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Breakthrough - Hat Trick Technical - Making your Call backs -2 on block instead of -7

Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist


The video speaks for itself.
First of all i want to let you know, that this isn't as big as some of you might think it its, it will actually be very dificult to implement into one's game without continuous matches and so on, but its definitely a technical aspect that Hat Trick players will be forced to learn and implement in their game if they want to be that safe.

Secondly, combo from above trap will be a challenge midscreen and in the corner you will be forced to use dive kick, the risk however is on the opponent's favor since you can only combo from a dive kick in the corner when the hat is at any direction, placing a trap to apply pressure have always been dificult with KL because he is minus at his best strings and very punishable from some others.

and finally, this will encourage you to have your traps in places where it won't hit the opponent, leading them to take more risks because at the best you're getting pressure, and then combo them from ways they weren't exactly expecting at all, like using call back links, dive kick links and much more.

Still, i would prefer if my call backs to be -5 if blocked, so characters like scorpion cannot get a free d1 everytime they block one, and reptile can't just simply armor every possible call back at the obvious ranges preventing KL to build meter, apply pressure, anything, the reptile MU is probably the first official 7-3 at reptile's favor at worst.

@Youphemism
@ROG Moonspell
@16bit
@just_2swift
@The PantyChrist
@Big Pampering
@Carl
@Roko1985
@ETC Mcfly
@colt
@myri
@YOMI FOREVER KING
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Eddy Wang said:


The video speaks for itself.
First of all i want to let you know, that this isn't as big as some of you might think it its, it will actually be very dificult to implement into one's game without continuous matches and so on, but its definitely a technical aspect that Hat Trick players will be forced to learn and implement in their game if they want to be that safe.

Secondly, combo from above trap will be a challenge midscreen and in the corner you will be forced to use dive kick, the risk however is on the opponent's favor since you can only combo from a dive kick in the corner when the hat is at any direction, placing a trap to apply pressure have always been dificult with KL because he is minus at his best strings and very punishable from some others.

and finally, this will encourage you to have your traps in places where it won't hit the opponent, leading them to take more risks because at the best you're getting pressure, and then combo them from ways they weren't exactly expecting at all, like using call back links, dive kick links and much more.

Still, i would prefer if my call backs to be -5 if blocked, so characters like scorpion cannot get a free d1 everytime they block one, and reptile can't just simply armor every possible call back at the obvious ranges preventing KL to build meter, apply pressure, anything, the reptile MU is probably the first official 7-3 at reptile's favor at worst.

@Youphemism
@ROG Moonspell
@16bit
@just_2swift
@The PantyChrist
@Big Pampering
@Carl
@Roko1985
@ETC Mcfly
@colt
@myri
@YOMI FOREVER KING
Click to expand...
Well if I remember what I said in the DM correctly when you asked about this a while back whiffed callbacks make blockstrings 4 frames safer than their hat trap cancels so technically the best you could get up to is +2 from 3~whiffed callback.
myri said:
Yeah all those people finding stuff for Hat Trick, totally not just Eddy doing everything haha.
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Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse meeeeeeeeeee
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Youphemism said:
Well if I remember what I said in the DM correctly when you asked about this a while back whiffed callbacks make blockstrings 4 frames safer than their hat trap cancels so technically the best you could get up to is +2 from 3~whiffed callback.

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse meeeeeeeeeee
Click to expand...
so +2 from standing 3 and -2 or so from all his -5 strings, need to check F3 as well since is +1 on block.

I wish we had this on hat traps.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Mr Wang, remember when I said the further behind your opponent you throw the hat, the less - HCB will be, and you thought it wasn't a thing?

Don't you demonstrate this yourself at 1:06 when you block Reptiles ExSlide punish on a HCB? It must shave off some frames else he'd have punished you.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The_Tile said:
Mr Wang, remember when I said the further behind your opponent you throw the hat, the less - HCB will be, and you thought it wasn't a thing?

Don't you demonstrate this yourself at 1:06 when you block Reptiles ExSlide punish on a HCB? It must shave off some frames else he'd have punished you.
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it doesn't, its just range, the ex dash won't punish you at blast radius only, but that's a raw call back, however a 6f poke will, KL spin also cannot punish it up close, on the same ranges where reptile punshes it will, its just the recovery of the call back, the longer it takes to hit the opponent the earlier he is able to move, but he is not plus whatsovever, as long as the gap exists anyone can armor out of it
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Eddy Wang said:
it doesn't, its just range, the ex dash won't punish you at blast radius only, but that's a raw call back, however a 6f poke will, KL spin also cannot punish it up close, on the same ranges where reptile punshes it will, its just the recovery of the call back, the longer it takes to hit the opponent the earlier he is able to move, but he is not plus whatsovever, as long as the gap exists anyone can armor out of it
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I don't think I understand cause there isn't anything else in the game like this, is there?

And it can't be distance because you're closer to Reptile when you block slide than when he punishes you.

If you're able to move x frames after HCB regardless of at what point hat hits, but the opponent can move at y frames after they actually block HCB. Then you should be less - if the actual hat hits them later than usual because your recovery ends at the same time while theirs ends later because the hat hit later.

