Street Fighter V General Discussion

So 2 bars or 3 is better for vtrigger? I've always thought 2 were better.

I'm so glad that cr.hp is a CC now with Guile. I pretty much just meaty with that all the time after flash kick because you can cover all wakeup techs and combo. Now that it's a CC... We in there lol.

Also Cammy gets an Air Throw. How godlike is that!!!

ILuvFightGames said:

So 2 bars or 3 is better for vtrigger? I've always thought 2 were better.

Click to expand...

2 bar triggers are usually weaker than 3 but it's possible to build 2 in a round so I can't see them keeping Guile's v-trigger booms the same it wouldn't be broken like Ibuki having 2 bars but I don't see them buffing Guile at all like that.

Again the character's weren't all thoroughly tested and this isn't final build so who knows just hope they post the notes next week. I'm hoping for a surprise new engine mechanic

Scott The Scot said:

I'm so glad that cr.hp is a CC now with Guile. I pretty much just meaty with that all the time after flash kick because you can cover all wakeup techs and combo. Now that it's a CC... We in there lol.

Also Cammy gets an Air Throw. How godlike is that!!!

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Apparently they nerfed her dive kicks.

Can you explain the value of the change to his CC button? I haven't played guile in awhile.

B. Shazzy said:

Why are they buffing urien this hard lmao

Click to expand...

Right? What is the thinking here lol.

Kroaken said:

Fair enough. Apparently they nerfed her dive kicks.

Can you explain the value of the change to his CC button? I haven't played guile in awhile.

Click to expand...

Well hp will no longer CC. It would usually launch them in air to allow a juggle. So now you'd be able to just convert normally.

With cr.hp being a CC it'll allow you to have
1) Easy meaties that grant a high damage followup.
2) Potentially get a follow up from ant air attacks (I hope this is the case)

"Also, meter building is supposedly much slower"

Ibuki better get some good shit, cause something like this kicks her and Vega in the ASS.

buyacushun said:

What's everyone's thoughts on invincibility needing meter? I'm not too fond of it. I hope that and no midscreen throw pressure aren't cast wide changes. Could lead to a lot of "just throw me" situations to get back to neutral. And I feel like it increases the homogenization problem some people have with the game.

Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of any "general rules". I think you can balance characters without forcing them to fit into the same general archetype, it just seems like lazy balance design, and yeah if throws just reset neutral and a ch combo does 400 dmg I'm taking that throw, every single time.

Ultimately winning by outplaying your opponent in neutral sounds like a fighting game to me

@MylesWright_ said:

Ultimately winning by outplaying your opponent in neutral sounds like a fighting game to me

Click to expand...

It's how a lot of characters win in fighting games, it's never been how they all do, and it still won't.

Rip Torn said:

I'm a fan of throws not leading into pressure midscreen. I think it was a good change that will improve the neutral game. There were just too many throw loops. Now, you need to have them in the corner (so I've heard) to get oki off a throw.

Invincible DP's needing meter I'm on the fence about. For a character like Necalli or Cammy, I think it's a good change. For Ryu, I think it's kind of weird and it's really going to hurt him in the long run. He was designed to have that so I hope they buffed him in other ways. Also, meter building is supposedly much slower, so you won't have as much meter to use on invincible DP's. With the nerf to DP's and white life regenerating slower, it's going to make the game more about pressure, which is actually more interesting.

Click to expand...

I agree with you there. Some characters could get a Juri treatment with a DP with later invincibility for anti airs and EX has it throughout. I think that way great reactions are emphasised.

Hopefully the notes show less general changes.

Kroaken said:

Wellp. I for one don't play those scrubby dp chars so I am for it

Click to expand...

Neither do I but beating them might get stale if I have to wait for them to build meter while meter building been reduced so I can bait DP for that sweet CC damage.

FL Rushdown said:

I'm not a fan of any "general rules". I think you can balance characters without forcing them to fit into the same general archetype, it just seems like lazy balance design, and yeah if throws just reset neutral and a ch combo does 400 dmg I'm taking that throw, every single time.

