame start up (from 7 frame start up) and should absorb and heal Kenshi depending on the attacks damage that is absorbed

Kenjutsu Buffs
B2 should be 22 frame start up and should be +5 on block (from 27 frame start up and -18 on block)
BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn should have a bigger vertical hitbox to catch opponents in the air better and should be 25 recovery frames (from 42 recovery frames)
BF2 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -13 on block)
3,2,2 should be 0 on block (from -8 on block)
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 21 recovery frames (from 46 recovery frames)
BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid
Jump 1 should be +13 on hit for attacks landing on hit more consistently (from +1 on hit)
BF2 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -13 on block)

Balanced Buffs
All ranges of DB4 should be -10 on block and +15 on hit (from -49 on block and -1 on hit)
BF2 Meter Burn should have more push back on block and lead to a hard knockdown on hit
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 25 recovery frames (from 43 recovery frames)
BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid (from a high) and on block all 4 hits should come out
All ranges of DB4 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -10 on block), both hits come out on block and have increased pushback on block

Kenshi Nerfs

Possessed Nerfs
BF2 should be -17 on block (from -11 on block) and have reduced block stun
BF2 Meter Burn shouldn't have armor
Decreased hitbox on DF4 Meter Burn, it should only hit what's in front of the user

Kitana Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should be -6 on block (from -3 on block)
F2 should have a dramatic decrease in range
DB2 and DB2 Meter Burn should not be special cancelable on block
Jump 2 should be normalized or toned down

Scorpion Buffs

Inferno Buffs
DB1 should be -5 on block (from -21 block advantage)
DB1 Meter Burn should be 11 frame start up, +4 on block and be +17 on hit (from 24 frame start up, -21 on block and +4 on hit)
DB2 should be 16 frame start up, -9 on block and +9 on hit (from 28 frame start up, -19 on block and -8 on hit)
DB2 Meter Burn should be be 16 frame start up, -5 on block, have increased pushback on block and +9 on hit (from 28 frame start up, -19 on block and -1 on hit)

Hellfire Buffs
DB2 and DB2 Meter Burn should be +2 on hit (from -1 hit advantage)
DB2 Meter Burn should have no damage scaling off OTGs

Scorpion Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D4 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 3 should be normalized or toned down

Ninjutsu Nerf
F2 should be -17 on block (from -11 on block)

Hellfire Nerfs
Flame aura should have reduced active frames and be -15 on block (from -11 on block)

Sub-Zero Buffs

Unbreakable Buff
DB2 and DB2 Meter Burn should break on collision with projectiles and interactables and allow Sub-Zero to recover instantly
DB2 Meter Burn should be 1 frame start up (from 3 frame start up)
A grab should do 17% of damage (While DB3 or DB3 Meter Burn is active)

Sub-Zero Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D4 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down
Jump 3 should be normalized or toned down

Grandmaster Nerf
Ice clone should disappear after a grab is whiffed

Cassie Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should have an increased hurtbox
D4 should have an increased hurtbox

Mileena Buffs

Ravenous Buffs
DB4 should tick throw off of the second hit of F2,3 on block
DB4 should tick throw off of the second hit of F3,4 on block

Mileena Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down

Takeda Buff

Ronin Buff
DB3 Meter Burn should absorb and heal Takeda depending on the projectiles damage that is absorbed

Kung Jin Buffs

Shaolin Buff
Ending combos in DB3,D4 and DB3 Meter Burn,D4 should always land and be more consistently

Ancestral Buffs
All summoned arrows should be kept without going away
Low fire arrows should be a hard knockdown on hit
Vampiric arrows should do 4% (from 2%)
All aerial arrows should have a lot less recovery frames
All aerial arrow shots should be -6 on block and +7 on hit (from -25 on block and -3 on hit
Air DD1 should be -6 on block and +7 on hit (from -16 on block and +6 on hit)
All Meter Burn aerial arrows should be +6 on block and +14 on hit (from -6 on block and -2 on hit)
Air DD2 Meter Burn should be +6 on block and +14 on hit (from +3 on block and +7 on hit)

Bojutsu Buffs
BD3 should lead into a hard knockdown on hit and should do 12% of damage (from 9.70% of damage)

Kung Jin Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down
Dive kick and Dive Kick Meter Burn should not auto correct
DB4 should have an increased hurtbox
DB4 and Meter Burn DB4 should have an increased hurtbox on whiff

Tanya Buffs

Universal Buffs
Damage should return to how it was originally
3,4 cancel advantage should return to how it was originally

Kobu Jutsu Buffs
Make all follow ups after B1,2+4 jail on block and have less damage scaling
3,2,1 should be a true block string
DF1 Meter Burn should be +1 on block (from -4 on block)

Dragon Naginata Buffs
B2 should be -12 on block (from -22 on block)
Air D2,4 should be a true blockstring
Fix all inconsistent hitboxes on incoming jump ins after Air D2 to make combos easier to perform

