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[SPOILERS] Injustice 2: Rumors, Leaks, and our potential roster

Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
CrazyFingers said:
"best villains" is purely opinion based so literally no point in arguing that :p
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I hear it at lot though and I'm like "why?". I always ask, what is the definitive Two-face arc? Or Killer Croc? Or Clayface? The best Mr. Freeze backstory was given in a cartoon, the same cartoon that produced one of the biggest properties DC has in Harley Quinn. What makes Batman's villains the best? Because people actually know the characters or because they genuinely believe they're better than anyone elses?

To me the galleries go:

Spider-Man
Flash
Superman/Batman go back and forth
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Honestly, to me, Swamp Thing has the BEST villain, free. Because he does he is what Joker is to Batman only in a more...raw sort of way. (Anton Arcane is just so damn good man)
 
Gamer68

Gamer68

Fujin!
Compbros said:
I hear it at lot though and I'm like "why?". I always ask, what is the definitive Two-face arc? Or Killer Croc? Or Clayface? The best Mr. Freeze backstory was given in a cartoon, the same cartoon that produced one of the biggest properties DC has in Harley Quinn. What makes Batman's villains the best? Because people actually know the characters or because they genuinely believe they're better than anyone elses?

To me the galleries go:

Spider-Man
Flash
Superman/Batman go back and forth
Click to expand...
What I meant by "best villains" is that they are all pretty much recognizable to anyone. I can go up to one of my family members who aren't into comic stuff and ask "Do you know who The Riddler is?" and they would say yes. Same goes for Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Bane, of course The Joker and Harley, but even more.

I could ask "Do you know who Gorilla Grodd is?" and chance are the answer would be no. Same goes for Cheetah, Circle, Captain Cold, and so on. Like I said in my other comment, people know and want Batman characters. Even if it is the casual audience (which makes up the vast majority of sales, so of course NRS is going to listen to them to a point) or the hardcore audience.

As for WHY people like them, I don't know, they are just really good in my opinion. There's something about the tone and feel of Batman that people really like. It's dark and serious, but at the same time it's still comic-y and over-the-top at times. Batman just has really good villains, what else is there to say?
 
SZSR

SZSR

Noob
Black Siren is a CW character (unless they're referencing the Black Siren from the Justice League episode), it's a little telling if they neglected to note that it was CW.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Gamer68 said:
What I meant by "best villains" is that they are all pretty much recognizable to anyone. I can go up to one of my family members who aren't into comic stuff and ask "Do you know who The Riddler is?" and they would say yes. Same goes for Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Bane, of course The Joker and Harley, but even more.

I could ask "Do you know who Gorilla Grodd is?" and chance are the answer would be no. Same goes for Cheetah, Circle, Captain Cold, and so on. Like I said in my other comment, people know and want Batman characters. Even if it is the casual audience (which makes up the vast majority of sales, so of course NRS is going to listen to them to a point) or the hardcore audience.

As for WHY people like them, I don't know, they are just really good in my opinion. There's something about the tone and feel of Batman that people really like. It's dark and serious, but at the same time it's still comic-y and over-the-top at times. Batman just has really good villains, what else is there to say?
Click to expand...

That doesn't equal the best though, I could ask people who aren't into Pop if they know who Justin Beiber is and they will say yes. It means the mainstream are aware of them, it speaks nothing to the quality of their music or, in this case, them as characters.


People want Batman, a Robin, Joker, Harley. Those are who Batman fans will pick something up for, anything else is just icing. Batman, Robin, Joker, Harley, and Ivy/Scarecrow with the other as DLC and Mr. Freeze as a skin is perfect for casual Batman fans. Sure, you get people that want Croc and Riddler but they aren't gonna not buy the game because they're absent when these other Batman characters made the roster.

Really good, fine. Batman is no more serious than any other comic. Green Arrow's universe is in fact DARKER and more serious than Batman's, he just isn't a uber serious character. Superman has been ultra dark at times and he's seen as the beacon of shininess in the public's eye. Really good? Fine, but so do others. Why is Batman getting 8 characters when Superman, the #2 franchise ATM (and still their #1 franchise overall) getting 3 CHARACTERS? He doesn't even get his archnemesis when Boon himself said you can't have a DC game without Lex and Joker. Joker makes it, Lex doesn't. Batman gets his "doomsday" in Bane, Superman doesn't.

