General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

Jeffrey Wolf said:

When I said poke, I meant attack on reaction to incoming Sub. For example, when Sub is coming in to B33 or Throw. Alien's D1 should work for that.

Seriously though, if Konjurer's OH call or egg was faster, couldn't you imagine using that as an answer? Not saying it's as good as the tail, obviously, but it would be better than with Tarkatan.

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It doesn't. His D1 gets frozen.

@Lokheit, those are some very interesting predictions, but I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Because Mileena's roll was nerfed? I think that's more about her being a top tier/having arguably the best AA in the game, than a universal change to launching moves. Don't get me wrong, I think Unbreakable and Cryo are definitely getting some new things (command grab? wtf?), but I'm not seeing what you're basing your guesses on. I'd love to hear why you think that.

@Tweedy, I wonder why that is. Because his D1 moves his whole body forward perhaps? I see what you mean then, universal Alien should be able to throw something out against incoming Sub. I suppose your best option as is in Tarkatan then, excuding armor, would be to NJP.

Alien should have no options against subzero

youthinkyoubadyouaintbad said:

Alien should have no options against subzero

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This is what i'm trying to hear.

Just flat out say it. All of this beating around the bush is annoying. I'm not making up that Alien, with that change, would have 0 options against close klone. People can test it themselves.

Okay...again though, you still have armor, NJ, and better options with other variations, just like many characters in the cast. Acting otherwise makes you sound just as bad as the idiots saying "Alien should have no options." Plus, if Alien really doesn't have options, with any variation, which I doubt, then that's why, as in most fighting games, you have a pocket character. I'm looking at you Chun vs Zangief MU in SF4.

Jeffrey Wolf said:

Okay...again though, you still have armor, NJ, and better options with other variations, just like many characters in the cast. Acting otherwise makes you sound just as bad as the idiots saying "Alien should have no options." Plus, if Alien really doesn't have options, with any variation, which I doubt, then that's why, as in most fighting games, you have a pocket character. I'm looking at you Chun vs Zangief MU in SF4.

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If I duck a throw, block a F33, block whatever, I should be able to at least poke, like a lot of characters can.

NJP is a horrible option because Alien gets frozen on the way down. If Sub Zero is crouching, not in range or blocking i'll die.

Like I said i'll play a different character. I just don't understand why people want the game to be unbalanced?

I think if Cryomancer's command grab is good then it is going to be helpful because he can be offensive without sending Grandmaster through the sky.

Jeffrey Wolf said:

@Lokheit, those are some very interesting predictions, but I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Because Mileena's roll was nerfed? I think that's more about her being a top tier/having arguably the best AA in the game, than a universal change to launching moves. Don't get me wrong, I think Unbreakable and Cryo are definitely getting some new things (command grab? wtf?), but I'm not seeing what you're basing your guesses on. I'd love to hear why you think that.

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Reptile got the armor removed from one of his launchers and the other one doesn't launch anymore. Plus the Mileena change. I think it's going to be universal. The rumored/speculated "kounter" thing could be a mechanic to only have armor on wakeups and reversals for certain moves (or something completly different), we don't know se we will see during the stream

Whatever. I only care that they fix Ice Klone's hurtboxes, so that it will stop its whiffs and freeze anybody spot on.

I'm not completely sure that D3 won't be an option. Looking at the gif, I can't really tell where exactly the hurt-box on Alien's tail extends to. Could be to the tip, could be halfway down the tail. We also don't know what kind of adjustments they've possibly made as far as quirky collision boxes, which Alien has, so that could affect options in the corner.

I tend to lean toward thinking it won't be the entire tail and she can still D3 up close or do other moves at particular range (say, Sub's back against the wall). Same with D'Vorah, if this affects her as well. Like she can D4 closer to the Clone, but maybe not D3 at the same range.

Obviously speculation.

ChaosTheory said:

I'm not completely sure that D3 won't be an option. Looking at the gif, I can't really tell where exactly the hurt-box on Alien's tail extends to. Could be to the tip, could be halfway down the tail. We also don't know what kind of adjustments they've possibly made as far as quirky collision boxes, which Alien has, so that could affect options in the corner.

I tend to lean toward thinking it won't be the entire tail and she can still D3 up close or do other moves at particular range (say, Sub's back against the wall). Same with D'Vorah, if this affects her as well. Like she can D4 closer to the Clone, but maybe not D3 at the same range.

Obviously speculation.

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We'll test all the low attacks against IK to see if IK works against all of them.

#inb4everyonestartsusingSub

Ah, I hadn't seen that about Reptile yet. Gtk. It would be fascinating if armor only worked during a reversal window...it would be a whole different game in some ways...

Only fools want imbalance.

All of these discussions are super helpful and awesome u guys. My only question I have for nrs is where is my unbreakable changes? :'/ if they are planning to remove launchers armor and took the ex slide armor away.....idk.....