Pyromancer Buffs
DF2 Meter Burn should restand but will not guarantee throws
All ground and aerial fireballs should have a lot less recovery frames
All Meter Burn aerial fireballs should have a lot less recovery frames and increased pushback on block

Bo Rai Cho Buffs

Universal Buffs
F1 in the Dragon Breath and Drunken Master variation should be a true mid
D3 should have increased range
F4 should be 15 frame start up (from 25 frame start up)

Drunken Master Buffs
DD1 should have a lot less recovery frames
DD1 should last 12 seconds before vomiting (from 10 seconds before vomiting)
It should only require 1 DD1 to perform DF1
Both hits from DB1 and DB1 Meter Burn should always connect and should have a lot less whiff recovery
Using DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should set back the vomit by one stage if DD1 was used. Say Bo drinks twice and Bo uses DF2 or Meter Burn DF2 it should set Bo back to level 1 drinking from level 2 but Bo vomits regardless of the use of DF1 or DF1 Meter Burn from level 1 drink.
Level 3 DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should be 2 separate attacks from level 0-2 DF2 and level 0-2 DF2 Meter Burn. Level 3 DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should be BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn so it doesn’t affect Bo Rai Cho’s DF2 corner combos

Leatherface Buffs

Universal Buffs
F1,2,B2 should be -6 on block (from -12 on block)
F1,2,B2 should be a hard knockdown on hit
B2 in the Killer and Pretty Lady variation should be a hard knockdown on hit and be -9 on block (from -14 on block)
Standing 3 should be 9 frame start up (from 12 frame start up)
D4 should be 10 frame start up and -10 on block (from 16 frame start up and -16 on block)

Killer Buff
DB3,2 should be 0 on hit (from -1 on hit)

Butcher Buffs
D1 into command grab should be a tick throw
DBF1 and DBF1 should be 7 frame start up (from 8 frame start up
DF4 and DF4 Meter Burn should be a hard knockdown on hit

Pretty Lady Buffs
BF2 Meter Burn and Air BF2 Meter Burn should lead to a hard knockdown and should be the same hard knockdown as a Neutral Jump Kick on hit
DB2 should be +2 on block and +12 on hit (from -4 on block and 0 on hit)
DB3 Meter Burn should be a hard knockdown on hit

Predator Buffs

Universal Buff
F4 should be +4 on block (from +2 on block)

Warrior Buffs
BF1 and BF1 Meter Burn should be a hard knockdown on hit
BF1 Meter Burn should have no push back on block

Shinnok Nerf

Universal Nerfs
B3 should be -15 on block (from -11 on block)
D4 should have an increased hurtbox

Imposter Nerf
Opponents should not be able to be grabbed during mimicry hit stun

Shinnok Buffs

Necromancer Buffs
DB1 Meter Burn OTG should have less damage scaling
BF2 should return to how it was originally where on hit it makes the opponent roll backwards
BF2 Meter should have better tracking
DF4 and DF4 Meter Burn should be a low

Kano Buffs

Universal Buffs
The last hit of 1,1,2 should be a true block string
The knife toss in DF2 Meter Burn in the Cutthroat and Commando variation shouldn't whiff on crouch blocking opponents

Commando Buffs
DB1 should be 1 frame start up (from 4 frame start up)
DB1 Meter Burn should be 1 frame start up (from 2 frame start up)
DB3 should be 1 frame start up (from 4 frame start up)
DB3 Meter Burn (from 2 frame start up)

Kano Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should have an increased hurtbox
D4 should have an increased hurtbox

Johnny Cage Buffs

Universal Buffs
1,1 should have an increased hitbox
The last hit of 1,2,1 shouldn't whiff on crouch blocking opponents in the Fisticuffs and Stunt Double variation

Fisticuffs Buffs
B1, B1,2 ,B1,2,1 and all punches continued afterwards should be 0 on block (from -3 on block)
B1,2,1 should be a true blockstring
BF1 Enhance should just only be a Meter Burn attack to prevent any unintentional Meter Burns from trying to block after being used so it should be BF1 Meter Burn similar to Flame Fist Liu Kangs DD1 Meter Burn
Red shadow Johnny and fist bump combined throws should do 20% of damage (from 17% of damage)

Stunt Double Buffs
DB2 Meter Burn should be a true block string but be +4 on block (from +5 on block)
BF4 Clone should be +3 on block (from +2 on block)
DB4 should only have 3 seconds of cool down after using each individual clone (from 6 seconds of cool down)

A-List Buffs
B2 should be +3 on block and in red shadow Johnny should be +5 on block (from -2 on block)
B2 in red shadow Johnny should be 12% of damage and 3.60% chip damage (from 9% of damage and 1.80% chip damage)
B2 (Fully charged) in red shadow Johnny should be 15% of damage and 5% chip damage (from 11% of damage and 2.20% chip damage)