Click to expand...

Yeah I really hope that's not the case. The throw game can be OD but this change could make it stale until people get really low.

I still say adding a roll forward would've helped the wakeup game so much.

@MylesWright_ said:

Ultimately winning by outplaying your opponent in neutral sounds like a fighting game to me

Click to expand...

Yeah but a lot of fighting games make you work to get back to back to neutral. Now unless it's a command grab there's much less risk/reward in just holding back and we still have the jump tech OS.

Ryu and Nash could do without a heavy throw game but Cammy, or Bison could be fine with at least one throw giving great oki.

buyacushun said:

Yeah but a lot of fighting games make you work to get back to back to neutral. Now unless it's a command grab there's much less risk/reward in just holding back and we still have the jump tech OS.

Ryu and Nash could do without a heavy throw game but Cammy, or Bison could be fine with at least one throw giving great oki.

Click to expand...

They are tweaking grey health as well as hurtbox and recovery on normals. It's going from a game where you just throw yourself at people and setplay them to death to one more about footsies

@MylesWright_ said:

They are tweaking grey health as well as hurtbox and recovery on normals. It's going from a game where you just throw yourself at people and setplay them to death to one more about footsies

Click to expand...

The game's neutral needed some tweaks but the this change to risk/reward for throws goes against the the system that was in place before. More frame delay would've done wonders for the neutral. Some whiff recovery changes would also be great (please nerf Mika's roll this way Capcom). But there should be characters that can pressure heavy with throws. Why eliminate styles of play especially when that's a major complaint against the game?

If grey life recovers slower then wouldn't that be good for pressure/mixups? More chance to chunk off health after blocking.

buyacushun said:

I agree with you there. Some characters could get a Juri treatment with a DP with later invincibility for anti airs and EX has it throughout. I think that way great reactions are emphasised.

Hopefully the notes show less general changes.

Click to expand...

I already read somewhere (pvplive.net?) that certain DPs will be invincible on startup but vulnerable to throws. Other DPs will not be throwable but can be meatied. Other DPs will have upper body invincibility only. So it looks like you will have to be very selective with which DP you use in each situation. Only the EX DP will be the catch all that wins vs everything except block.

We'll have to wait for patch notes to see which characters have better/worse DP's all around. Could be that some characters gained a startup invincible meterless DP that is throwable.

To who haven't read the patch notes:



STREET FIGHTER V (Season 2) Build @Playstation Experience 2016
Please take note that these changes were tested and applied to during regular matches. These are not official Capcom patch notes but compiled myself through countless matches as I had to wait in line to try over the 2 days at PSX ^_^
*The list contains notable changes for the cast that I was able to collect. I don’t have all the changes obviously due to time constraint but this is as much as I was able to gather


Overall game mechanic changes involves
-Added recovery frames off of command throws and regular throws

-More push back on lights and certain crush counters
-Wake up meterless reversals like DP are active on frame 3 unless they are EX

-V trigger bars changed from 3 to 2 for some characters


[AKUMA]
-875 Health
-Moderate walk speed

-3 Bar V-Trigger

-V-Reversal knocks down

-KKZ = QCF x2 +P

-V Trigger cancel off of any normal and grounded special move

-Can cancel normals into Raging Demon on whiff
-Raging demon accessible in V-Trigger mode only

-Ex Demon Flip is projectile invincible on start up ( similar to Vega ex rolling crystal flash)

-Ex Demon Flip can go behind opponent like Cammy hooligan and come back with dive kick follow up ( strikes mid and can cross up )
*Possibly demon flip grab from other side???
-st.mk has good reach and force stands
-crush counters are cr.hp / st.hp / st.hk
-b+hp is an AA and launcher that is special cancelable
-HP DP is throw invincible
-BNB Combos
->cr.hp->st.mk->v skill k follow up (launcher) -> v skill p follow up ( palm )
* builds good meter like necalli/karin style
-> cr.mp->st.mk->tatsu->hp dp
-> cr.mp->st.mk->v skill + k follow up ( launcher ) ->demon flip + p
-> st.hk TC (2 hits) -> st.mk/st.mp-> v skill + k follow up (launcer) ->ex demon flip + k follow up (dive kick) -> hp DP
-> CC st hk-> st.hk TC (2 hits) xxx v trigger -> st.mk->v skill k follow up (launcher) xxx KKZ


