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Is now the time to try a stick or hitbox?

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
TLDR.. there isn't one. read the damn response.

Very funny post and legitimate quest. I will explore the positives and negatives of your options.

Stick... while it is essential to beat off the random batmanbeatscaps of the world, there is a tremendous learning curve. I am talking 10,000's of games. Your muscle memory has to be completely changed, hitting quarter circle motions can be extremely hard depending on the type of grip you choose to use (use there are different ways to hold it... just ask your girlfriend) I do not recommend a switch to a stick UNLESS you are relatively younger (~20 years old ofryounger) as your plasticity is higher and it will be an easier tool to don.

Advantages? Other than personal preference it is easier to do insta/air motions. You can use alt controls and avoid the tragic d, d/b glitch****, some say your reactions are better though I am indifferent to this point.

Disadvantages? Hard to do MB specials, hard to move from d/b to b to block overheads on reaction (for the first 10,00 games you will move to the u/b, Learning curve... meaning you will lose a lot. But this might be a positive bc you will have a legit option select ("Im switching to stick bruh") I used that for awhile.

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PS3/4 pad

Welp, the community's comfort zone. PS4 pad < PS3 pad. It all depends if you use the tip of your thumb or the pad of your thumb. If you use the tip, just the tip :), then this is likely your best choice.

Advantage's? Likely the easiest pad to have access to and avoid not having your tool of choice at a tournament. Works well with the mk controls if you use the tip of your thumb rather than your pad of thumb (interphalengeal for the nerds) and a sliding motion. Easy to do insta air motions b/c of the d, d/b shortcut/glitch. I have seen some freaks actually use the sticks on this pad instead of the d-pad. Knuckle du and wolfkrone are the two major ones. Knuckle du actually switchs from d-pad to analog mid match depending on what he is trying to do

Disadvan? Very hard to go from a crouching position to doing b, forward motions in mk9 controls. In alt controls you can slide d, d/b, b, f (and even error margin if you hi f, then accidentally u or d/f). You are subject to catastrophic input errors such as an intended defensive d1 instead you get an unsafe special.

360 pad
Advan: Basically the controller version of a stick if you use the pad of your thumb. My weapon of choice and @YOMI FOREVER KING s. I use the pad of my thumb (as does king) and could do tiger knee motions extremely easy. Could do insta air projectiles extremely easy even in alt controls. Biggest adv is that you have access to alt controls and can hit diagonals much easier than the ps3/4 pad.

Disadv: need brook convert or modded pad ($). unorthodox method. pushing the triggers at the same time can be tricky for supers. not many disadv here if you can stomach the learning curve. you get access to alt controls at the level of a stick user.
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Hori pad and others
defer to @THTB as he has a lot of exp with these.
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Hitbox
This is only good if you are an ambi or have piano exp. Very high learning curve but technically the best tool on the market for NRS games. You have a tremendous advantage. It gives you all the best things from a stick/ps3 pad/and disc d-pad like 360. Inputs are clean, you can do insta air motions and reversals at the highest possible level. Very high learning curve.

im at work and in a hurry. I can elaborate more later or answer specific questions

****
The infamous d/db glitch is in MK9, I1, MKX. Basically, you only need to hit two motions of the d, d/b, b for a special move to come out. Easier for insta air projectiles/motions but you get random specials when trying to dp defensive d1's or d2's. For example, I used a 360 pad for I1 mainly for this reason. The d, d/b glitch would give you a random shackles or meteor. I could not hit diagonals well with a ps3/4 pad, thus, needed the 360 pad, alt controls for easy diagonals and it is what I used for SF4 dhalsim.
Wow thanks for elaborating, that actually helps ALOT. A thing a lot of people may not have mentioned since it doesn't apply to a lot of the folks here is reaction time, as you've mentioned. I've got decent reactions but am still Old Man Raws and that definitely is a factor.

Yeah it might seem that actually holding and getting the tactile feel of the aforementioned devices just might be an intelligent way of narrowing down certain pads/sticks and outright crossing others off the list. I'm actually gonna go that route in making my decision. Thanks for explicating. Injustice 2 is gonna steal a large chunk of my time, so picking the controller that is just perfect is important. How else am I going to wake up slide may way out of my troubles?
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Just adding to the pile.. Hitbox. Everything I have read or seen says Hitboxes are the way to go if your willing to spend the cash and take the time to learn.

I am planning to convert my poverty stick to a hitbox myself, then eventually buy a real one.
 
Wow thanks for elaborating, that actually helps ALOT. A thing a lot of people may not have mentioned since it doesn't apply to a lot of the folks here is reaction time, as you've mentioned. I've got decent reactions but am still Old Man Raws and that definitely is a factor.

