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General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Why are people disregarding Thunder god raiden now? I still think he is in close competition with displacer. Yes, displacer has tele, but thundergod still has the insane wakeup. He also builds a lot of meter which gives him his corner set ups and his armour. The "Which is better? Tg or D" argument is far closer than everyone thinks, IMO
Thunder God still having EX-DB2 isn't really a TG-specific pro is it?

In any case, Thunder God isn't too bad no. Displacer is definitely better, but there is still a place for Thunder God with him having arguably the best meter building in the game, good meterless damage off of an 8-frame mid and armor breaking setups that are still good post-patch.
 

TheRealOnlyGoonie

Hey You Guys
DISPLACER SHITS ON THUNDERGOD. THUNDERGOD IS NOW ARGUABLY BOTTOM 5 VARIATION, AND IS COMPLETLY POINTLESS TO PLAY NOW. IF YOUR CONTINUING TO PLAY THUNDERGOD YOU ARE LIVING THE PAST. ITS TIME TO MOVE TO ARGUBLY THE BEST VARIATION IN THE GAME. AND THATS DISPLACER
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
DISPLACER SHITS ON THUNDERGOD. THUNDERGOD IS NOW ARGUABLY BOTTOM 5 VARIATION, AND IS COMPLETLY POINTLESS TO PLAY NOW. IF YOUR CONTINUING TO PLAY THUNDERGOD YOU ARE LIVING THE PAST. ITS TIME TO MOVE TO ARGUBLY THE BEST VARIATION IN THE GAME. AND THATS DISPLACER
You can't tell me what to do Goonie, I'm sticking with Thunder God purely to spite you :DOGE
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
THE ONLY THING THAT IS LOL, IS THAT SHIT VARIATION THUNDER GOD. WOW THAT SHIT BAD.
I mean he still has the best meter building in the game and armor breaking setups that work on a lot of characters post patch, not to mention B1. It's not enough to make him better than Displacer, but it's still plenty to work with.
 
DISPLACER SHITS ON THUNDERGOD. THUNDERGOD IS NOW ARGUABLY BOTTOM 5 VARIATION, AND IS COMPLETLY POINTLESS TO PLAY NOW. IF YOUR CONTINUING TO PLAY THUNDERGOD YOU ARE LIVING THE PAST. ITS TIME TO MOVE TO ARGUBLY THE BEST VARIATION IN THE GAME. AND THATS DISPLACER
Why is tg bottom 5? What changes nerfed him so bad? I agree he wasn't top tier even before the patch but in your opinion what makes him worse now than pre-patch?
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
TG Raiden only remaining strength now is other people's lack of knowledge of the matchup. because there are very few good ThunderGod players out there, Opponents respect stuff that they shouldn't respect and miss punishes that they shouldn't miss, So yes ThunderGod is still okay in casuals. In fact, he is not even close to being bad.

That being said, when it comes to high level tournament standards however, it's safe to say that the variation is no longer viable. ThunderGod is actually more lacking than he was in the previous meta and his pick would now be very situational if non existence at all. His stamina management is now a nightmare, his block pressure is over and what little mid screen game he used to have..has nearly diminished.
 
Block pressure ? You realize that, pre-patch, he had 0 blockstring requiring stamina ? (Ex ball isn't counted here since it still work).
All his lrc weren't viable on block, if you knew the mu like you said. You could just backdash if you expected a lrc and you fucked up the pressure because b11 doesn't reach a backdash.
All he lost was armor launcher and some dmg because of lrc and stamina stuff. Well if you just end by thunderfly, you just lose between 5-10% dmg, but still a corner carry.
Now analyze this patch, all armored armors disappeared. So less wake up from enemies = go search for some mix ups when your opponent gets up, if he wake up armor, you just get 16% at max (command grabs) or make your opponent waste 2 bars.
Raiden won a strong anti poke - pressure standing tool and can now poke cancel into shocker. It's just another way of playing, no more run f12b2 b14 lrc 214, just f12b2 b14 thunderfly then corner game. Because this variation is more about corner than midscreen, instead of displacer.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I was labbing Thunder God Raiden, and I noticed some disastrous shits here.

