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Question - Royal Storm Scrub problems -Kitana style

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Hey yall, scrub here.

I just have some questions about how to deal with some particularly frustrating tactics online using the princess.

I understand that cyber sub is generally agreed to be low or mid low tier, but I really struggle against a certain play style. From full screen the player will machine gun ice blasts (which are fairly quick in terms of recovery for a capture move) which attempting to trade with is suicide, and as I neutral duck he will also throw ice grenades and an occasional ex ice blast. When I manage to semi close the distance he pulls out a particularly annoying pseudo 50/50 of either IA dive kick or slide/ex slide.

My question is simply what should I be doing here as kitana? Do I try and throw fans? Rely on ex ass to close and start offense? Be patient and crouch walk forward and block ice grenades and get him to commit to IA dk or slide and punish? I believe both moves are unsafe, do I just 21 fan toss punish? Do you guys fuzzy the slide dk mixup by blocking low a split second and then stand blocking?

I also struggle (embarrassingly) against full auto for similar reasons. Full screen guns (which I duck and step forward...then eat ex guns, low shot, or the side switch armored dash...) and up rockets give me problems. Similar questions, should I be trying to throw fans between guns? Armor in? And what buttons should I be trying in that awkward range where a jump in attack would land for me where his game plan shifts away from gunning to either up rockets on a jump read, or low rocket or ex guns?

I appreciate any help and patience with some struggles of a bad player trying to improve. If you must blow me up, so be it, but a genuine response or 2 would be greatly appreciated as I have no community to hash this stuff out.

Thanks in advance.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Hey yall, scrub here.

I just have some questions about how to deal with some particularly frustrating tactics online using the princess.

I understand that cyber sub is generally agreed to be low or mid low tier, but I really struggle against a certain play style. From full screen the player will machine gun ice blasts (which are fairly quick in terms of recovery for a capture move) which attempting to trade with is suicide, and as I neutral duck he will also throw ice grenades and an occasional ex ice blast. When I manage to semi close the distance he pulls out a particularly annoying pseudo 50/50 of either IA dive kick or slide/ex slide.

My question is simply what should I be doing here as kitana? Do I try and throw fans? Rely on ex ass to close and start offense? Be patient and crouch walk forward and block ice grenades and get him to commit to IA dk or slide and punish? I believe both moves are unsafe, do I just 21 fan toss punish? Do you guys fuzzy the slide dk mixup by blocking low a split second and then stand blocking?

I also struggle (embarrassingly) against full auto for similar reasons. Full screen guns (which I duck and step forward...then eat ex guns, low shot, or the side switch armored dash...) and up rockets give me problems. Similar questions, should I be trying to throw fans between guns? Armor in? And what buttons should I be trying in that awkward range where a jump in attack would land for me where his game plan shifts away from gunning to either up rockets on a jump read, or low rocket or ex guns?

I appreciate any help and patience with some struggles of a bad player trying to improve. If you must blow me up, so be it, but a genuine response or 2 would be greatly appreciated as I have no community to hash this stuff out.

Thanks in advance.
Do you not know that you have a reflect special move that can be held for like 3 hours?
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Thanks for the advice, and I do use reflect but I don't know why I assumed it wouldn't work on the multi hitting gunshots or the ice ball. Thank you.

Any advice on dealing with cybersub slide and ia dk "mixup"? Fuzzy the slide and release down in case the dk comes out?
 

Plymarco

Worst Kitana ever?
I think you should use royal storm against Jackie because of the reflect. Ive seen top players use mournful against her as well. As for csz idk maybe f22 for air. Im gonna try to lab it
 

MK_Al

Noob
How to beat CSZ; basics:
- Don't throw fans mindlessly. You can zone him; you can get the upper hand with reflect and throw fans afterwards. If CSZ ducks a fan he can sneak an iceball between your fans that will hit you if you are on auto pilot.
- Punish DK and slide. If you punish properly, the "50/50" is 100% in your favour since he needs to land about 3 of them to take the same dmg one of your combos does
- Don't respect the bombs to much. They have a huge recovery and you should be at least able to reposition yourself.
- Challenge his strings. Every string that launches has some downside. Either it is -8 (or more) on block which should give you a full combo punish, throw or blockstring, or it has a gap
- There are a few strings that are + on block. Backdash them.
- Avoid the corner

Good luck!
 
I'm a scrub player but ive always thought all those reflect moves were gimmicks. But I'll need to use Kitana's reflect more then.
 

Tweedy

Noob
I'm not saying CSZ is top tier or anything. This game has enough offense, to where a character can have something absurd and still not be great.

Characters should be allowed, if placed correctly, to throw a projectile at him. All i'm saying. Currently a lot of characters just cannot at all. No matter what you do, you'll always trade with his REGULAR ice ball.

Vs Sub Zero, the mind game is if he'll do EX freeze or come after you, after you duck or block an ice ball, because regular ice ball is slow enough, to where he won't just combo you when you use a well placed projectile. Cyber Sub just gives 0 fucks about any attempts at zoning and doesn't have to do anything besides regular ice ball.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I'm not saying CSZ is top tier or anything. This game has enough offense, to where a character can have something absurd and still not be great.