Tender said:

All of these discussions are super helpful and awesome u guys. My only question I have for nrs is where is my unbreakable changes? :'/ if they are planning to remove launchers armor and took the ex slide armor away.....idk.....

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I have the same thoughts. Where are they?

I am actually freaking out a lil inside right now. Last time they give everyone 6 f d1 indirectly nerf unbreakable. Finger cross nothing like this happens again

It looks the same to me too

STB Sgt Reed said:

Beef -MFing- Supreme!!!! <3

Explain your swords comment. lol

Also, I only ask because I would be beyond hype if this was a clone buff and I'd be playing the game a lot more than I do now if true. lol

Why would they only make that change to one character tho? Surely it's either a buff to clone or a nerf to characters with moves like alien's tail thing.

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LoL what i mean is, I dont play the mirror.

Hell I play more minjutsu nowadays in the current meta of the game. As such, the disjointed hitboxes of f2 and b2 have served me well in the GM MU.

So, if the change is eluding ALL disjointed hitboxes being subject to being frozen, I just wont play Ninjutsu in this MU. But if the game is going where my gut is telling me it's going, I will be coming back to lord Liang full time

Zerodegreez said:

Cheers, yeah it's really hard to tell.

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It's so hard to tell from these GIFs man lol.

We dont know if they're making them slower for demonstration or what. We will just have to wait. I mean, in the DVorah highlight, sonya's jump was hella floaty and b1 was mad slow to the eye. And even DVorah looked slightly in slo-mo when I watched it. So speed is really tough to judge.

Although, I wouldn't hold out hope that our 'not nearly the most broke overhead in the game' gets tickled a bit by the devs too given where things seem to be headed.

Zerodegreez said:

There seems to be some talk that Sub's B2 has been Nerfed, it seems the same to me, am I missing something?

https://twitter.com/NRS_NNicastro/status/781939653326823424

Edit - Looking closely the B2 does 'seem' to be slower but maybe I'm just seeing things, anyone else want to compare?

I've got my BnB Video to use as it is basically just B2s.

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Lord Beef said:

It's so hard to tell from these GIFs man lol.

We dont know if they're making them slower for demonstration or what. We will just have to wait. I mean, in the DVorah highlight, sonya's jump was hella floaty and b1 was mad slow to the eye. And even DVorah looked slightly in slo-mo when I watched it. So speed is really tough to judge.

Although, I wouldn't hold out hope that our 'not nearly the most broke overhead in the game' gets tickled a bit by the devs too given where things seem to be headed.

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i think the Twitter video is slowed down to show the moves, its something I'm noticing A lot. a lot of videos people are claiming the moves are slower like Sonya B1 and now this, but i think, they are intentionally slowing down the video just by a little to show us the moves better if you look back, they have always slowed the video down a bit on even the earliest Kombat Kasts.

like you said we will know when it come out. but im almost 100% positive, they are not nerfing Mixup's across the board. just the Top tiers. that would be basically unding everything they work towards for more than a year. and all of a sudden just change it all because a few hate Mix-ups on a website.

Its possible, but like ive said i really do believe its been slowed doen. i noticed on anothe rvideo that was sonyas, that it was 30FPS diring the clip on her B1, and that would double the amount of time. meaning a normal frame in 60FPS is 16.67 milliseconds and if it was slowed to 30FPS which it was on that video i inspected, it changed to 33.34 Milliseconds for 1 Frame.

Get what im saying. if it changes from 60-30FPS then the move will almost look twice as slow. they could be using sony vegas slow tool and be at 45FPS who knows instead of 60 then it would just look slightly slower.

i stand behind my theory i do not think the B1 onSonya or the B2 on Sub Zero is Nerfed. after inspecting a couple videos Frame Rate and Timing between Sections.

@hkriderz

• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Towards+BK,BP,FP+FK now does the same animation and damage as the other variations
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - added new special move Polar Puncture & Arctic Assault which functions as a command grab which can be special cancelled out of on hit
  

WTF ABOUT THE IK ARMOR???? How are we supposed to protect ourselves from incoming attacks, if we can't freeze them spot on?

@Jeffrey Wolf

Your request is done. Here you go.

Subzero - Down+FP now has 7 startup frames (down from 9)

This poke is faster. Therefore I might add 4-5 D1s before B12xxIK.

Subzero - fixed a bug where an opponent would drop out of a frozen reaction if Subzero blocked an attack on the same frame

They seem to have fixed the IK whiffs.

Tanno said:

@hkriderz

• Subzero (Cryomancer) - Towards+BK,BP,FP+FK now does the same animation and damage as the other variations
• Subzero (Cryomancer) - added new special move Polar Puncture & Arctic Assault which functions as a command grab which can be special cancelled out of on hit

WTF ABOUT THE IK ARMOR???? How are we supposed to protect ourselves from incoming attacks, if we can't freeze them spot on?

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Yeah no more Ice clone reversals. Its still fast though, so it'll be useful.

The cryo thing is exactly like i said. f42 is still special cancelable so cancel it into the polar puncture.