Yeah it might seem that actually holding and getting the tactile feel of the aforementioned devices just might be an intelligent way of narrowing down certain pads/sticks and outright crossing others off the list. I'm actually gonna go that route in making my decision. Thanks for explicating. Injustice 2 is gonna steal a large chunk of my time, so picking the controller that is just perfect is important. How else am I going to wake up slide may way out of my troubles?
as long as there is a killer frost slide... you wont need to be reactive, rather, proactive :)
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
People have said everything about the Hitbox already it seems, but as someone who used it since the original Injustice I've had no real problems and coming from pad I would never dream of going back. Can't talk about stick because I hated it lol

What I will say is if someone hasn't already, is if you can grab a stick/hitbox from a friend(s) and try them out I would do so. I tried stick for a week and did not like it at all, bought a hitbox and some stuff felt natural straight away.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
My beloved Hori Fighting Commander 4 has unfortunately gone the way of the Ronda and thus has sustained too much damage to continue in a functional manner. Therefore I plan on scouting the horizon for a replacement or possibly even better controller option. After my experience with the ever so fucked up MKX PDP pad that was literally more of a waste of money than actually losing a one hundred dollar bill to the wind, I'm apprehensive. I could go and get a replacement for my fight pad, but feel that this is as good a time as ever to experiment with pad/stick options.


Aside from physical confrontations with the neighbors, I've never used a stick before and so obtaining one will mean I will have to learn how to use it, which I'm fine with doing. I play Street Fighter now, and a stick is pretty much made for that game. But Injustice 2 is on the horizon. I know a great deal of players play NRS games with stick, but I don't know if this is because they've already been used to the medium/have come from other games ala our NRS/SF brethren.

Assume money is no object: What would you recommend if you would recommend a stick for Injustice 2?

Do you have a fight pad in mind that you swear by?

Should I try getting a hit box? Do other fighting games mesh well WITH a hit box?

How are NRS games with stick? Do I need to use alternate controls? Weren't there issues with stick users and input buts in Injustice 1?

I'm an old man, so forgive me if these questions may have obvious answers. I'm not the most well versed in this field.

I don't think I'll be able to use the regular PS4 pad for the game. The controller just...doesn't feel comfortable for fighting games for me but I suppose I could also try and see how it works with IJ2. I mean, I suffered through the PDP pad's lack of response for at least a month before I realized I wasn't messing up combos, the buttons just weren't registering. Dear God, I've actually had the misfortune to see a man die in front of me a few years back and THAT was more enjoyable than using that fuck-forsaken pad. Possibly because I was the culprit.


Thanks in advance for any who can help.
I can understand exactly how you feel. While it's always best to stick to what you know and most importantly what your comfortable with. It's always good to try new things. Not only for you but to understand what your opponents use, how & why. Well because you never know if you too would try that said equipment and maybe end up being better then your opponent.

This for the most part is how I chose to approach games and controller's. Picking up something you feel either good or bad ways about will affect your mood on the games you play and how you either fight with/against yourself to learn something new or wonder "where have you been for the last 20+ years"!!! When it comes to switching to new controllers. That's How i feel about Hitbox.

You've played for a long time so you might know the advantages and disadvantages of pads, sticks, paddles, keyboards alike.

Hitbox is a beast. Now I wont say it's the holy grail but it does come close.

If you've played the better part of your life in arcades then its nothing more then muscle memory coming back to you. It'll take time like anything would but from there it's just practicing and conditioning yourself. From there you can modd your sticks to any customizations you feel best suits you. To switching your ball tops to bat tops. To completely going from Sawna joystick to crown korean type of joystick without the 4 way or 8 way gates that are in most stock arcade sticks. The modifications are limitless but you still have to use a joystick that can give you more issues on inputs then a hitbox would in some degrees. Aslo just to mention both pads and joysticks, sometimes depending on the games, might force you to use different hand techniques like claw or finger rolls to hold or tap in rapid successions to get moves and inputs out in awkward motions and positions if your got any hand, arm or finger problems pre existing that could cause discomfort to you.

Same with pads.

Keyboards are the super elites but not tournament legal if i remember correctly.

Hitbox is very good.
I personally recommend it for the older gamer like myself lol.

Its very light to hold surprisingly in your lap.

Its quite small too. Even the 24mm fit quite comfortably in your finger tips.

Very high learning curve but if you play multiple games you tend to cut the time of learning down by half.

The jump button is kinda weird at first but I withen the first several days I imagined it like a keyboard so you'll love the way you'll type your way to victory. Same with the down button running in the middle of the pack.

Your reaction times are for the most point should be on point, but that largely depends on you. I am 34 and I still think I have dem yung boi reactions too but when you add in input delays, lag online or just plain inputs that you typing( I call it typing when I use hitbox) then it starts to get iffy.