Johnny Cage Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
F3 should be the same range as Kotal Kahn's B1
D4 should have an increased hurtbox

A-List Nerf
F3,4 whiff cancel should be gone

Erron Black Buffs

Universal Buffs
F1 should return to it's original start up frames
F2 should be 10 frame start up (from 14 frame start up)
F3 should have increased range

Marksman Buffs
DF1 should have an enhanced version that shoots 1 extra bullet that can be delayed, have increased pushback on block and be -12 on block
DF1 Meter Burn should have an enhanced version that shoots 2 extra bullets that can be delayed, have increased pushback from the 2 extra bullets on block and be -20 on block
DF1 and DF1 Meter Burn should be able to be aimed upward
DF1 should be 25 frame start up, be -15 on block, a hard knockdown on hit and have 45 recovery frames (from 24 frame start up, -30 on block and -142 recovery frames)
DF1 Meter Burn should be 16 frame start up, be +2 on block,have increased pushback on block, a hard knockdown on hit, and have 45 recovery frames (from 24 frame start up, -30 on block and -142 recovery frames)

Outlaw Buffs
Should have a new move, UP1 that is 9 frame start up and has the same animation as the second or third hit of B2,1,1
The second hit of F3,2+4 should be a throw but come out slower

Liu Kangs Buffs

Universal Buffs
1,1 should have an increased hitbox
The last hit of 1,1,2 should always keep the opponent next to the user

Dragon Fire Buff
BF2 Meter Burn should have an increased hitbox

Dualist Buffs
Solar BF3 should be 14 hit advantage (from 8 hit advantage)
Air Solar BF1 should be -10 on block (from -25 on block)
Soul BF1 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Soul BF1 Meter Burn (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Soul BF3 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Air Soul BF1 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)

Liu Kang Nerf

Universal Nerf
D3 should have an increased hurtbox

Ermac Buffs

Universal Buffs
B2 should be 12 frame start up (from 32 frame start up)
B2,3+4,1,2 should do 13.00% and have less damage scaling (from 8.00%)

Ermac Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 2 should be normalized or toned down

Mystic Nerfs
BF2 Meter Burn shouldnt be able to trade with opponents and lead to a full combo
BF2 Meter Burn should be -20 on block (from -6 on block)
BF2 Meter Burn should have reduced active frames
BF2 Meter Burn shouldn't hit opponents from behind Ermac

Kotal Kahn Buffs

Universal Buff
B1 should return to being a mid

Blood God Buffs
DB2 should return to it's normal active frames
Blood God should have a command grab that is 14 frame start up, the same whiff recovery as Sun God's command grab, does 7% and is +12 on hit. Blood has no good combo enders except for DB3 Meter Burn so being able to end combos in something better would help Blood God and it being a command grab would help better open up opponents. This command grab has no meter burn version so Blood God still has 0 wake up attacks.
Blood God should have 3 sets of different meter burn totems with different effects. They can be DB1 and DB3 combined for offense and health regeneration but goes away if Kotal Kahn is hit which is like a gamble for a bar. Another set should be DB2 and DB3 combined for defensive and comeback purposes but don't go away on hit. The last set should be DB1 and DB2 but it should only last 5 seconds for a mixture of offense and defense and don't go away on hit

War God Buff
DB1 should be a hard knockdown on hit and should be the same as a hard knockdown after a neutral jump kick

Kotal Kahn Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D1 should be 8 frame start up (from 6 frame start up)
D4 should be 9 frame start up (from 6 frame start up) and have an increased hurtbox
B3,2 should be 0 on block (from +2 on block)

Reptile Buffs

Universal Buffs
Should have a new move, UP1 (should look like B1 but aimed upward) that is 10 frame start up and special cancelable
Disappearing forceball glitches should be fixed completely

Noxious Buffs
In Noxious, UP1 should shoot acid similar to Acidics and should be exactly like it UP3. That includes ticks of damage, same whiff recovery, hit advantage, special cancelable and block advantage.
DF1 has a little bit of ticks that damage the opponent on block or on hit
DF1 Meter Burn area of effect should be doubled
DD3 Meter Burn should have 15 recovery frames (from -281 recovery frames)
DD3 and DD3 Meter Burn should be able to be used at the same time no matter what order it's used in

Reptile Nerfs
D4 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 4 should be normalized or toned down

Ferra/Torr Buffs

Lackey Buffs
BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn should lead into a hard knockdown on hit
DBF1 and DBF1 Meter Burn should keep the opponent next to Lackey after command grabbing someone similar to the effects of Commando Kanos command grabs on hit
Increase the hit box on DB2 Meter Burn so the second hit won’t whiff on crouch block

Vicious Buffs
DBF1 and DBF1 Meter Burn should lead into a hard knockdown on hit

Raiden Buffs

Universal Buff
F2,4,4 should be special cancelable

Master Of Storms Buffs
Static trap should be a mid when orbs are connected
All static traps should be -15 recovery frames (from -567)
All Meter Burn static traps -15 recovery frames (from -103)

