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Discussion The Nerfed to "Sh*t" & "Now Useless" Stigma

MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
CrazyFingers said:
Dude, calm down, we haven't scratched the surface of this patch and you're already saying a character got shafted? Stop.
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whats going on, did info release on Ancestrial? lol i seen the Mileenas Freak out last night. and soem others thinking she got buffed. its TYM at its finest, really its MK community. thats what all of them do, they Over react to Patches.

but whats the new adjustments leaked.

i know of the Cryomancer tick throw, the GM freezes Alien Tail. Fisty cuffs Meter on Fisty bump, Reptile losing Armor on 2 of his many launchers and gaining Spit stop run. Mileena Has to meter burn Ball Roll to combo. and Cyber Sub Zero gets back F13 xx BF1.

what else is there?
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
MadeOfMetal said:
whats going on, did info release on Ancestrial? lol i seen the Mileenas Freak out last night. and soem others thinking she got buffed. its TYM at its finest, really its MK community. thats what all of them do, they Over react to Patches.

but whats the new adjustments leaked.

i know of the Cryomancer tick throw, the GM freezes Alien Tail. Fisty cuffs Meter on Fisty bump, Reptile losing Armor on 2 of his many launchers and gaining Spit stop run. Mileena Has to meter burn Ball Roll to combo. and Cyber Sub Zero gets back F13 xx BF1.

what else is there?
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Kenshi buff. EX Overhead sword launchers and can combo with teleflurry full screen. Dualist can detonate his dark orbs with light orbs. Goro can EX his EX punchwalk on block. Quan's overhead IS A MID. Bartitsu staff spin absorbs projectiles. Armored bug blast in venomous. Sonya's overhead seems a LOT slower. Double armor on EX Superman. Am I missing anything?
 
Numbskull727

Numbskull727

happiness is a warm gun
Won't Reptile still be able to ex invisibility and f412 some jump ins? ex spit compliments force balls very nicely. The ex claw swipe armor and launch on ex pounce will be missed but it's not the end of Zaterra.
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Tweedy said:
What top players make those threads, though?

It's mostly just TYM people who maybe don't even play the game lol.
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You must be new here! Welcome! Perhaps "former top players" would have been more accurate but the thread title I mentioned in quotations was a deliberate reference to perhaps the most notorious of one such overreaction/tantrum thread from the last NRS game.

A lot of the passing of the old guard has not been gracious and certain previous top 8 NRS entrants are now doing little more than declaring their characters dead or deader still with every new balance change. Just because they're no longer the current top players doesn't mean they should have a free pass to be a cancer to the community though; some of them could learn a lot from the attitude displayed by @YOMI REO here.
 
ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Noob
MadeOfMetal said:
i think you don't know what all happened to Cyrax do you? yes the Reset was just and fair, but the rest was over the top and unneeded.

They castrated his Neutral, his B1/B3/1/11/F13/F21 all of those got rediction on Hit advantage which was dumb, the one that needed it was in CSZ and Smoke variation standing 3 that caused Vortex and HTB unblockables in CSZ. but they took from Cyrax which did not do that shit.

then his Normal Combos got effected by how many bombs came out, 4 high 4 low. thats it now. and that ruines alot, on top of getting a wopping 25% reduction on meterless combo. name a character that got that much of a damge nerf in MKXL, no one but cyrax.

then he has Wiffing issues caused by last patch, as well as Mutiple NEt glitches, Teleport glitch and Recovery glicthes from F4/Shrapnel Port/Teleport/Net. and then Net has issue on last half now. the opponent can walk out of Net on last half, even move and perform Normals and block while still in it. its messes up half his Combos and Setups.

this isn't even close to how many problems the patch created. when you take away Mids, Close up, Neutral and Zoning from a character how is that fair and just. i know he is good. in the right hands, but is is lacking very much in almost every front, the one exception is he has great mixups.


Its understandable you did not know because you do not use Cyrax. but this is a common problem on TYM, people get salty towords a character and never used them and want them nerfed. like some top players i seen there videos and nothing against them, but they are talking on video about what needs to be nerfed on them, but don't even know how to do a simple combo or what any of there inputs are. that just Reaks of Misdirection and Poor Management. noone should be telling a Main that there character needs nerfed if the person telling can't use the character themself. that tells me they dont know the Struggles of character, Weaknesses, Strengths or Escapes from setups of the character.

Smoke and Sektor are still very very good. Cyrax is an incomplete character and CSZ even though he is good and Viable just like Cyrax, can not hold up against even A+ tier characters.
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removing the throw reset WAS NEEDED, removing the pseudo unblockable in cyrax and cyber sub WAS NEEDED, maybe they over did it in the damage department but those broke stuff that got removed should never come back.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
ragnar0kz28 said:
removing the throw reset WAS NEEDED, removing the pseudo unblockable in cyrax and cyber sub WAS NEEDED, maybe they over did it in the damage department but those broke stuff that got removed should never come back.
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i never said his broke shit should stay, there was only one broke thing, the rest was not and it was like 20+ more nerfs than needed.
 
RevetLeafing

RevetLeafing

Tanya, Tanqui, and Kaprisun Specialist
ZeroEffect said:
Gotta disagree with you on Ethereal and meter. Ethereal was already Meter reliant as is. The point I believe Skedar was making, was that if you Revesal EX Fade to escape pressure/bait whiffs/etc, you will now be spending another for MB Roll as a punish. 2 bars for one defensive decision. (Granted it may JUST be Anti-Air Rolls that require the MB, but for now this is what we were given.) Yes EX Fade is amazing, but unless you're strictly talking about hitconfirms, using it as a counter tool will cost a ton.