[ALEX]

-EX air command grab positions ALEX further away than before. He can no longer dash up and be as advantageous as before (RIP)

-F+HP on block slightly pushes him back more

-F+HP on hit changed from +5 -> +6 ( at the very least and possibly higher)
* F+HP(+6) -> st. mp (6f) is now possible to combo without crush counter ^_^
-cr.hp as an AA is more successful now due to decrease in start up frames as it appears
-Powerbomb leaves him at a further position. Auto timing for lp elbow slash requires micro step to reach now

-cr.lp now can combo into lp flash chop outside of counter hit

-Air stampede (-5 on block) creates more of a push back on block. Could possibly be spaced out to make it even more difficult to punish on block by 5 frame moves (limbs) or faster. Can punish w/Karin CA(5f) but could not punish 100% with cr.mp/st.mp(5f)
-New BNB
-> f+hp->st.mp->st.lk->ex flash chop
-> cr.lk->cr.lp-> lp flash chop
-> f.hp->st.mp xxx VTrigger -> st.hp-> sledgehammer -> suplex





[M.Bison]

-st.lk start up frames changed from 4f->3f
-HP psycho inferno on hit can link into lp psycho ball

-DF+HP (Psycho Axe) -> cr.mk is now possible to combo outside of crush counter
*Either Psycho axe went from (6->7) on hit or cr.mk went from (7f-6f) startup to make this work

-Ex headstomp connecting to airborne opponent can follow up to skull driver regardless of height
*Skull driver drops at a faster rate to make this possible now

-V skill can now absorb 1 projectile and be stored. Input v skill command again to release projectile

-V Trigger lk scissors is plus

-TC (mp->df+hp) speed increased


[JURI]

-pinwheel motion changed from Kicks -> Punches

-V skill start up seems faster now, especially full charged v skill

-Less push back on st.mp


[GUILE]

-V trigger bar changed from 3->2
-cr.mp creates further push back now
- due to cr.mp increase in push back, current Sonic Boom loops are no longer possible
*perhaps new ways to do so will be possible ; )

-st.hp no longer crusher counters
-cr.hp now causes crush counter state






[CHUN-LI]

-air legs have been changed from plus frames to negative (-2)
-cr.lk is now special cancelable into lightning legs
-regular lightning legs (2 hit) is cancelable into V-Trigger
-ex lightning legs ( 1st rotation ) is cancelable into V-Trigger
-push back added to cr.lp/st.lp

-increased recovery on fireballs
-New BNB
-> CC b+hp -> Ex Lightning Legs(1st rotation) xxx V-Trigger-> b+hp-> Ex Lightning Legs
->cr.lk x2 -> ex lightning legs


[ZANGIEF]
-Lariat hits crouching opponent now
-st.lk vaccums opponent in now allowing for better combo potential into lariat

-cannot tech backwards after getting hit by lariat ?


[BIRDIE]
-st.HP causes crush counter state now(?)
-MK/HK bull revenger seems like it grabs faster
-penguin dive has less push back on block now. A bit easier to punish on block
- More push back on HP Bull Head


[NECALLI]

-Damage scaling increased during combos but not significant
-command grab changed from Punches -> kicks

-Disk guidance has armor on frame 1 now





[DHALSIM]
-V trigger stays out even if hit on activation ( i.e using reversal against the activation)
-st.hp speed increased?
- st.lk changed from 5f->4f