Raiden Nerf

Universal Nerf
DB2 Meter Burn should be -20 on block (from -2 on block)

Quan Chi Buffs

Universal Buffs
D1 hit advantage should return to how it was originally
Make air DB2 and air DB2 Meter Burn both overheads (from mids)

Sorcerer Buff
All attacks benefitted from DD1 should drain meter rather than only depleting it

Warlock Buffs
DF1 should be +6 on hit and should be a hard knockdown on hit (from -5 on hit)
DF1 Meter Burn should be 8.00% (from 2.00% damage)
DF2 should be -6 on block (from -14 on block)
F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
The last hit of 2,1,F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit

Quan Chi Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should be -4 on block (from -1 on block)
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down

Goro Buffs

Universal Buffs
B1 should be a true mid
BF1 Meter Burn in the Kuatan Warrior and Dragon Fangs variation should negate and absorb all projectiles it comes in contact with
DBF3 should have an increased hitbox and reach farther
Telestomp and Meter Burn Telestomp should always do 9.00% like it did originally off of OTGs

Kuatan Warrior Buffs
BF2 Meter Burn should be able to let you choose which direction to throw the opponent
DD4 Meter Burn should be +2 hit advantage (from -1 hit advantage)
DD4 Meter Burn should have less damage scaling off of OTGs

Dragon Fangs Buffs
Overall chip damage with bladed gauntlet attacks should do .50% extra chip damage
BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn should be a hard knockdown on hit

Goro Nerf
B1 should be 10 frame start up

Tremor Buffs

Metallic Buffs
Launching projectiles (gold projectiles) should be -9 on block (from -20 on block)
BD1 Meter Burn (gold projectile) should have increased pushback on block, do 12% of damage (from 10% of damage) you, and negates and absorbs all projectiles it comes in contact with
Upward DB1 and DB1 Meter Burn (gold projectile) should travel slightly slower

Tremor Nerf
BF4 Meter Burn in all variations (except lava skin Tremor in Metallic) should have less recovery and the whole cast should be able to jump out of any block strings into BF4 Meter Burn

Triborg Buffs

1,1,1,2 recovery on hit should return to how it was originally
2,1,3 recovery on hit should return to how it was originally
F1,3,1 should hit the opponent vertically and lead to a hard knockdown (to help for better conversions such as making F1,3,1,DF4 or DB4 Meter Burn with Cyrax always land. It could help all the triborgs)

Cyrax Buff
2,1,2 recovery on hit should return to how it was originally
DB1 Meter Burn should be a mid (from a high)
F2,1,1 shouldn't knock the opponent away on hit it should keep them standing and be special cancelable

Cyber Sub-Zero Buffs
Should have less damage scaling on divekick combos
2,1,2 (drone buff) should be +4 on block
F1,2 and F1,2 (drone buff) should be a true block string
F1,2 (drone buff) should be +4 on block (from +1 on block)
F2 should be a mid
B2 should be +2 on block (from -10 on block)
B2 (drone buff) should be +5 on block (from -10 on block)
DB4 Meter Burn should launch with the use of the drone buff

Triborg Nerfs

Universal Nerf
D3 should be -5 on block (from -3 on block) and should have an increased hurtbox

Smoke Nerfs
B2 should have less range

Sektor Nerfs
Slightly more overall damage scaling
Air BF3 should have more whiff recovery
You shouldn't be able to delay Air BF3 Meter Burn after an opponent blocks teleport or air teleport

Way better than what @xMEECH posted lol

neveradestroyer said:

Buffs:
People finding tech and combos.

Nerfs:
Ridiculous over change patch wishlist's.

Click to expand...

A lot of these things were from a previous wish list i made so i just left a lot of it to some of the characters that could use what i put down but I may make a shorter one at some point so its not like reading a whole dictionary lol

Pumped Up Jax already has 2 hits of armor on ex gotcha

FOREVER KING JR said:

Ancestral Buffs
All summoned arrows should be kept without going away
Low fire arrows should be a hard knockdown on hit
All aerial arrows should have a lot less recovery frames

Click to expand...

If only...

I agree with the Goro buffs, one thing you forgot is that in Dragon Fangs you have to be further away from the opponent in the corner for B1 to catch. It's a dumb bug and needs to be fixed.

neveradestroyer said:

Buffs:
People finding tech and combos.

Nerfs:
Ridiculous over change patch wishlist's.

Click to expand...

Over change patch wishlist's? Wat?