The issue is, Piercing is the variation everyone wants nerfed. So to them, Ethereal is expendable. You can't play Ethereal effectively without bar since her whole variation is one move. Piercing, however, will probably not notice much difference in playstyle except for not having breaker so often.
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Kobu has to do this now, you'll be fine
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Darth-Nero said:
We don't know that yet, it's just a speculation. The command grab is most likely the grab in his f421+3 string, If it kept it's properties then he can launch off of it.



Cryo have similar arsenal of his own, His f4 is advancing mid where he will probably be able to tech grab from. His ex burst is more consistent AA launcher than Kotals Air grab. His overhead hammer is also plus on block with push back. Ex ice ball absorbs projectiles. Slide to for mobility and getting in and out. overhead and low starters. safe mixups into high damaging midscreen combos.

I think he was meant to be a high damaging mixup variation so plus frames/pressure is not something that he should get. But i'd take that now any day instead of him getting that command grab, am telling you if it launches and he can tech it from some of his strings then sungod wont even compete.
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His OH Hammer is not plus on block, it has pushback but it's very negative and punishable by anyone with a fast advancing move. It can also be jumped over on string block from almost any string except F4.

His F4 move is the only move he has that jails into everything (hammer and iceball included) so if tick throws whiff on block jail he won't be able to tick from it (maybe from F42 but looking at frame data I'm not sure that would work either unless the command grab is reaaaaally slow).

He shouldn't get pressure though so I agree with that, what he really needed is his neutral game to be addressed because core Sub-Zero is designed with GMs klone in mind (most of his strings start with a close punch, then the following hit advances). It makes no sense for his sword strings to require you to be face to face (using a raw hammer is a faster neutral tool than whiffing F1 to play footsies with F12) and I really hope this is addressed and F122 gets the first hit removed, this is a huge problem with or without a command grab (Wrestler Jax, Brawler Cassie or Sun God Kotal Kahn have really good tools in that department for example). Sometimes I think Sub-Zero was designed before the variations system was an idea and later they split his moves but the chore character was intended to have the klone to protect him.

I think his damage will go down with the update, specially his meterless damage, which I'm totally fine with if they fix the stuff that really hurts him. Wouldn't care about a dramatic drop on the damage I get from my opportunities if at least I have a decent rate of opportunities.

About the command grab being followed by a launcher, looking at the later series of buffs I think you will need to meter burn for a continuation, I think that it's possible that said meterburn could be a freeze (like with Cyber Sub-Zero) so you don't get to string into iceball into string into grab into meterburn because you only get 1 freeze per combo (except if it's the X-Ray Parry), which would leave EX Hammer (so 2 bars) as the only option for 2 combo extensions if you want high damage off it. Just theorycrafting here (I also think EX Hammer will lose its armor, which is fine as the move was really easy to armor break without even trying anyway, and I think EX Burst won't launch anymore, just armor, which would make it not as good as an anti air but at least there is standing 1).

As long as he gets a sword string and maybe an Air Hammer buff (changing it from armor breaking into a ground pound or whatever, it has no use on its current state) I don't care if Cryo's combo damage drops drastically.
 
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ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Noob
MadeOfMetal said:
i never said his broke shit should stay, there was only one broke thing, the rest was not and it was like 20+ more nerfs than needed.
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I agree he got over normalized, but the 2 things I addressed that they removed (throw reset, and pseudo unblockables after knockdown) where right decisions.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
ragnar0kz28 said:
I agree he got over normalized, but the 2 things I addressed that they removed (throw reset, and pseudo unblockables after knockdown) where right decisions.
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whait what Pseudo unblockables, are you talking about Net setups, that was the reset. and he was able to make it OH-LOW/LOW-OH then because he could do B2 into Low bomb. now they have buffer frames on that move. most Cyrax's do B1 over a low bomb to make a quick OH to Low. but yeah those are gone. and i am almost 100% positive it was 1 combo that could be done 3 different ways.

but yueah CSZ had the Pseudo Unblockables Midscreen. because his Ice Balls freeze and Explode in a bigger radious, the Bombs Cyrax has have a much smaller up wards hitbox when exploding. so it didnt work as well, they could always techroll and backdash.

but Agreed.

@ragnar0kz28 ok now some are saying in Sonya thread that she got B1 nerfed, but i do not see the Link? do you know if they released one, or are they talking about the D'Vorah gets Armor One
where Sonya does a B1 in response. cuiz that is the video being slowed from 60FPS to 30FPS which would double the visual Frames. example, 1 frame in 60FPS is 16.67ms and 1 Frame in 30FPS is 33.34ms
 
ragnar0kz28

ragnar0kz28

Noob
MadeOfMetal said:
whait what Pseudo unblockables, are you talking about Net setups, that was the reset. and he was able to make it OH-LOW/LOW-OH then because he could do B2 into Low bomb. now they have buffer frames on that move. most Cyrax's do B1 over a low bomb to make a quick OH to Low. but yeah those are gone. and i am almost 100% positive it was 1 combo that could be done 3 different ways.

but yueah CSZ had the Pseudo Unblockables Midscreen. because his Ice Balls freeze and Explode in a bigger radious, the Bombs Cyrax has have a much smaller up wards hitbox when exploding. so it didnt work as well, they could always techroll and backdash.

but Agreed.

@ragnar0kz28 ok now some are saying in Sonya thread that she got B1 nerfed, but i do not see the Link? do you know if they released one, or are they talking about the D'Vorah gets Armor One
where Sonya does a B1 in response. cuiz that is the video being slowed from 60FPS to 30FPS which would double the visual Frames. example, 1 frame in 60FPS is 16.67ms and 1 Frame in 30FPS is 33.34ms
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sooo many speculations, I would wait till monday to read all about the balance patch
 
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