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Street Fighter V General Discussion

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
I kinda have to agree with Myles to an extent on this one. When throws become such powerful tools in the hands of rushdown, mix-up, etc.-based characters, it's part of what relegates grapplers to their usual mid-tier (at best)/ass-tier (more often) status and that's my main problem with it. The balance between the threat of all that unblockable damage from a Gief who has to struggle his way in and a Cammy who can waltz her way in blindfolded should be heavily skewed in the former's favor.

Yes, I get that his SPD's wreak a lot more havoc when they do land than her normal throws, but if she's landing enough throws to compensate and being next to her strikes just as much fear into your heart as being next to him in part because her mixes include that very threat, the whole point of the grappler's entire struggle is significantly diminished.

Maybe I'm just biased though. #GruffBundy
Well then you actually agree with me. Command grabs should be stronger than regular throws. How do you nerf regular throws then? You give them less range and more recovery. You could also increase the startup or tech windows, but that might be taking it too far.
 
Well then you actually agree with me. Command grabs should be stronger than regular throws. How do you nerf regular throws then? You give them less range and more recovery. You could also increase the startup or tech windows, but that might be taking it too far.
command grabs ARE stronger than regular throws though. They're untechable, do more damage, have better range, and generally give you a better setup. The main reason people like Fuudo use regular throws with Mika is because they're a safer way to condition your opponent.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
command grabs ARE stronger than regular throws though. They're untechable, do more damage, have better range, and generally give you a better setup. The main reason people like Fuudo use regular throws with Mika is because they're a safer way to condition your opponent.
Exactly, they're safer. There's no reason to risk 25-40% life when you can do much safer stuff and get the same reward. I just think regular throws should be easier to punish. Fuudo understands that the risk/reward doesn't favor the command grab.
 
I kinda have to agree with Myles to an extent on this one. When throws become such powerful tools in the hands of rushdown, mix-up, etc.-based characters, it's part of what relegates grapplers to their usual mid-tier (at best)/ass-tier (more often) status and that's my main problem with it. The balance between the threat of all that unblockable damage from a Gief who has to struggle his way in and a Cammy who can waltz her way in blindfolded should be heavily skewed in the former's favor.

Yes, I get that his SPD's wreak a lot more havoc when they do land than her normal throws, but if she's landing enough throws to compensate and being next to her strikes just as much fear into your heart as being next to him in part because her mixes include that very threat, the whole point of the grappler's entire struggle is significantly diminished.

Maybe I'm just biased though. #GruffBundy
grapplers aren't "mid tier at best" though. Mika is clearly a strong character, and I'd argue that while she's not the best character in the game, she's top tier.

And cammy gets nothing off her throws unless she puts you in the corner so I don't think the comparison is fair. Gief has problems, but I don't think other characters having throws is his problem, I'd like to see him get the sf4 Abel treatment and make ex spd strike invincible and regular spd throw invincible so he can pressure with them more, but that's a different argument.
 
Exactly, they're safer. There's no reason to risk 25-40% life when you can do much safer stuff and get the same reward. I just think regular throws should be easier to punish. Fuudo understands that the risk/reward doesn't favor the command grab.
you don't get the same reward though, Mika gets more from her command grabs than she does regular throws, fuudo starts using the command grabs when he gets people to start teching, it's smarter and safer, but the tools feed one another they don't take away from each other. The threat of the command grab makes the regular ticks stronger, and the threat of the regular throws make the command grabs stronger by forcing your defense to include an option that loses to command grabs outright. If all you gotta do is guess block/jump it's a 50/50, introduce the regular throw and establish that you can punish them for jumping them with either ex wingless or cr mp and it's 33/33/33. Better odds in mikas favor that you fuck up and eat big dmg.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
you don't get the same reward though, Mika gets more from her command grabs than she does regular throws, fuudo starts using the command grabs when he gets people to start teching, it's smarter and safer, but the tools feed one another they don't take away from each other. The threat of the command grab makes the regular ticks stronger, and the threat of the regular throws make the command grabs stronger by forcing your defense to include an option that loses to command grabs outright. If all you gotta do is guess block/jump it's a 50/50, introduce the regular throw and establish that you can punish them for jumping them with either ex wingless or cr mp and it's 33/33/33. Better odds in mikas favor that you fuck up and eat big dmg.
I agree with what you are saying. command grabs are a nice tool to have. When you introduce that extra layer of mixup, grapplers are difficult to deal with. My main complaint is with how strong throws are and how there is almost no risk for throwing in this game. If Mika tries to throw you in the corner and you neutral jump, she gets a free aa into a meaty reset. I feel like she should at least have to block your attack on the way down. She'd still have the strike/throw/grab mixups, but one of them would just be a little less safe.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
grapplers aren't "mid tier at best" though. Mika is clearly a strong character, and I'd argue that while she's not the best character in the game, she's top tier.