FOREVER KING JR said:

Kenshi Buffs

Universal Buffs
2,1 should be +2 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,1 should be 0 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,2 should be +2 on block (from -1 on block)
Standing 3 should be 10 frame start up (from 11 frame start up)
B2 in the Balanced and Possessed variation should be +5 on block (from +2 on block)
D3 should be +1 on block (from -2 on block)
4,4,1,2 should be a true blockstring
DB2 in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 3 frame start up (from 7 frame start up)
DB2 Meter Burn in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 1 frame start up (from 7 frame start up) and should absorb and heal Kenshi depending on the attacks damage that is absorbed

Kenjutsu Buffs
B2 should be 22 frame start up and should be +5 on block (from 27 frame start up and -18 on block)
BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn should have a bigger vertical hitbox to catch opponents in the air better and should be 25 recovery frames (from 42 recovery frames)
BF2 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -13 on block)
3,2,2 should be 0 on block (from -8 on block)
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 21 recovery frames (from 46 recovery frames)
BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid
Jump 1 should be +13 on hit for attacks landing on hit more consistently (from +1 on hit)
BF2 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -13 on block)

Balanced Buffs
All ranges of DB4 should be -10 on block and +15 on hit (from -49 on block and -1 on hit)
BF2 Meter Burn should have more push back on block and lead to a hard knockdown on hit
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 25 recovery frames (from 43 recovery frames)
BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid (from a high) and on block all 4 hits should come out
All ranges of DB4 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -10 on block), both hits come out on block and have increased pushback on block

Kenshi Nerfs

Possessed Nerfs
BF2 should be -17 on block (from -11 on block) and have reduced block stun
BF2 Meter Burn shouldn't have armor
Decreased hitbox on DF4 Meter Burn, it should only hit what's in front of the user

n block causes Sonya to land closer to the opponent


Johnny Cage Buffs

Universal Buffs
1,1 should have an increased hitbox
The last hit of 1,2,1 shouldn't whiff on crouch blocking opponents in the Fisticuffs and Stunt Double variation

Fisticuffs Buffs
B1, B1,2 ,B1,2,1 and all punches continued afterwards should be 0 on block (from -3 on block)
B1,2,1 should be a true blockstring
BF1 Enhance should just only be a Meter Burn attack to prevent any unintentional Meter Burns from trying to block after being used so it should be BF1 Meter Burn similar to Flame Fist Liu Kangs DD1 Meter Burn
Red shadow Johnny and fist bump combined throws should do 20% of damage (from 17% of damage)

Stunt Double Buffs
DB2 Meter Burn should be a true block string but be +4 on block (from +5 on block)
BF4 Clone should be +3 on block (from +2 on block)
DB4 should only have 3 seconds of cool down after using each individual clone (from 6 seconds of cool down)

A-List Buffs
B2 should be +3 on block and in red shadow Johnny should be +5 on block (from -2 on block)
B2 in red shadow Johnny should be 12% of damage and 3.60% chip damage (from 9% of damage and 1.80% chip damage)
B2 (Fully charged) in red shadow Johnny should be 15% of damage and 5% chip damage (from 11% of damage and 2.20% chip damage)

Johnny Cage Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
F3 should be the same range as Kotal Kahn's B1
D4 should have an increased hurtbox

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Good list. Will comment on my characters.

Changes for Balanced are interesting. However exkarma would need invincibility upward hitbox imo.

The frame changes in 21 and 211 would be fantastic, same has 4412 gaps removed.

About fisticuffs, i think making all hits of speedbag neutral on block while removing the gap could be od in this meta. I would be happy just if whiffing issues of the string were solved, b1 was back to 9f startup, and rest of the hits -2.

Also, both fisticuffs and a-list need a mid armor. Either exflipkick gets his armor back, or ex nutpunch becomes a two bar armor launcher.

I really hope nrs makes a last effort with this game. Las patch had good intentions but some things were screwed up.

Balanced OHS is already -10 on block for all versions... >_>

In-game data for moves with different distances and projectiles are messed up.

THTB said:

Balanced OHS is already -10 on block for all versions... >_>

In-game data for moves with different distances and projectiles are messed up.

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Ohhhh crap, my B. I know the hit advantage was wrong on it though. it says 49 on one of the OHS but all of them are actually -1 on hit, i didnt know the block advantage was wrong

LaidbackOne said:

Pumped Up Jax already has 2 hits of armor on ex gotcha

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no it doesnt actually, i tested it earlier to see if they only nerfed the launhcing ex gotcha grabs but they nerfed literally all of the armored ex gotcha grabs

Alright RyRy said:

I agree with the Goro buffs, one thing you forgot is that in Dragon Fangs you have to be further away from the opponent in the corner for B1 to catch. It's a dumb bug and needs to be fixed.

