Discussion 10/21/16 Tier List (Spicy)

Revenant Zero said:

It's debatable due to match ups, Kenshi is a counterpick to Sub-Zero in all variations; Sub is definitely A+
Sub-Zero players who play at a high level make him S, because of their tech, adaptability and reads. (SF, Tom Brady, Buffalo, Madzin)

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but shouldn't we be using the highest level play to judge a tier list?

People act like Jax doesn't have armor AT ALL and I'm not directing that at the OP btw, I've just noticed that a lot around here recently. I feel like this is where a bunch of the misconceptions come from. Yeah, Sub Zero is tough and Quan became more difficult than before but damn dude. EX dbf1 (quad grab) still has armor and is still 11 frames. Still have EX bf4 (knee) for reckless people on oki. If you really think that a lack of armor on bf2 (dash punch) really destroys him that badly then...well I don't agree.

I honestly wish I was better at using a grappler because I feel he's the best. His buttons are so good and he's doesn't REQUIRE tick throw set-ups to succeed. People forget you can throw someone after you hit them and think just because his throw options on block aren't the best he's immediately a buns grappler. Wrestler doesn't revolve around f3 xx grab and 124 xx grab.

Edit: I should also specify that yes, Heavy Weapons is definitely buns now. Pumped Up has his place and Wrestler is still very nasty.

Shinnok shouldn't be that high up, I don't think. He kinda got hit hard in Impostor and Bone Shaper. Necromancer is still the same regardless of anything so Necromancer would still be his worst variant.

Smoke is still better then sektor imo

Also kenshi at least deserved A tier

KHTC Takgillo said:

Bad Tier list is bad Tak will not explain why and just leave saying IT S BAD

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When you're salty af that Takeda is S tier on this list lmao

BlackJackSnack said:

Since no one has posted a recent tier list, and I'm slow at work I thought I would take the liberty of upsetting some people. This tier list is based on the best variation used for each character depending on the matchup.



*No particular order in each tier*



S: Sonya, Takeda, Sektor, Sub Zero, Shinnok, Mileena


A+: Jason, Kitana, Ermac, Quan Chi, Smoke, Kano


A: Cassie, Predator, Reptile, Goro, Liu Kang, Cyber Sub


B+: Kenshi, Jacqui, Bo'Rai Cho, ?Johnny Cage?, Alien, Tanya, Tremor, ?Leatherface?, Kung Lao


B: Kotal Kahn, Scorpion, Raiden, Erron Black


C: Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr, D'Vorah


D: Cyrax, Jax




I admit I am not a guru so there will be obvious things people are gonna want changed, please comment and explain somewhat so I can update this as it's out.

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Scorpion is definitely higher than B, he is easily A if not A+ in the right hands. Ninjutsu footsies are stronger than before and there is less fear of launching armor which is a buff to his overall game plan. Also the run mechanic changes favor Ninjutsu as well because if you clip someone running in with b2 or f2 now they can't break. He lost his armor breaking Oki for the most part because wake-up armor has 2 hits now but very few launch now so basically IMO the system changes and nerfs to his worst matchup opponents still overall buffs him. Hellfires run cancels took a hit but so did everyone else's and overall the variation still does hella damage into mixups and punishes like a beast. Also he has one of the best AA normals leading into full combo/pressure in standing 3. He is A tier if not A+ IMO.

Baconlord said:

but shouldn't we be using the highest level play to judge a tier list?

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Wait a few more majors before making a call on Sub-Zero. SonicFox is SonicFox; you can expect him to still body people with EB (even with the nerfs)
I just don't think basing Sub-Zero off one major is fair. How long has Sub-Zero been rated at least in the A or A+ Tier range, I think he's still in that area. I just need to see the true Sub-Zero (Tom Brady) play a major before I change my opinion.

xKhaoTik said:

So does mileena. What exactly did she lose?

Still gains meter the same way. Still zones the same way. Still counter zones the same way. Damage is only 2% less. Piercing ender is still gdlk on hit.

Yea b1 became a high but it's faster and it's still an advancing normal that's safe and hard to whiff punish. Very good footsie tool. Couple that in with her newly buffed f2 and she's still good upclose. Her having to spend a bar to launch is fine. It still has armor and it's still an OH, meaning her mixup game is still there, just slightly less threatening. It's not like the armor is useless either since she goes full screen on hit, resetting the neutral and going right back to zoning and building meter.


So again, what did she lose? I'm not saying she's top 2 like before but she's still top 10 imo, probably still top 5

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newly buffed f2? huh?

• Mileena - combo damage scaling adjustments and increases
• Mileena - Away+FP now hits high and starts up in 10 frames (down from 15)
• Mileena - Flip n' Roll no longer recovers in time to juggle the opponent
• Mileena - Flip n' Roll can now be enhanced to roll backwards allowing for a juggle
• Mileena (Piercing) - Away+FP now hits high and starts up in 10 frames (down from 11)
• Mileena (Ethereal) -
• Mileena (Ravenous) -

i think your mistaken man, heard people saying in chat of live stream it looked like f2 is faster but it always been 15 frames

D7X said:

Here's my list. No particular order!