[KEN]
-b+mp changed from 4f->5f
-v skill step kick pops opponent up higher now

-TC (b+mp->hp) xxx v skill step kick -> ex dp is possible now

-air ex tatsu is negative on block if it lands above the knees of opponent

-air medium tatsu increased in hurtbox and less active frames

-HP DP is throw invincible


[NASH]
-slower start up on moonsault
-increased recovery frames on back dash
-distance shortened on back dash
-increased recovery frames on v trigger

[R.MIKA]
-increased start up on f+mp (irish whip) Visually looks really slow

-can no longer choose direction of where to throw your opponent during irish whip
( b+mp = backward/ f+mp= forward)

-”invisible wall” is removed during irish whip meaning you can no longer back dash and create the wall for opponent to bounce off of

-increased frame on cr.hk slide
-looks like more recovery frame after landing Brimstone command grab ( K command grab)





[CAMMY]
-increased recovery frame on all dive kicks. EX has to land on the knee or lower to be ‘safe’
-air throw added


[URIEN]

-Aegis Reflector seems to stay out longer than before

-cr.mk change from -2 -> +1 on block
-cr.mp changed from 0 -> +1 on block
- step kick ( b+hk) changed to df+hk

-cross up lk is added

[LAURA]

-cr.lp->lp elbow can now combo outside of counter hit
-ex thunder clap positions opponent higher now on hit in non v trigger state

-V Reversal push back distance increased
-auto timed oki ( i.e back throw ->dash ) is no longer advantageous due to added recovery on throws


[KARIN]
-st.lk changed from +3->+1 on block
-added push back on st.hp on block
-aerial TC added ( hits airborne only)

-V Reversal push back distance increased

[VEGA]
-cr.hp (no claw) causes crush counter state now

-travel distance for ex crystal flash is decreased

-Buster claw ( F+hp) spins opponent in the air now instead of grounded spin when landing a crush counter

Characters that didn’t seem to change much at all
Rashid - Ryu - Ibuki - Balrog - FANG


Ken is dead, Mika is Dead, Rip Cammy, Ibuki is getting the Kenshi treatment.

buyacushun said:

The game's neutral needed some tweaks but the this change to risk/reward for throws goes against the the system that was in place before. More frame delay would've done wonders for the neutral. Some whiff recovery changes would also be great (please nerf Mika's roll this way Capcom). But there should be characters that can pressure heavy with throws. Why eliminate styles of play especially when that's a major complaint against the game?

If grey life recovers slower then wouldn't that be good for pressure/mixups? More chance to chunk off health after blocking.

Click to expand...

Not for Gief, V-Skill revolves around grey life.

Wouldn't throws now causing a reset just make almost everyone just take the throw instead of risking lots of damage?

ILuvFightGames said:

Wouldn't throws now causing a reset just make almost everyone just take the throw instead of risking lots of damage?

Click to expand...

I'll take my free damage every time I get in if that's the case lol. At least until you get worn down enough to the point that you start teching

So much is up in the air right now. They REALLY need to release the official friggin patch notes ASAP.

Scott The Scot said:

I'll take my free damage every time I get in if that's the case lol.

Click to expand...

See this is my thinking..if you want to just eat the throw and no risk a combo good. this just means when I decide to throw I'll get my 120-130 free damage and we can reset the situation.

I thought throw loops were one of the saddest and dumbest things I have seen in a fighting. I welcome a game that lets you get up off the damn ground and continue playing instead of rolling you in to a situation where you absolutely must legitimately guess between one of several options.

MKx caught ENORMOUS shit for its 50/50 nature originally. It's just guessing, no footsies etc, then sfv does something damn similar and half the world is screaming FUCK YEAH THIS IS SUPER TECHNICAL AWESOMS FOOTSIE MAGIC! Look paw! That there guy got knocked down and that there other guy is gonna stand on top of him and throw him 5 times because the poor.fucker had to guess.between numerous options and if he DOES throw tech it's fuxking CCable so he'll eat 60000 damage.

I think some pros were already taking the throw , because the tech itself was so risky.