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yea i know what youre talking about, hopefully NRS patches MK X after injustice 2

FOREVER KING JR said:

no it doesnt actually, i tested it earlier to see if they only nerfed the launhcing ex gotcha grabs but they nerfed literally all of the armored ex gotcha grabs

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I didn't touch Pumped Up since last year but im 99% sure they buffed Ex gotcha extreme so that it has 2 hits of armor.

https://community.wbgames.com/t5/Latest-Updates/Patch-Notes-10-4-16/ba-p/1297392

FOREVER KING JR said:

Bo Rai Cho Buffs

Universal Buffs
F1 in the Dragon Breath and Drunken Master variation should be a true mid
D3 should have increased range
F4 should be 15 frame start up (from 25 frame start up)

Drunken Master Buffs
DD1 should have a lot less recovery frames
DD1 should last 12 seconds before vomiting (from 10 seconds before vomiting)
It should only require 1 DD1 to perform DF1
Both hits from DB1 and DB1 Meter Burn should always connect and should have a lot less whiff recovery
Using DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should set back the vomit by one stage if DD1 was used. Say Bo drinks twice and Bo uses DF2 or Meter Burn DF2 it should set Bo back to level 1 drinking from level 2 but Bo vomits regardless of the use of DF1 or DF1 Meter Burn from level 1 drink.
Level 3 DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should be 2 separate attacks from level 0-2 DF2 and level 0-2 DF2 Meter Burn. Level 3 DF2 and DF2 Meter Burn should be BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn so it doesn’t affect Bo Rai Cho’s DF2 corner combos

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FINALLY! One of these lists where someone actually understands what could help this character instead of giving him meaningless shit that does nothing for him or breaks him completely.

Well done, sir.

I'll talk about my characters:

FOREVER KING JR said:

Cyrax Buff
2,1,2 recovery on hit should return to how it was originally

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I agree because there is NO sense in using 2,1,2 to end combos because even a NJK has better hit adv.

FOREVER KING JR said:

DB1 Meter Burn should be a mid (from a high)

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Nope. Cyrax's EX buzzsaw is already one of the best projectiles in the game - 8 frames, neutral or even plus on block, launches for full combo, hard knockdown on hit and its speed is SUPER fast.

FOREVER KING JR said:

F2,1,1 shouldn't knock the opponent away on hit it should keep them standing and be special cancelable

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I agree. That is a buff that i've been asking for there are months.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Liu Kangs Buffs

Universal Buffs
1,1 should have an increased hitbox

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Agreed. But there are more hitboxes that should be increased: F1,2, F4,4 and F4,4,4.

FOREVER KING JR said:

The last hit of 1,1,2 should always keep the opponent next to the user

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Agreed. This would make Dualist's midscreen combos much easier.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Dragon Fire Buff
BF2 Meter Burn should have an increased hitbox

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Agreed. But there is one more hitbox that should be increased: Bicycle Kick MB so it no longer whiffs or switches sides against certain characters crouch blocking.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Dualist Buffs
Solar BF3 should be 14 hit advantage (from 8 hit advantage)
Air Solar BF1 should be -10 on block (from -25 on block)
Soul BF1 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Soul BF1 Meter Burn (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Soul BF3 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)
Air Soul BF1 (stop sphere) should be 1 frame start up (from 34 frame start up)

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Now, that is the part that i do not agree with 90%. lol

- Low fireball should not have more hit advantage than the high fireball because the low fireball... hits low. lol

- Air fireball being -10 on block is cool, it would make Dualist's air fireball much more useful.

- Dark orbs being 1 frame on start-up would make them BROKEN. lol. One example: F2,1,3 into orb into stop is around -13. At this moment orbs have 34 start-up frames, so, you would change them from 34 frames to 1 frame... F2,1,3 into orb into stop would be +21 on block. LMAO

My Dualist's buffs:

- Healing now 0.30% while Liu Kang hols the animation and 3% when he ends it.
- Air Orb is now 10 frames faster on recovery.
- Hitbox increased on explosion of regular, low and air orb.
- Orbs does not explode on the end of scenarios anymore.
- EX Orb now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with.
- EX Orb when Yin is active no longer counts as a projectile and cannot be nenated or absorbed by any other projectile.
- Regular, air and low orb when Yin is active now absorb 1 projectile that they collide with.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Liu Kang Nerf

Universal Nerf
D3 should have an increased hurtbox

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Agreed. No more stupid low profiles.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Kenshi Buffs

Universal Buffs
2,1 should be +2 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,1 should be 0 on block (from -5 on block)
2,1,2 should be +2 on block (from -1 on block)

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Agreed. This would make those strings useful.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Standing 3 should be 10 frame start up (from 11 frame start up)

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I think 11 frames is fine. I'd like to make its hitbox slightly increased.

FOREVER KING JR said:

B2 in the Balanced and Possessed variation should be +5 on block (from +2 on block)
D3 should be +1 on block (from -2 on block)

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Not necessary.

