For Honor

EntropicByDesign · Mar 25, 2017

There is some weird balance stuff happening in this game for sure. Luckily, I really feel like its not some terrible conglomerate of fuckery, but more sedate, a handful of thoughtful and careful changes will elevate lower characters and adjust a few unreasonable things about the tippy-tops and we will have a solidly condensed fighting game.

EntropicByDesign · Mar 25, 2017

Juggs said:
There's actually a few good For Honor players who stream. iSkys, Tru3, SypherPK, King Richard, and some more. iSkys' Warden is who I learned from, he's actually really good with 'em.

I keep trying that, but every time I catch him streaming he's playing Dominion, geared out his ass and just spam-bulldozing lesser geared teams with infini-revenge. Nothing wrong with that mind you, if youve put the time in for your gear, enjoy it, I just mean there isnt a ton to learn there, lol.

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Direct learning is over-rated. Lets have fun and learn when we don't even realize we are learning.

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

Juggs said:
That's the thing. You don't nerf good characters to bottom tier. You buff bottom tier and nerf god tier/completely broken moves. The only character currently I can say needs a nerf is Warlord.

And unfortunately the flicker/kara zone thing needs to be taken out because of PK.

I disagree with this and you would to if youve ever played a conq

Conq is the most brain dead broken character in this game. Warlord is the best character but conq is the most broken. That being said top tier needs nerfs. Warlord, conq, pk they all need nerfs, more specifically just certain moves. PKs zone needs a recovery nerf it is way too good on recovery and playing as an assassin against pk and winning is literally impossible in high level play.
Conqs shield bash is the most broken and overpowered move in this game, its just as good as headbutt but its completely unpunishable. Conq also has parries with blocks because reasons.
Warlord's headbutt is also very dumb and his full guard is absolutely braindead not to mention that he also has lights as fast as pk and hyper armor, again because reasons.

The tier gap is ridiculously huge in this game and the top tier needs to be nerfed

Dont get me wrong heros that arent top tier absolutely suck. Theres obviously a problem. If there was a player that was psychic they still couldnt win in this game with half the cast in high level play.

Red Hood MKX · Mar 25, 2017

Anyone watch the tournament today raider top tier lol , pk S tier warden mid tier, conq absolutely aids, and warlord the most balanced lul

Gesture Required Ahead · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
I disagree with this and you would to if youve ever played a conq

Conq is the most brain dead broken character in this game. Warlord is the best character but conq is the most broken. That being said top tier needs nerfs. Warlord, conq, pk they all need nerfs, more specifically just certain moves. PKs zone needs a recovery nerf it is way too good on recovery and playing as an assassin against pk and winning is literally impossible in high level play.
Conqs shield bash is the most broken and overpowered move in this game, its just as good as headbutt but its completely unpunishable. Conq also has parries with blocks because reasons.
Warlord's headbutt is also very dumb and his full guard is absolutely braindead not to mention that he also has lights as fast as pk and hyper armor, again because reasons.

The tier gap is ridiculously huge in this game and the top tier needs to be nerfed

Dont get me wrong heros that arent top tier absolutely suck. Theres obviously a problem. If there was a player that was psychic they still couldnt win in this game with half the cast in high level play.

I agree. While I can't say I have solid suggestions for nerfs (other than remove stupid stamina damage), the tier gap is really big and therefore needs some serious adjustments.

Nexallus · Mar 25, 2017

I just found the bug with Raider where he can make his attacks unparryable simply by unlocking his opponent before attacking (this is quite dumb).

I tried it myself in some matches and I've never felt dirtier (I was not having any fun). This bug in particular needs to be fixed for sure.

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
I disagree with this and you would to if youve ever played a conq

Conq is the most brain dead broken character in this game. Warlord is the best character but conq is the most broken. That being said top tier needs nerfs. Warlord, conq, pk they all need nerfs, more specifically just certain moves. PKs zone needs a recovery nerf it is way too good on recovery and playing as an assassin against pk and winning is literally impossible in high level play.
Conqs shield bash is the most broken and overpowered move in this game, its just as good as headbutt but its completely unpunishable. Conq also has parries with blocks because reasons.
Warlord's headbutt is also very dumb and his full guard is absolutely braindead not to mention that he also has lights as fast as pk and hyper armor, again because reasons.

The tier gap is ridiculously huge in this game and the top tier needs to be nerfed

Dont get me wrong heros that arent top tier absolutely suck. Theres obviously a problem. If there was a player that was psychic they still couldnt win in this game with half the cast in high level play.