S: Ermac, Predator, Kitana, Sub Zero, Jason.

A+: Mileena, Goro, Shinnok, Jacqui, Kenshi, Alien.

A: Reptile (Could be A+), Sonya, Quan Chi, Triborg, Tremor (Could be A+), Takeda, Kano, Liu Kang, Raiden (Could be A+), Ferra/Torr, Cassie, Scorpion.

B+: Tanya, Bo Rai Cho (Could be A), Leatherface, Johnny, Kotal, Erron Black, D'Vorah

B: Kung Jin, Jax.

Lemme know if i missed any and i want some feedback!!!
@PND_Ketchup @PND_Mustard @A F0xy Grampa @STB Shujinkydink @Big D @others

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You forgot Lao

D7X said:

Here's my list. No particular order!

S: Ermac, Predator, Kitana, Sub Zero, Jason.

A+: Mileena, Goro, Shinnok, Jacqui, Kenshi, Alien.

A: Reptile (Could be A+), Sonya, Quan Chi, Triborg, Tremor (Could be A+), Takeda, Kano, Liu Kang, Raiden (Could be A+), Ferra/Torr, Cassie, Scorpion.

B+: Tanya, Bo Rai Cho (Could be A), Leatherface, Johnny, Kotal, Erron Black, D'Vorah

B: Kung Jin, Jax.

Lemme know if i missed any and i want some feedback!!!
@PND_Ketchup @PND_Mustard @A F0xy Grampa @STB Shujinkydink @Big D @others

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Also Johnny at B tier????? You're sleeping hard fam lol

Scorpion is definitely more than B tier. if anything he is A tier bottom line. CSZ is definitely not A tier while Tremor should be a bit higher

I'll also chime in and second the notion that Bo is possibly A+, but at the very least, a solid A.

Mobility buffs are phenomenal, armored launchers gone so there's less reward in blowing up his gaps unless you're willing to spend 2 bars which you will most likely regret should he push you into the corner.

The DB1 buffs are great too. He's far from impervious to zoning, which is good, a character needs weaknesses, but they definitely helped in certain MUs.

And I need not to write a fluff piece on his corner game. The amount of dirt this character has is absolutely ludicrous.

topper2ath said:

I should also specify that yes, Heavy Weapons is definitely buns now.

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This is only true if you used LAW cancel into string~EX OHDP rather than LAW cancel into 3B2.

When your main goes from potential top 10 to D tier. RIP Jax.

S: Sonya, Takeda, Ermac, Sub Zero, Kitana, Mileena


A+: Jason, Shinnok, Sektor, Quan Chi, Smoke, Kano, Predator


A: Cassie, Tremor, Goro, Liu Kang, Cyber Sub, Johnny Cage, Alien, Kung Lao


B: Kenshi, Jacqui, Bo'Rai Cho, Tanya, Reptile, Leatherface, Kotal Khan, Scorpion, Raiden, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr, D'Vorah


Z: Cyrax, Jax

ragnar0kz28 said:

S: Sonya, Takeda, Ermac, Sub Zero, Kitana, Mileena


A+: Jason, Shinnok, Sektor, Quan Chi, Smoke, Kano, Predator


A: Cassie, Tremor, Goro, Liu Kang, Cyber Sub, Johnny Cage, Alien, Kung Lao


B: Kenshi, Jacqui, Bo'Rai Cho, Tanya, Reptile, Leatherface, Kotal Khan, Scorpion, Raiden, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Ferra/Torr, D'Vorah


Z: Cyrax, Jax

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Lol at another person who thinks scorpion is not A tier

STRYKIE said:

This is only true if you used LAW cancel into string~EX OHDP rather than LAW cancel into 3B2.

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Good point. Maybe I shouldn't speak on that since I was trash using him anyway so my opinion really doesn't apply.

Matix218 said:

Lol at another person who thinks scorpion is not A tier

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We might soon become the new Cage Community

topper2ath said:

Good point. Maybe I shouldn't speak on that since I was trash using him anyway so my opinion really doesn't apply.

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say the system changes have left HW worse off overall, but the meterless conversionability/safety still makes it a very important variation for Jax.

So we just gonna act like Reptile isn't top 8?

Derptile said:

So we just gonna act like Reptile isn't top 8?

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Shhhh. Let the good times roll fam.

is Kung Jin really that bad now?

Gunshow's Commando vs Dab's Wrestler
I haven't played MKXL since patch cause my PS4 is at my brother's place so I semi believe the anti hype about Jax from this rapidly more and more delusional forum regulars..You are so wrong (I was too) ,Jax is not that bad at all,you just need to play him smarter and to hit confirm his shit.He is still solid as fuck,get him outta that C or D or whatever tier bruh

TheGangstaFace said:

Also Johnny at B tier????? You're sleeping hard fam lol

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ill add lao. I forgot to add possible A Tier on johnny too I wouldnt put him any higher tho

Derptile said:

So we just gonna act like Reptile isn't top 8?

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its possible. But 9-12 is where i would put him