FOREVER KING JR said:

4,4,1,2 should be a true blockstring

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Agreed because this string is so wtf at this moment. lol

FOREVER KING JR said:

DB2 in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 3 frame start up (from 7 frame start up)
DB2 Meter Burn in the Balanced and Kenjutsu variation should be 1 frame start up (from 7 frame start up) and should absorb and heal Kenshi depending on the attacks damage that is absorbed

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Totally agreed.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Kenjutsu Buffs
B2 should be 22 frame start up and should be +5 on block (from 27 frame start up and -18 on block)

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Faster? Yes. Plus on block? No, too much

FOREVER KING JR said:

BF2 and BF2 Meter Burn should have a bigger vertical hitbox to catch opponents in the air better and should be 25 recovery frames (from 42 recovery frames)

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I don't agree because Kenjutsu's anti-air should be that sword shoryuken.

FOREVER KING JR said:

BF2 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -13 on block)

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Yeah, that is necessary.

FOREVER KING JR said:

3,2,2 should be 0 on block (from -8 on block)

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It would be much more useful if 3,2,2 does not do knockdown on hit anymore and it is being special cancellable on hit and on block. (think about it being Kenjutsu's main combo starter.)

FOREVER KING JR said:

BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 21 recovery frames (from 46 recovery frames)

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Nope. Kenjutsu should not have great zoning

FOREVER KING JR said:

BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid

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Maybe... but i'd like to see it doing MUCH more damage on hit because the animation of that special is SAVAGE

FOREVER KING JR said:

Jump 1 should be +13 on hit for attacks landing on hit more consistently (from +1 on hit)

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I think it already is about +13. I think the frame data is wrong.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Balanced Buffs
All ranges of DB4 should be -10 on block and +15 on hit (from -49 on block and -1 on hit)
BF2 Meter Burn should have more push back on block and lead to a hard knockdown on hit
BF3 and BF3 Meter Burn should have 25 recovery frames (from 43 recovery frames)
BF3 Meter Burn should be a mid (from a high) and on block all 4 hits should come out
All ranges of DB4 Meter Burn should be +3 on block (from -10 on block), both hits come out on block and have increased pushback on block

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Agreed.

FOREVER KING JR said:

Possessed Nerfs
BF2 should be -17 on block (from -11 on block) and have reduced block stun
BF2 Meter Burn shouldn't have armor
Decreased hitbox on DF4 Meter Burn, it should only hit what's in front of the user

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I'd make these nerfs:

- Jump 4 normalized.
- Jump 1 normalized on Possessed.
- 4,2 now has -5 frames added on block advantage cancel.
- 4,2,1 now has -3 frames added on block advantage cancel.
- B1 is now -5 on block.
- Hitbox on EX overhead is now normalized.
- EX overhead is now 5 frames slower on recovery.
- Demonic Strike is now -5 on block and it does not have any pushback and blockstun.

pretty lady ex low chainsaw should launch in the corner please and thankyou

Bruno-NeoSpace said:

I'll talk about my characters:
I agree because there is NO sense in using 2,1,2 to end combos because even a NJK has better hit adv.
Nope. Cyrax's EX buzzsaw is already one of the best projectiles in the game - 8 frames, neutral or even plus on block, launches for full combo, hard knockdown on hit and its speed is SUPER fast.
I agree. That is a buff that i've been asking for there are months.
Agreed. But there are more hitboxes that should be increased: F1,2, F4,4 and F4,4,4.
Agreed. This would make Dualist's midscreen combos much easier.
Agreed. But there is one more hitbox that should be increased: Bicycle Kick MB so it no longer whiffs or switches sides against certain characters crouch blocking.
Now, that is the part that i do not agree with 90%. lol
- Low fireball should not have more hit advantage than the high fireball because the low fireball... hits low. lol
- Air fireball being -10 on block is cool, it would make Dualist's air fireball much more useful.
- Dark orbs being 1 frame on start-up would make them BROKEN. lol. One example: F2,1,3 into orb into stop is around -13. At this moment orbs have 34 start-up frames, so, you would change them from 34 frames to 1 frame... F2,1,3 into orb into stop would be +21 on block. LMAO
My Dualist's buffs:

- Healing now 0.30% while Liu Kang hols the animation and 3% when he ends it.
- Air Orb is now 10 frames faster on recovery.
- Hitbox increased on explosion of regular, low and air orb.
- Orbs does not explode on the end of scenarios anymore.
- EX Orb now absorbs and negates all projectiles that it comes in contact with.
- EX Orb when Yin is active no longer counts as a projectile and cannot be nenated or absorbed by any other projectile.
- Regular, air and low orb when Yin is active now absorb 1 projectile that they collide with.

Agreed. No more stupid low profiles.
Agreed. This would make those strings useful.
I think 11 frames is fine. I'd like to make its hitbox slightly increased.
Not necessary.
Agreed because this string is so wtf at this moment. lol
Totally agreed.
Faster? Yes. Plus on block? No, too much
I don't agree because Kenjutsu's anti-air should be that sword shoryuken.
Yeah, that is necessary.
It would be much more useful if 3,2,2 does not do knockdown on hit anymore and it is being special cancellable on hit and on block. (think about it being Kenjutsu's main combo starter.)
Nope. Kenjutsu should not have great zoning
Maybe... but i'd like to see it doing MUCH more damage on hit because the animation of that special is SAVAGE
I think it already is about +13. I think the frame data is wrong.
Agreed.