I played a few Dominions with my 108 Conq and did pretty well, but wanted to try your theory - so I switched to my level 4 Kensei. Now, the players in these games play together a decent amount and they know to dodge the bash and retreat when he is enraged to stay off the Conq train and have seen less Kensei, but Kensei can feint and does twice the damage of Conq. 6 games later, they were complaining about Kensei's damage and mixups way more than they ever complained about anything Conq has. Now, I know Conq is good - but I also know that you're waaay overdramatically painting the differences in classes. Conq has great D, but Kensei is solid. I even went 24-2 one game and I never do that well with Conq against these guys. They play alot. They're not on most TYMers level, but they're far from bums. Now, I don't know about every matchup - but I know you're trying to misinform in this one.

Red Hood MKX · Mar 25, 2017

Nexallus said:
I just found the bug with Raider where he can make his attacks unparryable simply by unlocking his opponent before attacking (this is quite dumb).

I tried it myself in some matches and I've never felt dirtier (I was not having any fun). This bug in particular needs to be fixed for sure.

Dude after watching this tournament today one thing ive noticed is that this game is absolutely riddled with retarted bugs and glitches all over the place.

i dont even think this game is viable for any tournament in its current state and the people who are winning seem to be abusing these bugs and glitches can anyone say there a good player if there winning with glitches i get it if everyone is doing it you have to do it too but it just doesnt seem right please ubisoft fix your dawm game we dint pay 60 dollars to play a fucking glitchy buggy game!!!!!!!!

Gesture Required Ahead · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
I played a few Dominions with my 108 Conq and did pretty well, but wanted to try your theory - so I switched to my level 4 Kensei. Now, the players in these games play together a decent amount and they know to dodge the bash and retreat when he is enraged to stay off the Conq train and have seen less Kensei, but Kensei can feint and does twice the damage of Conq. 6 games later, they were complaining about Kensei's damage and mixups way more than they ever complained about anything Conq has. Now, I know Conq is good - but I also know that you're waaay overdramatically painting the differences in classes. Conq has great D, but Kensei is solid. I even went 24-2 one game and I never do that well with Conq against these guys. They play alot. They're not on most TYMers level, but they're far from bums. Now, I don't know about every matchup - but I know you're trying to misinform in this one.

Kensei is NOT solid lmao. I'm sorry to say but anyone can lose to a character they're not familiar with. I still lose to Berserker, Raider and Nobu despite them being deemed bad. But that's because I don't play much vs them. All my exp comes from fighting endless Wardens, Warlords and Conquerors (probably my source of depression because they are Kensei's worst match-ups).

When all a character has to cause damage is Top Light and pitiful gimmicks, is compared to characters that can deal damage by simply existing and is deemed "solid", there's an obvious lack of perspective.

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
I played a few Dominions with my 108 Conq and did pretty well, but wanted to try your theory - so I switched to my level 4 Kensei. Now, the players in these games play together a decent amount and they know to dodge the bash and retreat when he is enraged to stay off the Conq train and have seen less Kensei, but Kensei can feint and does twice the damage of Conq. 6 games later, they were complaining about Kensei's damage and mixups way more than they ever complained about anything Conq has. Now, I know Conq is good - but I also know that you're waaay overdramatically painting the differences in classes. Conq has great D, but Kensei is solid. I even went 24-2 one game and I never do that well with Conq against these guys. They play alot. They're not on most TYMers level, but they're far from bums. Now, I don't know about every matchup - but I know you're trying to misinform in this one.

Kenseis a solid 4s character because of his reach, damage and his mixups are good against players that dont know what they are doing (including you because you obviously dont know his own mixups if you think they are good).

Notice how I said 4s character and notice how 4s gameplay is significantly different from brawl and duel. Kenseis mixups are pure gimmicks and he has literally nothing to open any actual good player up with. Go on one of the real competitive game modes and face against a good competitive player. I promise you, you will be miserable. You just dont understand due to the lack of competitiveness in the 4s.

Theres a reason you never see high level kenseis far in tourneys.

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

Red Hood MKX said:
Dude after watching this tournament today one thing ive noticed is that this game is absolutely riddled with retarted bugs and glitches all over the place.

i dont even think this game is viable for any tournament in its current state and the people who are winning seem to be abusing these bugs and glitches can anyone say there a good player if there winning with glitches i get it if everyone is doing it you have to do it too but it just doesnt seem right please ubisoft fix your dawm game we dint pay 60 dollars to play a fucking glitchy buggy game!!!!!!!!