And trust, this isn't sour grapes as a Superman fan, it's sour grapes as a DC comics fan. When I think of the potential of a Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, Circe, Animal Man, Vixen, Larfleeze, Amazo, and so on being left out to fit in more Batman people is completely disheartening when I have to wait another 4 years just for the CHANCE of seeing someone I really want in to make it.
 
Mulder

Mulder

King of Heroes
Compbros said:
I hear it at lot though and I'm like "why?". I always ask, what is the definitive Two-face arc? Or Killer Croc? Or Clayface? The best Mr. Freeze backstory was given in a cartoon, the same cartoon that produced one of the biggest properties DC has in Harley Quinn. What makes Batman's villains the best? Because people actually know the characters or because they genuinely believe they're better than anyone elses?

To me the galleries go:

Spider-Man
Flash
Superman/Batman go back and forth
Click to expand...
The definitive Two-Face arc is The Long Halloween duology, The Dark Knight, his B:TAS origin two-parter. Clayface had an amazing series arc in Batman: TAS. Killer Croc's had a lot of good one-shots.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Mulder said:
The definitive Two-Face arc is The Long Halloween duology, The Dark Knight, his B:TAS origin two-parter. Clayface had an amazing series arc in Batman: TAS. Killer Croc's had a lot of good one-shots.
Click to expand...

I'm saying in comics. The cartoon added a lot of depth to otherwise flat and "gangster's with a gimmick" characters. The Dark Knight was a weak Two-Face to me.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Mulder said:
You can't disregard the cartoon. It's just as valid a medium for the characters as the comics are. Though Long Halloween and Dark Victory were comics
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I know the Long Haloween was, never heard of Dark Victory. I'm not disregarding the cartoon, I'm saying people are getting their basis of these characters from the cartoon and the cartoon took a lot of liberties and added a lot of things. To me it's essentially an Elseworld tale, it'd be like counting Injustice as a great representation of Superman. That's why people think these characters are great more often than not though, the cartoon. But these characters have spent decades without great stories or arcs in comics but they watch a few seasons of a cartoon and think these characters are the best ever in the 80+ year history of the comic industry. It truly seems like they think it's the best because it's all they know and it's all they know because, more often than not, it's all they're shown.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
On the topic of dark DC shit, some of the Batman archs are actually tame in comparison to some of the fucked up stuff other characters have had. Take for example, almost everything involving Swamp Thing (he's the character I know the most about so imma be talking about him a lot) Anton Arcane ALONE is more dark than some other archs. Batman might have some messed up dark and twisted archs (I don't even need to name them, we know what they are) but there are some other stories in comics that are just...really fucked.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
That's cause it isn't a leak ayyyy

Unless you're referring to the one from months ago that hasn't been wrong yet where the guy who claimed he worked on the mobile game posted Harley concept art as proof they were legit and that same art ended up being used as Harley's cards in the mobile game, in which case yeah that was pretty much confirmed real
 
Gamer68

Gamer68

Fujin!
Compbros said:
That doesn't equal the best though, I could ask people who aren't into Pop if they know who Justin Beiber is and they will say yes. It means the mainstream are aware of them, it speaks nothing to the quality of their music or, in this case, them as characters.


People want Batman, a Robin, Joker, Harley. Those are who Batman fans will pick something up for, anything else is just icing. Batman, Robin, Joker, Harley, and Ivy/Scarecrow with the other as DLC and Mr. Freeze as a skin is perfect for casual Batman fans. Sure, you get people that want Croc and Riddler but they aren't gonna not buy the game because they're absent when these other Batman characters made the roster.