I'd make these nerfs:

- Jump 4 normalized.
- Jump 1 normalized on Possessed.
- 4,2 now has -5 frames added on block advantage cancel.
- 4,2,1 now has -3 frames added on block advantage cancel.
- B1 is now -5 on block.
- Hitbox on EX overhead is now normalized.
- EX overhead is now 5 frames slower on recovery.
- Demonic Strike is now -5 on block and it does not have any pushback and blockstun.

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I think cyrax would be fine if his ex saw was a mid, its his only good projectile, if it were a mid then maybe make it 10 frame start up instead so that way if cyrax is plus on block the threat of an 8 frame launching mid isnt an option. Ex hover bombs are pretty much useless projectiles, i only use them to stop people from using jumping interactables. I would normalize some of possessed teleport pressure but that goes more in depth with like strings and cancel advantage which i cant calculate. I think kenjutsu having some zoning wont hurt because his zoning tools have smaller hitboxes then ppossessed and balanced which makes sense being kenjutsu is meant to be the offensive variation. his B2 needed something though lol, similar to tremors f2. His is slow, an overhead and +2 on block so same concept with kenjutsus b2. honestly now that i think about it tremors f2 should be more plus on block hahaha. I forgot about some of liu kangs other hitbox issues you mentioned that i agree with. I didnt know much about dualist so i grabbed some ideas from other people but your list seems really good considering you sound like you have knowledge of the character and actually went against my buffs for him which shows you actually want to balance him which is really cool and what i ask from people. I like being able to have nice opinionated discussions without being butchered LOL

RequiemOfaVortex said:

pretty lady ex low chainsaw should launch in the corner please and thankyou

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that would be pretty cool to see lol, getting tripped by a chainsaw then launched but his upward chainsaw toss already launches which is why i think his low should just be a knockdown and zoning tool

some of these sound ok, some of them i don't like tho, like nerfs to KL or scorp.....nthx.

Also, why not make it so that if Grand Master Sub connects a throw, the Klone dissipates. Throws into clone are so dumb.

So...is D'vorah perfect then? Because she's not on here.

FOREVER KING JR said:

I think cyrax would be fine if his ex saw was a mid, its his only good projectile, if it were a mid then maybe make it 10 frame start up instead so that way if cyrax is plus on block the threat of an 8 frame launching mid isnt an option. Ex hover bombs are pretty much useless projectiles, i only use them to stop people from using jumping interactables. I would normalize some of possessed teleport pressure but that goes more in depth with like strings and cancel advantage which i cant calculate. I think kenjutsu having some zoning wont hurt because his zoning tools have smaller hitboxes then ppossessed and balanced which makes sense being kenjutsu is meant to be the offensive variation. his B2 needed something though lol, similar to tremors f2. His is slow, an overhead and +2 on block so same concept with kenjutsus b2. honestly now that i think about it tremors f2 should be more plus on block hahaha. I forgot about some of liu kangs other hitbox issues you mentioned that i agree with. I didnt know much about dualist so i grabbed some ideas from other people but your list seems really good considering you sound like you have knowledge of the character and actually went against my buffs for him which shows you actually want to balance him which is really cool and what i ask from people. I like being able to have nice opinionated discussions without being butchered LOL

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Yeah I'm really sorry if i was being disrespectful

- Yeah, Cyrax's EX air bombs are useless.
- I'd make Kenjutsu's B2 MUCH faster (about 15 frames) and 1% more damage (think about MK9 Kenshi's B2).

Invincible Salads said:

some of these sound ok, some of them i don't like tho, like nerfs to KL or scorp.....nthx.

Also, why not make it so that if Grand Master Sub connects a throw, the Klone dissipates. Throws into clone are so dumb.

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Or maybe make the clone cause ridiculous scaling. I'm not even fucking kidding. A move like that should cause so much scaling. Like a 20-30% combo off of it should be the max.

I really like Tanya changes

Invincible Salads said:

some of these sound ok, some of them i don't like tho, like nerfs to KL or scorp.....nthx.

Also, why not make it so that if Grand Master Sub connects a throw, the Klone dissipates. Throws into clone are so dumb.

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my solution to his dumb throw into clone was that it dissipates when he whiffs a throw like for example if you make the correct read that he is going to throw you and you neytral crouch it still doesnt go away which i think is stupid

FOREVER KING JR said:

my solution to his dumb throw into clone was that it dissipates when he whiffs a throw like for example if you make the correct read that he is going to throw you and you neytral crouch it still doesnt go away which i think is stupid

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Sub zero is by far my least favorite character to fight against, hes so dumb