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If there was one more patch...

Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Eddy Wang said:
Covert Ops has gaps on her pressure, but its not fake, and not in the slightest her worse variation, i personally think its way better than Special Forces, since it has its own launchers, better neutral game and its effectiveness its not binded to moves that requires to be out (drone) in order to be fearless.
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Special Forces is better than covert OPs. Better neutral control, better zoning, better pressure; she's better overall.
 
GOOD DRAGON

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
RequiemOfaVortex said:
Why does always happen when someone post their patch notes starts off good then turns into a pissing match very quickly
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I don't know are you contributing to the patch notes discussion?
People have different opinions about what should be changed and patched and i guess for most this could all just be for nothing anyway so...
 
TheGangstaFace

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
The_Tile said:
I'm very curious what makes you say that if you don't mind me asking
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When you play against a good Lao you're terrified to press a button. 112124 staggers can be scary. You make 1 mistake and you just got opened up for 30%+ into a hard knockdown and Lao still has potential to break armor regardless of the 2 hitting armor. I use Buzzsaw over Tempest these days and I don't even need the hat to break armor. I just 11212 to break armor and if I make the wrong call I can stagger it if I choose. In the corner he constantly plays safe and he's still got +Frames from ex hats in Tempest and Buzzsaw. He really is a smothering character

Edit: How could I forget that Buzzsaw has the B2 mix. I've literally taken whole health bars because people guess wrong lol
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
The_Tile said:
I'm very curious what makes you say that if you don't mind me asking
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Sub Zero can put like 50% of the cast in the corner and play his game for free after that point.

Lao can put 100% of the cast in the corner and play his game. He's like a SFV character he has throw loops for days and just as many throw baits.

Even then if a lot of characters guess right once they're out of subs game. You can guess right once against Lao and he can just confirm on block into ex hat and you repeat the same scenario
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
A F0xy Grampa said:
Sub Zero can put like 50% of the cast in the corner and play his game for free after that point.

Lao can put 100% of the cast in the corner and play his game. He's like a SFV character he has throw loops for days and just as many throw baits.

Even then if a lot of characters guess right once they're out of subs game. You can guess right once against Lao and he can just confirm on block into ex hat and you repeat the same scenario
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On paper though his throw game took a significant nerf after the last patch, if someone can tech throws on reaction then they aren't gonna be getting opened up at all by any of his staggers into throws, the worst they'll be eating is D1/4s unless you choose to throw them out of the corner, then he loses positioning obviously.

I guess it depends more on the player than the MU as, like you said, Laos corner game is the same no matter who he's against really. I'm same till not seeing how it's as threatening as GM's though.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think has the best corner game in the entire game?
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
A F0xy Grampa said:
id take those Mileena nerfs if she has a mid b12 in piercing

Also any change to make the window larger to punish people mashing back to back play pokes.

Would also make it so pokes aren't special cancellable

@Eddy Wang i wouldn't say Lao is weak in neutral. At least in buzzsaw and tempest he's got some of the best screen and pace control of anybody in the game. It's just that he doesn't have a high reward low risk potato style.
I can't really think of many characters that truly outclass Lao in neutral.
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In Buzzsaw and Tempest i agree , hat trick not really.
The way his less used variation was designed doesn't go really well with the game in general without some applicable changes.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
A F0xy Grampa said:
You're ignoring the fact that Lao has a corner game that's arguably as smothering as GM sub zero, and he doesn't need a better wakeup, it's not like ex tele doesn't function.

I don't know why you feel the need to jump with him either. His ground game is as strong as a character like Cage or Cassie.

And where you use characters like Kotal and Cassie coming in on the ground, Lao has moves the same speed as theirs, and a longer range d4, although slower, also orbit hat completely changes the dynamic. It forces people to react in some manner, it's basically like having a moving ice clone, even if people can low profile or attempt to attack straight through it you can punish those options too.
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tempest and Buzzsaw are fine as i said before, hat Spin and hat grinder change a lot how to approach him, and masks a lot of things that otherwise would be a weakness.
Hat Trick has the struggle F0xy lol, even you have a reason to not play that variation ahaha

What i'm saying is, these two variations don't really need changes, and HT it's the only one needing variation specific changes to keep them on sub-par with the others. And its not much, just reducing 5 frames to all his hat traps, and his call back be -5 instead of -7.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Pan1cMode said:
Special Forces is better than covert OPs. Better neutral control, better zoning, better pressure; she's better overall.
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Special Forces still needs to put drones to be better, Covert Ops doesn't.
We can agree to disagree, i think CO Sonya is much easier to access on the get go, and she has all of her tools at her disposal at all times, due this i think this makes her better than SF imo.

But i can see your point, if you're saying dronya becomes superior in every way with the drone out, i still think CO is super good overall even without drone setups, her game is basically bare on bones, straight forward without too much overthinking or work to be done.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
I feel like Special Forces is just kind of bad without Drone out. With Drone out she becomes a scary monster but you need to first get the drone out, then open up your opponent where CO Sonya just has her tools and doesn't need to set them up. I think they're about the same strength wise since CO Sonya is solid whenever and SF Sonya is only okay without Drone but is insane when the Drone comes out.
 
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Pan1cMode said:
Well, no one asked you because you obviously don't know anything about high tech.

And yeah, you could have read the Jacqui changes I suggested which are both logical and fair.

You also may have suggested nerfs to smoke and sektor, but none that would affect cyrax and cyber sub. This is because you understand that one good variation doesn't mean universal tools should be nerfed.

Comparing Jacqui's lol-range strings to Cage's knee also seems a bit disingenuous.

Tell you what, you play high tech and tell me how viable and deserving of nerfs she is.
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I know more than you think. I know she needs buffs (the right ones), but in the bigger picture no character, no matter the variation gets a safe or + on block armored attack.
 
Zionix

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
IrishMantis said:
Worst thing is pokes

When a char has no mids I will abuse them by doing poke into poke just because it's the right thing does not mean it feels right doing it. Doesn't seem to be an issue I2 unless vs Batman
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Lets hope they get it right!
 
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