Really good, fine. Batman is no more serious than any other comic. Green Arrow's universe is in fact DARKER and more serious than Batman's, he just isn't a uber serious character. Superman has been ultra dark at times and he's seen as the beacon of shininess in the public's eye. Really good? Fine, but so do others. Why is Batman getting 8 characters when Superman, the #2 franchise ATM (and still their #1 franchise overall) getting 3 CHARACTERS? He doesn't even get his archnemesis when Boon himself said you can't have a DC game without Lex and Joker. Joker makes it, Lex doesn't. Batman gets his "doomsday" in Bane, Superman doesn't.

And trust, this isn't sour grapes as a Superman fan, it's sour grapes as a DC comics fan. When I think of the potential of a Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, Circe, Animal Man, Vixen, Larfleeze, Amazo, and so on being left out to fit in more Batman people is completely disheartening when I have to wait another 4 years just for the CHANCE of seeing someone I really want in to make it.
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying that Batman had the darkest comics and that's why people like it. I was just saying that it's dark but also comic-y, that it kinda strikes a balance. It has a dark tone, but there's over-the-top characters like The Riddler. I also wasn't saying that it is right or wrong that there at more Batman characters, I'm just saying that I get why they are doing it. Just wanted to clarify those things.

Also you mention more obscure characters like Mirror Master, Circle, Animal Man, etc not getting, which is true. But at the same time, I feel like it's important to point out that NRS at least tried to make more hardcore fans happy with characters like Dr. Fate, Captain Cold, Gorrila Grodd, Cheetah, etc. I know that those characters aren't exactly as obscure as Mirror Master and whatnot, but they are still unknown to a lot of people out there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though there's a couple more Batman characters this time, there's also a lot of obscure characters in this game unlike INJ1. I honestly find it weirder that characters like Lex aren't in the game, like you mentioned.

At the end of the day, I feel like NRS is trying to add "mainstream" characters (like the Batman villains) to grab people's attentions, while also adding some characters that maybe only comic readers or show-watchers know of. It's not perfect, and there are differently characters that could be replaced with arguably better choices, but I do feel like what INJ2 is going to have is better than what INJ1 had, but that's just an opinion really.
 
Silver_Shadow

Silver_Shadow

Crazy Mexican
My anger for the amount of Batman characters we got in the game is offset by the fact that I got my boy Blue Beetle and several Titans!

I would have loved to have seen characters like Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Circe, Diablo, Enchantress, Felix Faust, Terra, or Animal Man make the roster since they actually have powers but whatevers. I'm still hopeful for Black Manta, Constantine, Vixen, Starfire, and returning characters like Ares, Raven and Zatanna as DLC though.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Gamer68 said:
I wasn't saying that Batman had the darkest comics and that's why people like it. I was just saying that it's dark but also comic-y, that it kinda strikes a balance. It has a dark tone, but there's over-the-top characters like The Riddler. I also wasn't saying that it is right or wrong that there at more Batman characters, I'm just saying that I get why they are doing it. Just wanted to clarify those things.

Also you mention more obscure characters like Mirror Master, Circle, Animal Man, etc not getting, which is true. But at the same time, I feel like it's important to point out that NRS at least tried to make more hardcore fans happy with characters like Dr. Fate, Captain Cold, Gorrila Grodd, Cheetah, etc. I know that those characters aren't exactly as obscure as Mirror Master and whatnot, but they are still unknown to a lot of people out there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though there's a couple more Batman characters this time, there's also a lot of obscure characters in this game unlike INJ1. I honestly find it weirder that characters like Lex aren't in the game, like you mentioned.

At the end of the day, I feel like NRS is trying to add "mainstream" characters (like the Batman villains) to grab people's attentions, while also adding some characters that maybe only comic readers or show-watchers know of. It's not perfect, and there are differently characters that could be replaced with arguably better choices, but I do feel like what INJ2 is going to have is better than what INJ1 had, but that's just an opinion really.
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I also have to say that "dark" doesn't mean good either. Not attacking you or anything but dark always seems to play in people's mind that it means more serious which means more good. Nearly all comics have that balance, Spider-man has it in spades. Flash, Superman, WoWo, X-men, it goes on. Some are more balanced than others but Batman isn't really the top of the balance.