@Youphemism help me out here.
 
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Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The_Tile said:
I don't think I understand cause there isn't anything else in the game like this, is there?

And it can't be distance because you're closer to Reptile when you block slide than when he punishes you.

If you're able to move x frames after HCB regardless of at what point hat hits, but the opponent can move at x frames after they actually block HCB. Then you should be less - if the actual hat hits them later than usual because your recovery ends at the same time while there's ends later than usual because it started later.

@Youphemism help me out here.
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yes, call back still has no blockstun whatsoever, so its active frames won't matter much, a blocked call back up close is -7 and a 6f poke punishes, but a 7f reversal special cannot, however at midscreen reptile can punish call back, same as tempest and a few more characters, but can't punish up close.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Eddy Wang said:
yes, call back still has no blockstun whatsoever, so its active frames won't matter much, a blocked call back up close is -7 and a 6f poke punishes, but a 7f reversal special cannot, however at midscreen reptile can punish call back, same as tempest and a few more characters, but can't punish up close.
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I've just tested it myself and I am correct. Go into practice mode and throw a hat trap on Reptile, so it doesn't have to travel before it hits him. No matter how far you stand from him, within reason, ExSlide will punish you.

Do the same thing but put the trap slightly behind Reptile, no matter whether you're up close or far away he won't be able to punish you because HCB is less - than it usually is because of the travelling frames before the hat hits them. Test it yourself, I've just recorded a vid on my xbox too and will upload soon if you need me to.
 
Carl

Carl

Noob
Eddy i love this stuff bra.

Still adapting to this variation i just need patience when i throw the hat out.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The_Tile said:
I've just tested it myself and I am correct. Go into practice mode and throw a hat trap on Reptile, so it doesn't have to travel before it hits him. No matter how far you stand from him, within reason, ExSlide will punish you.

Do the same thing but put the trap slightly behind Reptile, no matter whether you're up close or far away he won't be able to punish you because HCB is less - than it usually is because of the travelling frames before the hat hits them. Test it yourself, I've just recorded a vid on my xbox too and will upload soon if you need me to.
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its a simple concept don't need to over complicate things.

Call backs cannot be made plus, that is the only counter argument i'm presenting here since the beginning, the longer the hat takes to hit the opponent it makes you less minus indeed, but that won't make you plus. when the hat is up close is -7 which is what you will constantly get even on corners, midscreen the numbers will round from -6 to -7 depending of how close they're on call back startup.

When they're further away it varies but it cannot be made plus unless you burn a bar.

The max you get to extend a call back is +20 on block at cost of meter of course.
 
The_Tile

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Eddy Wang said:
its a simple concept don't need to over complicate things.

Call backs cannot be made plus, that is the only counter argument i'm presenting here since the beginning, the longer the hat takes to hit the opponent it makes you less minus indeed, but that won't make you plus. when the hat is up close is -7 which is what you will constantly get even on corners, midscreen the numbers will round from -6 to -7 depending of how close they're on call back startup.

When they're further away it varies but it cannot be made plus unless you burn a bar.

The max you get to extend a call back is +20 on block at cost of meter of course.
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I guessed it couldn't be made plus, i was just theorizing. It was just a misunderstanding then.

I thought that you thought Reptile could punish Lao depending on where Lao is at the time and not the hat. It does not matter where Lao is in relation to the opponent at all, only where the Hat is.

And I understand it is a pretty simple concept, I just didn't think we were on the same page so I tried to explain it in simple terms but ended up rambling.

This is useful to know in a handful of MUs as it makes HCB completely safe. Mostly useless though.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Eddy Wang said:
a blocked call back up close is -7 and a 6f poke punishes, but a 7f reversal special cannot,
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This doesn't make sense. If a 6 frame poke punishes then a 7 frame reversal special will punish. If a move is -7 then both a 6 frame poke and 7 frame reversal special will both punish when done up close/as long as the first active frame hits them. That's how the game's mechanics work and have always worked. A 7 frame poke and 8 frame reversal special won't work though :p
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Youphemism said:
This doesn't make sense. If a 6 frame poke punishes then a 7 frame reversal special will punish. If a move is -7 then both a 6 frame poke and 7 frame reversal special will both punish when done up close/as long as the first active frame hits them. That's how the game's mechanics work and have always worked. A 7 frame poke and 8 frame reversal special won't work though :p
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Too much explanation and less testing.

Do you want me to simulate this happening?
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Eddy Wang said:
Too much explanation and less testing.

Do you want me to simulate this happening?
Click to expand...
Eh? I'm 99% sure there are no or very few situations that a 6 frame poke can punish something that a 7 frame reversal special can't. If you could show me a situation this isn't true then I'd be interested to see it because that goes against how the game works lol
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Youphemism said:
Eh? I'm 99% sure there are no or very few situations that a 6 frame poke can punish something that a 7 frame reversal special can't. If you could show me a situation this isn't true then I'd be interested to see it because that goes against how the game works lol
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hold on.
 
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