Also. I would highly recommend and suggest you modd it has well. My friend uses it for pc games. He modified his to play on ps1, ps2, and a ton of older systems using multiple brooks converters and the pcb board. I love it too. I'm also going to do the same with my hitbox because you pick up new techniques using the hitbox on older games that are just plain unfair. Which feels so good.

Soooo Goood.

There's just too much to say in one post but I can link you to a few sites for you to read and maybe get more in depth as well.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/tech-talk

Srk is the spot for tech, mods, equipments opinions, tutorials and everything else going on.

Check it out and good luck on your search.
 

shura30

Shura
While I do use Sanwa parts for my sticks I think it's kinda silly to say use them exclusively. I do know a couple of people that have a serious preference for hori stuff, the hayabusa lever/buttons specifically. There's definitely some high quality competition out there and they do feel different/play different enough that you owe it to yourself to at least check them out. Seimitsu also makes a good quality product.
I have the hori hayabusa too
the lever is on par, less throw but pretty similar overall
for buttons I don't like the hori ones, they did release a silent version but sanwas are still better than the ones that came with my hori rap4

seimitsu parts are also godlike but I recall them being popular betwee shoot'em'up players

honestly I never felt the need to switch from sanwa and when I tried the hayabusa I wasn't so impressed
 
I disagree. On a pad, no matter who you are, you are not getting leatherfaces instant air chainsaw at the lowest level 100/100 times unless you are probably Jesus himself. Technically the same could be said for Cassie's IAG. I have even seen sonic get njp or jump back 1. Point being it actually does improve execution THROUGH you actually being able to hit buttons more precisely. They kinda go hand in hand. Sure you could pick up a hitbox and be trash and have worse execution that's for any controller, but it's definitely the BEST method in improving your execution outside of practice and training ....







This. Man it gets pretty raunchy I thought it was just me lol
a little fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the edge works wonders
 

portent

Noob
@Rickyraws , I think that @PLAYING TO WIN makes some phenomenal points.

I know you said to assume that money is no object, however consider this; A pad is only $50, and a top quality stick, $100-200. That said, there is, in fact, a way for you to see if you can deal with something like a hitbox, and that's using a keyboard.

You'll know almost instantly if you're going to be willing to put the work in to be proficient with the HB, of if you just don't have the dexterity to play on it. Some people, like myself, cannot play on keyboard, and I've been attempting it on emulators for years, and that immediately ruled out the wasted expenditure of a hitbox, which is the most costly of the three options.

If you have access to MK9, MKX, or Injustice 1 via PC, then fire it up and set your controls up to mimic a hitbox layout. Use ASD for Left/Down/Right and Space Bar as Up/Jump. Then set your buttons on the right side of the KB as you see fit. This will mimic the HB as best as possible on the KB and help you not go blindly into this decision.

Likewise, you can always go with a PS2 pad with the brook PS2 to PS4 converter, or any other pad that brook offers converters for. If you're gonna try a stick, I would potentially look to get a good condition/used Qanba Q4 (PS3, 360, PC compatible), and the brook 360 to PS4 converter.

Don't waste the money on the brook PS3 to PS4 converter for fg's because most modern fg's use the skullgirls legacy driver which allows you to use a PS3 pad on PS4 while a PS4 pad is connected. Not always tournament legal, but I assume you're gonna bust out the stick at home and online first before taking it to a tournament, so it won't matter. If you're going to buy a brook converter, may as well get one that makes the most of your stick.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
You guys are gentlemen and scholars, thank you.


This has been extremely helpful.
I mean I like the way stick plays, reminds me of the arcade days but dayum it be hard, son. Especially after padding for years and not having touched a cabinet in decades.
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
The funny thing is though, is that the number one player for MKX uses a PS4 pad, and does pretty well with it on SFV too from what I've seen? So what does that say about D-pad?

Anyways, PS4 or XB360 pad???
 
The funny thing is though, is that the number one player for MKX uses a PS4 pad, and does pretty well with it on SFV too from what I've seen? So what does that say about D-pad?

Anyways, PS4 or XB360 pad???
The current capcom cup champ uses a PS4 pad as well. And quite a few evo champs use funny controllers. Luffys ps1 pad comes to mind. Although some good players use Xbox pads as well.
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
The current capcom cup champ uses a PS4 pad as well. And quite a few evo champs use funny controllers. Luffys ps1 pad comes to mind. Although some good players use Xbox pads as well.
Lol PS1 pad seriously? Would be pretty good I guess, small shape without analogs, those directional arrows were painful on the fingers after awhile lol
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
That said, there is, in fact, a way for you to see if you can deal with something like a hitbox, and that's using a keyboard.
I disagree. Keyboard feels different from Hitbox, at least when I played MK9 and the browser version of ST.