Mirror Master just had an episode in flash, Weather Wizard was his very first villain in the series. Regardless, trying to please hardcore is fine but when those hardcore pleases combined are less than one universe it's ugly.

They have an extra 4 characters in the base roster and lost other fan favorites like Hawkgirl but retained Bane/Catwoman. So while there are more obscure people (I for sure wouldn't count Cold/Grodd) there's also unique characters lost while Catwoman is retained.


Whose attention is getting grabbed by Bane/Catwoman right now? Starfire/Static would grab a ton more attention. It's funny because the "show only watchers" are the Batman fans that are fans from his cartoon. The same people asking for Static and Teen Titans characters.
 
MisguidedAngel

MisguidedAngel

Greetings, Mortal
Let's all just pray that I2 is so successful that it acts more like a platform. That way that can add a character a month for years to come... then we can all have the characters we want!

and that they don't just announce MK11 in a year and it dies :(.

I for one am ecstatic about the new roster. There's so many characters I'm interested in. It's going to be so hard to find a main. In the first game the only characters I had any remote interest in on day 1 were Bane and Sinestro. But now I have Darkseid, Swamp Thing, Grodd, Cold, Deadshot, Ivy, Brainiac, Scarecrow, hnnnnngh. (and Spawn ;) )

Because of this it's really hard for me to fathom how so many people aren't happy with this incredible roster haha. Especially when we're getting at bare minimum 9 more characters on top of these. But I do hope none of those are Batman characters. And no more than 2 guests... I really don't want to see an MK character again..
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
MisguidedAngel said:
Because of this it's really hard for me to fathom how so many people aren't happy with this incredible roster haha.
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I've been asking for Animal Man since IGAU1. I've gotten 3 characters I really wanted: Blue Beetle, Grodd, and Cold. In turn I've lost Lex, Sinestro, Deathstroke, Hawkgirl, Raven, Grundy. I lost 6 to gain 3. Lex really hurts as he's the archnemesis of my favorite character and should always be coupled with Superman just like Joker with Batman. There are about 40 characters I want in Injustice that aren't the no brainers JL (and yet still no MMH) and I got about 6. There's a finite amount of space which means a finite amount of chances and over a fourth of that went to a single universe.
 
Mulder

Mulder

King of Heroes
Compbros said:
I know the Long Haloween was, never heard of Dark Victory. I'm not disregarding the cartoon, I'm saying people are getting their basis of these characters from the cartoon and the cartoon took a lot of liberties and added a lot of things. To me it's essentially an Elseworld tale, it'd be like counting Injustice as a great representation of Superman. That's why people think these characters are great more often than not though, the cartoon. But these characters have spent decades without great stories or arcs in comics but they watch a few seasons of a cartoon and think these characters are the best ever in the 80+ year history of the comic industry. It truly seems like they think it's the best because it's all they know and it's all they know because, more often than not, it's all they're shown.
Click to expand...
The DCAU has influenced the comics tremendously though. Look at Mr.Freeze's complete change because of Batman: The Animated Series. Or Harley and Mercy getting added to the comics because of the DCAU.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Mulder said:
The DCAU has influenced the comics tremendously though. Look at Mr.Freeze's complete change because of Batman: The Animated Series. Or Harley and Mercy getting added to the comics because of the DCAU.
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Yes, they gave a lot to characters that were fairly nothing and, to this day, a lot of the backstory from that series is used. The definitive versions of a lot of these characters come from that series which is why I always ask for the definitive arc of these characters. Because the best they've ever been was that cartoon and it was really popular so people feel they're the best when they don't even know the main archnemesis of most of the JL. Notoriety has become good which has become best.

Edit: Think about that, Batman had been around for over 50 years but it took a cartoon for many of these characters to be fleshed out in this way.
 
MisguidedAngel

MisguidedAngel

Greetings, Mortal
Lex and Sinestro getting axed is like an MvC game losing Doom and Magneto.

So I definitely agree with you guys there. Their absence is my one major complaint about the roster. I hope they find their way in somehow.
 
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