The only way to open good players up with none top tier heros in this game is to do the supposed "glitches", its that simple.
Any character that can open you up without bugs is considered top tier.

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
Kenseis a solid 4s character because of his reach, damage and his mixups are good against players that dont know what they are doing (including you because you obviously dont know his own mixups if you think they are good).

Notice how I said 4s character and notice how 4s gameplay is significantly different from brawl and duel. Kenseis mixups are pure gimmicks and he has literally nothing to open any actual good player up with. Go on one of the real competitive game modes and face against a good competitive player. I promise you, you will be miserable. You just dont understand due to the lack of competitiveness in the 4s.

Theres a reason you never see high level kenseis far in tourneys.

I heard someone say Conq is AIDs. What is AIDs is when players try to mislead to get the game skewed how they want it.

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
I heard someone say Conq is AIDs. What is AIDs is when players try to mislead to get the game skewed how they want it.

Stay in denial then. Not like you can make a counter point or anything like that.

You maining conq is skewing your view just like how red hood maining warlord skews his.

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
Stay in denial then. Not like you can make a counter point or anything like that.

You maining conq is skewing your view just like how red hood maining warlord skews his.

I've just seen this way too many times.

You would like to see Peacekeeper left alone while all her competition gets nerfed.

First, you went after Warden. Then, it was Warlord. Now, its Conq's turn. You're hoping to turn the other classes against one another. As long as PK gets no mention, you get what you want.

I don't want PK nerfed. I don't want Warlord nerfed. I don't want Warden nerfed. I don't want Conq nerfed. I would like to see the classes that need help, get it - slightly - like they did for Valkyrie. Thats because balance is my goal. That wouldn't help PK though, so thats not what you want.

Red Hood MKX · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
Stay in denial then. Not like you can make a counter point or anything like that.

You maining conq is skewing your view just like how red hood maining warlord skews his.

Dawm shit is heating up in here lmao

I know warlord is OP ive suggested nerfs for him its not like im completely biased and say warlord is fine the way he is.

How about these nerf suggestions for warlord get rid of full guard, get rid of his super armor, get rid if his throw distance. just leave headbutt alone thats the only way he can open anyone up

Red Hood MKX · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
I heard someone say Conq is AIDs. What is AIDs is when players try to mislead to get the game skewed how they want it.

Dude with all respect conq is the most glitchy character in the whole game warlord cant even get a guaranteed light after headbutt against conq WTF is that!!! they just need to fix his glitchy bugs with his shield and i think conq would be fine and probably make full guard cost more stamina too

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Red Hood MKX said:
Dude with all respect conq is the most glitchy character in the whole game warlord cant even get a guaranteed light after headbutt against conq WTF is that!!! they just need to fix his glitchy bugs with his shield and i think conq would be fine and probably make full guard cost more stamina too

You're falling right into it.

I'm pretty sure the light is guaranteed if you time it correctly. I know I have blocked it, but not if the WL has the right timing.

I could fix Conq, WL, and Warden with just one fix. Add just a little delay if their unblockable whiffs. It would undermine the guard break mixups on whiffed unblockables.

Then, give Kensei the ability to access his unblockable at any point, but have it do less damage if they access it early. With Nobu, speed up her guard changes and make her kick do more damage or stamina damage. Give Berserker a quicker sidestep. Give Lawbringer's push damage.

Red Hood MKX · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
The only way to open good players up with none top tier heros in this game is to do the supposed "glitches", its that simple.
Any character that can open you up without bugs is considered top tier.

Well most of the people that i see using these glitches are using the top 4 characters. Dude glitches and bugs shouldn't be in the game period no argument. if you need to buff bottom tier characters to open people up then do it that simple

deathblooms2k4 · Mar 25, 2017

Truth time. This game is absolute garbage as a competitive fighter. It's full of bugs and glitches and the balancing is god awful. I don't see ubisoft fixing it... ever. They built this game to sell steel in micro transactions. They've already made a fortune. The amount of time and effort they would need to apply to make this game a viable competitive fighter would not justify the cost there's simply too much wrong with it most of which are core mechanics of the game which are the hardest mechanics to fix.

So yeah I've basically given up on taking this game seriously and I recommend you guys do the same otherwise you're just going to end up disappointed. I think it's absolutely worth the price and you can easily get 60$ worth of fun out of it. But beyond casual fun the game is hugely flawed. It's sad and I wish it were different but ubisoft does not have a good track record and I fear this will be no different.