EntropicByDesign said:

See this is my thinking..if you want to just eat the throw and no risk a combo good. this just means when I decide to throw I'll get my 120-130 free damage and we can reset the situation.

I thought throw loops were one of the saddest and dumbest things I have seen in a fighting. I welcome a game that lets you get up off the damn ground and continue playing instead of rolling you in to a situation where you absolutely must legitimately guess between one of several options.

MKx caught ENORMOUS shit for its 50/50 nature originally. It's just guessing, no footsies etc, then sfv does something damn similar and half the world is screaming FUCK YEAH THIS IS SUPER TECHNICAL AWESOMS FOOTSIE MAGIC! Look paw! That there guy got knocked down and that there other guy is gonna stand on top of him and throw him 5 times because the poor.fucker had to guess.between numerous options and if he DOES throw tech it's fuxking CCable so he'll eat 60000 damage.

I think some pros were already taking the throw , because the tech itself was so risky.

Click to expand...

My god... That's one of the most beautiful things I've ever read. Cheers homie!

Rip Torn said:

I already read somewhere (pvplive.net?) that certain DPs will be invincible on startup but vulnerable to throws. Other DPs will not be throwable but can be meatied. Other DPs will have upper body invincibility only. So it looks like you will have to be very selective with which DP you use in each situation. Only the EX DP will be the catch all that wins vs everything except block.

Click to expand...

That sounds wonderful. I saw that's what they did with Juri and thought it'd be great for everyone.

Rip Torn said:

We'll have to wait for patch notes to see which characters have better/worse DP's all around. Could be that some characters gained a startup invincible meterless DP that is throwable.

Click to expand...

Yeah patch notes got me excited yet again. Never fails.

Eddy Wang said:

Ken is dead, Mika is Dead, Rip Cammy, Ibuki is getting the Kenshi treatment.

Click to expand...

Going soley off those notes what makes you say that?

JJvercetti said:

Not for Gief, V-Skill revolves around grey life.

Click to expand...

I'm saying the grey life recovering slower makes it more favorable to be attacking. Slower grey recovery = more of a chance to chunk health from a stray hit.

buyacushun said:

That sounds wonderful. I saw that's what they did with Juri and thought it'd be great for everyone.


Yeah patch notes got me excited yet again. Never fails.


Going soley off those notes what makes you say that?


I'm saying the grey life recovering slower makes it more favorable to be attacking. Slower grey recovery = more of a chance to chunk health from a stray hit.

Click to expand...

To the Zangief thing, that's exactly what he's saying. V-Skill costs gray life. Standing fierce costs gray life. And we can't generate offense at nearly the rate of most of the cast. So yeah. Looks REALLY bad for Zangief.

buyacushun said:

The game's neutral needed some tweaks but the this change to risk/reward for throws goes against the the system that was in place before. More frame delay would've done wonders for the neutral. Some whiff recovery changes would also be great (please nerf Mika's roll this way Capcom). But there should be characters that can pressure heavy with throws. Why eliminate styles of play especially when that's a major complaint against the game?

If grey life recovers slower then wouldn't that be good for pressure/mixups? More chance to chunk off health after blocking.

Click to expand...

They'll be some characters that get oki from throws. Mika still has midscreen command grab loops apparently and she might oki off her throws just because she doesn't build gray damage with pressure unless they change her frame data

Kroaken is very familiar with my ranting about SFV. To the point of nausea I'd say.

First, I like the game. I just intensely dislike certain aspects of it. It's made worse by the fact that the game is so close to being incredible. It just needs more over-all variety in terms of approach/style, some tweaks and some balance changes.

Yes, sfv is a balanced game, by and large, it is very balanced and at the level I play at, it's EXTREMELY balanced. But it's not as perfect as people claimed it was, not at the top of the tower. I don't care how good you are, some characters were simply not going to win and as the community leveled up collectively the tier-gap was increasing. Not to mention the few times I have ventured in to online random play all I ever see are the handful of core characters with an errant Gief or occasional 'i want to see titties' Laura player.