I tried various combos into X-Ray, and I'm like WTF when I saw that when doing any small combo, such as B1122xxX-Ray. Unlike some other combos cancelled into X-Ray and standalone X-Ray, this one packs only... 4% damage! The B1122 packs only 13%. The standalone X-Ray packs 31%. The same happens with the other combos cancelled into X-Ray. Here's the full list from the worst in top list till the better:

B1122(H)xxX-Ray = 17%
F22+4(H)xxX-Ray = 19%
F32+4(H)xxX-Ray = 19%
B32(H), B32(H), B32(H)xxX-Ray = 23%
B32(H)xxX-Ray = 26%
F12B2(H)xxX-Ray = 26%
B34xxX-Ray = 31%
X-Ray = 31%
F12xxX-Ray = 32%
F24xxX-Ray = 34%
B11xxX-Ray = 34%
34xxX-Ray = 36%
B14xxX-Ray = 36%
B2xxX-Ray = 37%
214xxX-Ray = 39%

As far as I know, any small combo cancelled into X-Ray could give you more than 35%, and that's universal in the whole game.

B33 and 213 don't work and can't cancel with X-Ray.

Concluding, I think the culprit could be only the thunder combos. Raiden is supposed to be the lightning God and would pack much more, but this? :(

X-Ray coming out from any thunder combo got nerfed or is it my idea?
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
X-Ray coming out from any thunder combo got nerfed or is it my idea?
Lightning strings have a lot of damage scaling on them on purpose. Also X-rays in general suffer a lot from damage scaling. Solution: don't use an X-ray after a Thunder God string.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Lightning strings have a lot of damage scaling on them on purpose. Also X-rays in general suffer a lot from damage scaling. Solution: don't use an X-ray after a Thunder God string.
So only the universal combos do work with X-Ray to give more damage, unlike the variation exclusive strings? :S
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
So only the universal combos do work with X-Ray to give more damage, unlike the variation exclusive strings? :S
Pretty much. The held Thunder God strings should generally be used for meter building, armor breaking, or as an ender during specific combos. F12B2 and B32 unheld have plenty of use, but B1122 for instance is for side switching and meter building only. It has way too much scaling to be viable as a combo starter.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Pretty much. The held Thunder God strings should generally be used for meter building, armor breaking, or as an ender during specific combos. F12B2 and B32 unheld have plenty of use, but B1122 for instance is for side switching and meter building only. It has way too much scaling to be viable as a combo starter.
I see. Makes sense. :/

Now I'm trying to learn as fast as possible the LRC to return myself into MKX after a long resting on my thumb. :/

I can do 2/10 only the B12xxLRC cancelled into another combo. This one is way harder than doing the EX DF2, which gives more stun impact. I'm trying to reach the goal of getting used to this LRC again and start playing Raiden.
 
If you want to xray, just launch it as soon as your opponent jumps, it hits almost fullscreen.
I agree with what @DDutchguy said about thunder strings. They are a huge hitconfirm to thunderfly for corner carry, that alone is a major point for this variation.

B11 lrc can combo up to a 10f moves, if you want to master it, try b11 lrc 214
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
If you want to xray, just launch it as soon as your opponent jumps, it hits almost fullscreen.
I agree with what @DDutchguy said about thunder strings. They are a huge hitconfirm to thunderfly for corner carry, that alone is a major point for this variation.

B11 lrc can combo up to a 10f moves, if you want to master it, try b11 lrc 214
34 links off of a b11 lrc, at least in the corner, and that's 12f iirc
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
If you want to xray, just launch it as soon as your opponent jumps, it hits almost fullscreen.
I agree with what @DDutchguy said about thunder strings. They are a huge hitconfirm to thunderfly for corner carry, that alone is a major point for this variation.

B11 lrc can combo up to a 10f moves, if you want to master it, try b11 lrc 214
Noted, Will do. Thanks for the tip.

34 links off of a b11 lrc, at least in the corner, and that's 12f iirc
Very interesting.

I'll have to re-master the LRC to get used to it before trying them out.
 
If b11 lrc links to 214, It's obvious you could link to a 10f move. Standing 3 is one, you can do in corner b14 lrc 3 also
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
34 AND b2 links to b14 all screen, you need to run if you're midscreen. With shocker ex, you can continue to b14 lrc... This fact is old lol
I knew 34 and B2 linked to B14 LRC, but I didn't know B11 linked to 34 in the corner.
 
Yeah misread the post, I edited it. B14 lrc 34 (3 2+4) is possible and harder to do. I gave a combo in the special setup thread
 

rainuS

Prince of Edenia
Can you guys check if f12b2 x3 works on Goro? I can do it on females but it drops on Goro after 2nd rep constantly. Maybe its a hitbox issue?
 

rainuS

Prince of Edenia
Can you post a video? I would like to see stamina level u use and maybe i can learn it but so far no success :(