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
I've just seen this way too many times.

You would like to see Peacekeeper left alone while all her competition gets nerfed.

First, you went after Warden. Then, it was Warlord. Now, its Conq's turn. You're hoping to turn the other classes against one another. As long as PK gets no mention, you get what you want.

I don't want PK nerfed. I don't want Warlord nerfed. I don't want Warden nerfed. I don't want Conq nerfed. I would like to see the classes that need help, get it - slightly - like they did for Valkyrie. Thats because balance is my goal. That wouldn't help PK though, so thats not what you want.

This isnt a trap what are you talking about? First I said they should nerf pk.
"First, you went after Warden. Then, it was Warlord. Now, its Conq's turn. You're hoping to turn the other classes against one another. As long as PK gets no mention" I mentioned all those characters and I said that pks should be nerfed. Even if she shouldnt that doesnt mean conq shouldnt.

You dont understand competitive if you dont want any nerfs.
I dont even play pk except for tourneys because i realize how good she is. This isnt a campaign to attack your character this is a campaign to attack all op characters.

Again I think that top top tier should be nerfed (pk warlord conq) and low and mid tier should be buffed

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
This isnt a trap what are you talking about? First I said they should nerf pk.
"First, you went after Warden. Then, it was Warlord. Now, its Conq's turn. You're hoping to turn the other classes against one another. As long as PK gets no mention" I mentioned all those characters and I said that pks should be nerfed. Even if she shouldnt that doesnt mean conq shouldnt.

You dont understand competitive if you dont want any nerfs.
I dont even play pk except for tourneys because i realize how good she is. This isnt a campaign to attack your character this is a campaign to attack all op characters.

Again I think that top top tier should be nerfed (pk warlord conq) and low and mid tier should be buffed

So, how would you nerf PK then?

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

GAV said:
So, how would you nerf PK then?

Nerf her recovery on block and hit and whiff for zone attack. Its fast and its fine that its fast but its not fine that when you block it you are still minus.
I would also nerf her dashes especially dash back and especially when she is staminaless.

Conq i would make his shoulder bash be punishable on whiff and have a smaller hit box. I would make it so he can only do the bash right after a dash and not delay it. I would maybe get rid of his block parrys too. I would make it so that he doesnt get a shield advantage on blocking when out of stamina.

Warlords tough. Hes literally top or second at everything. You even can win an entire set of matches with his unlocked play alone. First i would make his full guard weaker, allow him to be gb during it, its slower and he only gets the light after a block. I would make his head butt be able to be activated only right after dash so he cant delay it. I would make his running attack punishable on whiff (the unblockable one). Also I would make it so that when hes stamina less he doesnt get a shield advantage on blocking anything. Lastly I would nerf his throw distance and slightly buff head butt damage.
The rest I would just buff the other characters and buff chip damage

Basic Stupidity · Mar 25, 2017

Red Hood MKX said:
Dawm shit is heating up in here lmao

I know warlord is OP ive suggested nerfs for him its not like im completely biased and say warlord is fine the way he is.

How about these nerf suggestions for warlord get rid of full guard, get rid of his super armor, get rid if his throw distance. just leave headbutt alone thats the only way he can open anyone up

I know you're different now but before you would defend him to your grave

GAV · Mar 25, 2017

Basic Stupidity said:
Nerf her recovery on block and hit and whiff for zone attack. Its fast and its fine that its fast but its not fine that when you block it you are still minus.
I would also nerf her dashes especially dash back and especially when she is staminaless.

Conq i would make his shoulder bash be punishable on whiff and have a smaller hit box. I would make it so he can only do the bash right after a dash and not delay it. I would maybe get rid of his block parrys too. I would make it so that he doesnt get a shield advantage on blocking when out of stamina.

Warlords tough. Hes literally top or second at everything. You even can win an entire set of matches with his unlocked play alone. First i would make his full guard weaker, allow him to be gb during it, its slower and he only gets the light after a block. I would make his head butt be able to be activated only right after dash so he cant delay it. I would make his running attack punishable on whiff (the unblockable one). Also I would make it so that when hes stamina less he doesnt get a shield advantage on blocking anything. Lastly I would nerf his throw distance and slightly buff head butt damage.
The rest I would just buff the other characters and buff chip damage

If you're going to castrate the other characters, you can't mildly tweak PK. Your bias is showing.

Lets add recovery to PK and take away everything from the other top tier characters that makes them good.

You're a good player, but you give terrible advice on balancing.

For Honor

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