Characters should be allowed, if placed correctly, to throw a projectile at him. All i'm saying. Currently a lot of characters just cannot at all. No matter what you do, you'll always trade with his REGULAR ice ball.

Vs Sub Zero, the mind game is if he'll do EX freeze or come after you, after you duck or block an ice ball, because regular ice ball is slow enough, to where he won't just combo you when you use a well placed projectile. Cyber Sub just gives 0 fucks about any attempts at zoning and doesn't have to do anything besides regular ice ball.
he needs it.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
I'm not saying CSZ is top tier or anything. This game has enough offense, to where a character can have something absurd and still not be great.

Characters should be allowed, if placed correctly, to throw a projectile at him. All i'm saying. Currently a lot of characters just cannot at all. No matter what you do, you'll always trade with his REGULAR ice ball.

Vs Sub Zero, the mind game is if he'll do EX freeze or come after you, after you duck or block an ice ball, because regular ice ball is slow enough, to where he won't just combo you when you use a well placed projectile. Cyber Sub just gives 0 fucks about any attempts at zoning and doesn't have to do anything besides regular ice ball.
Throwing out a TF as Balanced from full screen, then having him whiff a slide and punish me straight up for a full combo is hilarious lol.
Apparently a full screen zoning attack should be over -40 on whiff but a full screen counter zoning attack should only be hardly -20 on whiff.
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
I don't think cyber sub is low tier tbh, he isn't top tier or anything but he does have some strong options and mind games, and his godlike counter zoning was helped even more from the meta change IMO he is high mid tier
 

Tweedy

Noob
Throwing out a TF as Balanced from full screen, then having him whiff a slide and punish me straight up for a full combo is hilarious lol.
Apparently a full screen zoning attack should be over -40 on whiff but a full screen counter zoning attack should only be hardly -20 on whiff.
Cyber Sub basically makes all zoners Balanced Kenshi. It's horrendous.

I understand that the character is not top tier, but why does everyone have to automatically play his game from full screen?
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Cyber Sub basically makes all zoners Balanced Kenshi. It's horrendous.

I understand that the character is not top tier, but why does everyone have to automatically play his game from full screen?
Fuck slides, dude. People complain about Mileena's roll going under meaty mids but nobody talks about slides going under mid projectiles, the stupid recovery on them means you can just safely slide under high and mid projectiles.
"BUT THEY'RE UNSAFE ON BLOCK" is also strawman so if somebody hits me up with this, I'm not replying.
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
Fuck slides, dude. People complain about Mileena's roll going under meaty mids but nobody talks about slides going under mid projectiles, the stupid recovery on them means you can just safely slide under high and mid projectiles.
"BUT THEY'RE UNSAFE ON BLOCK" is also strawman so if somebody hits me up with this, I'm not replying.
BUT THEY ARE UNSAFE ON BLOCK
:DOGE
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
You're wrong. It doesn't matter how bad anyone thinks the character is. The recovery on his projectile that combos you, is busted. Characters should be able to block it and shoot their projectile, without getting frozen by another non-ex iceball. It's brainless and ridiculous.
they can. Look at the start up. Smh
 
Wahhhhh!:(. Muh main has a losing match up. Waaaaaaaah!:(, snifff !:(. NSR nerf him!:mad:. You NRS guaranteed that Kitana is a top tier, then. How is possible that She has a losing match up?:mad:. He must be OP I swear (sarcasm).:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
How to beat CSZ; basics:
- Don't throw fans mindlessly. You can zone him; you can get the upper hand with reflect and throw fans afterwards. If CSZ ducks a fan he can sneak an iceball between your fans that will hit you if you are on auto pilot.
- Punish DK and slide. If you punish properly, the "50/50" is 100% in your favour since he needs to land about 3 of them to take the same dmg one of your combos does
- Don't respect the bombs to much. They have a huge recovery and you should be at least able to reposition yourself.
- Challenge his strings. Every string that launches has some downside. Either it is -8 (or more) on block which should give you a full combo punish, throw or blockstring, or it has a gap
- There are a few strings that are + on block. Backdash them.
- Avoid the corner

Good luck!
Thanks for a great reply I appreciate it, I will work on dk punishes today.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Wahhhhh!:(. Muh main has a losing match up. Waaaaaaaah!:(, snifff !:(. NSR nerf him!:mad:. You NRS guaranteed that Kitana is a top tier, then. How is possible that She has a losing match up?:mad:. He must be OP I swear (sarcasm).:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE:DOGE
Haha what in the....this is the opposite of why I made this thread.

@Tweedy
I'm not qualified to speak on tiers, and play so few matches against even semi competent csz that I couldn't even tell you the mu # vs kitana, but that mobility combined with the recovery on ice blast and then followed by an ex slide when I got in (2 hits of armor?) Was damn frustrating. His damage sucks, and I understand his strings are pretty negative, so I'm not saying at all he's great.

I just need to improve and clean up punishes.