And cammy gets nothing off her throws unless she puts you in the corner so I don't think the comparison is fair. Gief has problems, but I don't think other characters having throws is his problem, I'd like to see him get the sf4 Abel treatment and make ex spd strike invincible and regular spd throw invincible so he can pressure with them more, but that's a different argument.
Mika's as much a reset/set-up character as she is a grappler though and clearly in a league of her own primarily because of the former (which the latter certainly does compliment well though). Every other grappler in this game is buns or slightly better.

My only point is people playing characters like Cammy and Ken shouldn't be landing as much total damage off throws throughout a set as a grappler would, nor should being caught next to them strike as much fear into your heart in large part due to their ability to throw.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I realised recently I hadn't player Ryu in mooonths and so I tried to play him again. He just feels so alien to me now. I miss my divekick, I miss my can of sprite oki, I miss my sonic booms, I can't help but hold down back and charge sometimes, I miss being able to just press up+kick when I want to AA. Will I ever be able to play anybody but Cammy and Guile now? It just doesn't feel right :(
 
Mika's as much a reset/set-up character as she is a grappler though and clearly in a league of her own primarily because of the former (which the latter certainly does compliment well though). Every other grappler in this game is buns or slightly better.

My only point is people playing characters like Cammy and Ken shouldn't be landing as much total damage off throws throughout a set as a grappler would, nor should being caught next to them strike as much fear into your heart in large part due to their ability to throw.
cammy and ken have always relied heavily on throws. Remember kens kara throws? The grapplers in this game are fine. Mika is very good, Alex is decent, Laura is meh, and giefs got some problems. Vega, necalli, and birdie arent a bad batch of characters either.

Also, what grapplers aren't big on resets and setups? That's their whole deal.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Exactly, they're safer. There's no reason to risk 25-40% life when you can do much safer stuff and get the same reward. I just think regular throws should be easier to punish. Fuudo understands that the risk/reward doesn't favor the command grab.
Fuudo uses normal throw because it's strictly safer, not both safe and as rewarding.

He understands that people look for command throws, not regular throws. Everybody respects the command grab so much that a normal throw opens them up much easier.
 

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
I think I'd have a good R.Mika if I used her. Like she 'has' to command grab when she's +3o after a powerbomb and why would you command grab if people are teching your throws? If people are teching step back and irish whip them :s


You people need to spend some time using a character that is actually bad
 
I think I'd have a good R.Mika if I used her. Like she 'has' to command grab when she's +3o after a powerbomb and why would you command grab if people are teching your throws? If people are teching step back and irish whip them :s


You people need to spend some time using a character that is actually bad
prove that shit or shut the fuck up myles.

Also no, don't step back and whip them a counter hit light can confirm into st mp into clap. More dmg.
 
Prove what? It's not a secret that she is a very easy and simple top tier
like I said. Play her or shut up. I'm sick of you whining about how your character is holding you back and you're secretly godlike. Like the only thing stopping you from playing like du dang is your character.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Oops meant to say spiral arrow lol. I always confuse the names.
You confused "Spiral Arrow" to "can of sprite"?

I think I'd have a good R.Mika if I used her. Like she 'has' to command grab when she's +3o after a powerbomb and why would you command grab if people are teching your throws? If people are teching step back and irish whip them :s


You people need to spend some time using a character that is actually bad
But I play both Mika and F.A.N.G. and I'm amazing with both of them.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
You confused "Spiral Arrow" to "can of sprite"?
Yeah. I never call them by their real name. I usually call them "Divekick" and "Drill". Spiral Arrow sounds like it could be a divekick but also the drill, same with canon strike and that's why I get confused between them. Can't really explain why, but my head just doesn't remember and/or distinguish between them lol.
 

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
LOL myleswright secretly feeling himself at all the carnage he has caused in this thread "Mission Complete"
People complaining about their top tier characters smh. Next we'll have some Ryu player crying about crush counter punishes on his meterless dp


like I said. Play her or shut up. I'm sick of you whining about how your character is holding you back and you're secretly godlike. Like the only thing stopping you from playing like du dang is your character.
The fact that you feel like R.Mikas forced to take risks on command grabs when she's +30 after a normal throw shows that I have a better understanding of how the characters works than you do.

I don't know whether it's a troll or denial from you. You were even trying to defend R.Mika pushblocking people into a vortex like that's a normal thing
 
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