Hitbox just feels unique to me. The direction buttons are just quite different from standard keyboard keys.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
@Rickyraws one last thing. Make sure whatever u get has a mic port. You'll be surprised how many don't.
Wow, great call! My Hitbox did not have a mic port, so I ended up picking up a pair of wireless PS4 headphones.

One more positive to add on, though: playing with a Hitbox is just fucking satisfying. Slapping those directional buttons to hammer out a d-f motion; just the clickity-clack of df1 or any other series of inputs just feels good. It's a very fun device to use.
 

portent

Noob
I disagree. Keyboard feels different from Hitbox, at least when I played MK9 and the browser version of ST.

Hitbox just feels unique to me. The direction buttons are just quite different from standard keyboard keys.
They're ergonomically different as well as a different tactile feel, for sure. My recommendation wasn't about the feel, but more about dexterity, as they KB and HB will require similar, if not identical dexterity.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
To anyone wondering if its worth it to buy a stick or Hitbox consider this.

I used to be a pad fighter my entire, life, although my execution skill set came from the arcades, i didn't really took getting a stick in consideration until i talked to @zaf back then, he practically brainwashed me in all the goodies a stick can offer, and i'm really satisfied even today.

I will not go too much in detail, here, i will simply say the following:


Getting a stick costed me some money, but it was totally worth it, ever since i bought my Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 back then, i've had never spent money on other getting other controlers ever again, since 2013 until now, Played USF4, TTT2, DOA5U, MKXL and SFV all with the same stick, never did maintenance and still works as if bought it just yesterday.

Getting a Stick made my USF4 Ibuki close to what Sakonoko achieved.
Took my Hat Trick Kung Lao to another level
Learned and executed Korean Backdashes in Tekken and could fully explore the mishimas mechanics
did 1f knees with Akira in Doa.

Stick is currently waiting for Tekken 7FR, still kicking, took me like 2 months to be in full sync with the stick, ever since we connected our DNAs he became a part of my own body.
 
To anyone wondering if its worth it to buy a stick or Hitbox consider this.

I used to be a pad fighter my entire, life, although my execution skill set came from the arcades, i didn't really took getting a stick in consideration until i talked to @zaf back then, he practically brainwashed me in all the goodies a stick can offer, and i'm really satisfied even today.

I will not go too much in detail, here, i will simply say the following:


Getting a stick costed me some money, but it was totally worth it, ever since i bought my Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 back then, i've had never spent money on other getting other controlers ever again, since 2013 until now, Played USF4, TTT2, DOA5U, MKXL and SFV all with the same stick, never did maintenance and still works as if bought it just yesterday.

Getting a Stick made my USF4 Ibuki close to what Sakonoko achieved.
Took my Hat Trick Kung Lao to another level
Learned and executed Korean Backdashes in Tekken and could fully explore the mishimas mechanics
did 1f knees with Akira in Doa.

Stick is currently waiting for Tekken 7FR, still kicking, took me like 2 months to be in full sync with the stick, ever since we connected our DNAs he became a part of my own body.
While I respect what you're saying and agree with the benefits I have two points to make.

1. Personal preference matters more than anything. Sticks won't make you better than pads unless you prefer playing with them.

2. No one compares to sakonoko. Ever. Don't blaspheme against the gods please.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
While I respect what you're saying and agree with the benefits I have two points to make.

1. Personal preference matters more than anything. Sticks won't make you better than pads unless you prefer playing with them.

2. No one compares to sakonoko. Ever. Don't blaspheme against the gods please.
Hey i said "close" i should've re-written, pretty decent Ibuki, though Sako was the one to actually inspire me to play Ibuki competitively tho, on his hey days no one achieved that level, not even Pugera and Shimauta.

Also agree with your point 1, reason why i preferred to play MK9 with Pad specially Skarlet because i couldn't really do iaDs on stick not only due the input bug, but since i played MK9 2years straight on Pad, changing to stick was giving me executions conflicts and this particular change was pretty crucial, since it was hard to adapt to it, i kept playing MK9 with pad.

But then focused on playing every other fighting game with stick only, reason why i was a 98% stick fighter in MKX since its release.
 
Hey i said "close" i should've re-written, pretty decent Ibuki, though Sako was the one to actually inspire me to play Ibuki competitively tho, on his hey days no one achieved that level, not even Pugera and Shimauta.

Also agree with your point 1, reason why i preferred to play MK9 with Pad specially Skarlet because i couldn't really do iaDs on stick not only due the input bug, but since i played MK9 2years straight on Pad, changing to stick was giving me executions conflicts and this particular change was pretty crucial, since it was hard to adapt to it, i kept playing MK9 with pad.

But then focused on playing every other fighting game with stick only, reason why i was a 98% stick fighter in MKX since its release.
It's cool. We all wanna be like our heroes. And I know when I play ryu and do something godlike I'm like "did you see me daigo that guy"!