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Discussion The Nerfed to "Sh*t" & "Now Useless" Stigma

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
In what world is Raiden not a popular character? He's right behind the ninjas as one of the most recognizable faces of the franchise.
I meant popular as in having too many players/fans. You can't compare the size of Raiden's community to that of Subzero's,Kitana's or even Scorpion's.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
I meant popular as in having too many players/fans. You can't compare the size of Raiden's community to that of Subzero's,Kitana's or even Scorpion's.
You can though. Scorpion and Sub Zero are obviously in a league of their own as the faces of this franchise but Raiden's popularity is not that far behind. I don't know what makes you think he's Stryker tier in popularity compared to Kitana but he's not.
 

Skedar70

Noob
I just tested and can confirm Ethereal can use NJP or B+3,4~Sai launcher string after some EX fade strings on hit to do combos.

If you don't have meter, I suppose you can do any string cancelled into tele kick and then air sai to get some guaranteed pressure, throw attempts, or staggers afterwards.

F+1,2,B+4~Tele Kick~Air Sai as an example for a very basic combo does 22% damage and leaves you plus afterwards which isn't too bad, IMO.
Yeah but you are talking about canceling a string hit into ex fade. Like for example 21 ex fade like to punish something and continue the combo. With the new changes If you land the hit its better to just go for the roll and spend the meter on that since you get more damage you will probably get around 28%.

I'm talking about when on knockdown or when you are pressured and you use ex fade to fade back and make your opponent whiff. In the current build you could roll or do f23 into roll to punish the whiff and get a good combo in the corner you could even do f3 and get a huge combo. With the new change this will require basically 2 bars of meter. One for the whiff and one for the punish or you will end up getting like 15% maybe if you only use one bar.

In ethereal Mileena only has fade and ex fade they are no additional tools so whiff punishing is huge in ethereal and with the new changes this will require like 2 bars for 28 or 30% damage.This variation will not be worth it if this is the case.
 
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THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I'm convinced that's the route they're taking. Reptile is an insanely odd character to show off removal of armor, because he currently really needs it. I suspect a lot more is changing than we can even begin to expect.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
What if the entire goal is to make Reptile more of a zoner? Random thought, but faster acid spit and ground spit would work very well with his forceballs.

Making overhead flip not combo means he couldn't easily counterzone for full combo, removing armour from claw swipe would make finally closing space against him more rewarding.

Just a potential idea out there I guess?
I would love that but there is literally no evidence to suggest his spit is faster. To me is seems exactly the same
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
I'm convinced that's the route they're taking. Reptile is an insanely odd character to show off removal of armor, because he currently really needs it. I suspect a lot more is changing than we can even begin to expect.
May God hear you
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
Lol stfu.
all you do is downplay this character man. As it looks right now, every character lost its Armored launcher, so RIP Goro.

But Reptile is still a very good character, this means characters can no longer just armor out of F41 pressure anymore.

Being able to MB spit on hit to throw out a puddle is super nice.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
all you do is downplay this character man. As it looks right now, every character lost its Armored launcher, so RIP Goro.

But Reptile is still a very good character, this means characters can no longer just armor out of F41 pressure anymore.

Being able to MB spit on hit to throw out a puddle is super nice.
Wait what about mb spit??
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
all you do is downplay this character man. As it looks right now, every character lost its Armored launcher, so RIP Goro.

But Reptile is still a very good character, this means characters can no longer just armor out of F41 pressure anymore.

Being able to MB spit on hit to throw out a puddle is super nice.
I'm really interested to see how this game plays out without people mindlessly mashing armor if this kind of change is how it looks
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
You can though. Scorpion and Sub Zero are obviously in a league of their own as the faces of this franchise but Raiden's popularity is not that far behind. I don't know what makes you think he's Stryker tier in popularity compared to Kitana but he's not.
Raiden to me is the spirit of Mortal Kombat, He has been there since the whole thing began and his role in it is a major one. He should be as popular as Scorp and Sub but he is not, not even close mate. I can count to you all the Raiden players here on my fingers, Just take a look at the waste land that is Raiden's forum here.

I know we are not the entire base of Raiden's players but online also speaks for itself, How often do you come across a Raiden player compared to all the Subs, Kitanas, Mileenas and Scorpions?
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I meant popular as in having too many players/fans. You can't compare the size of Raiden's community to that of Subzero's,Kitana's or even Scorpion's.
If Raiden was top tier he would instantly have many players. You're reading way too much into this; D'vorah, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Mileena, Takeda, Cassie, Kung Jin, Shinnok, Kano, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Ermac, Quan Chi and Raiden have all been very good at some point in this game's life cycle. You can't say that all of those characters fall into this category of 'characters that NRS buffs because they're popular'. Let's not forget how mad good Raiden was at launch, which technically puts him into that category.

Also remember that it's often times the opposite of what you said: Characters aren't always good because they're popular, much more often they're popular because they're good.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
What if the entire goal is to make Reptile more of a zoner? Random thought, but faster acid spit and ground spit would work very well with his forceballs.

Making overhead flip not combo means he couldn't easily counterzone for full combo, removing armour from claw swipe would make finally closing space against him more rewarding.

Just a potential idea out there I guess?
What if the kounter system works like this. As seen in the video with reptile if you counter hit someone there armor won't happen thus ending mashed armor moves?
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Thats what i think. but it completely flips what I think reptile is supposed to be. I describe him as the doomsday of MKX, fast rushdown and hard to get out of your face.
Its an interesting decision to change him into a zoner/space control character. Maybe hes an example of a more zoning focused meta for MKX?
Safe to say b2 will be neg.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
If Raiden was top tier he would instantly have many players. You're reading way too much into this; D'vorah, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Mileena, Takeda, Cassie, Kung Jin, Shinnok, Kano, Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Ermac, Quan Chi and Raiden have all been very good at some point in this game's life cycle. You can't say that all of those characters fall into this category of 'characters that NRS buffs because they're popular'. Let's not forget how mad good Raiden was at launch, which technically puts him into that category.

Also remember that it's often times the opposite of what you said: Characters aren't always good because they're popular, much more often they're popular because they're good.
I slightly agree with you. But it's not about the tier placement that determines popularity, aside from attractive character design, it's actually about how easy can the average joe pick up said character and play. Subzero, Scorpion and Kitana are all simple to use; easy to pickup characters, They have the widest popularity despite being solid mid tier.

Raiden could've been just as popular if he was relatively easy to use, but his simplest variation (ThunderGod) requires above average executions because of run cancels and his best variation (Displacer) that is arguably A+ with no known losing matchups have the hardest executions in the game.

Also yes, Raiden was top tier at lunch but that doesn't put him in the same category as characters that NRS buffs cuz they're popular, because starting from the 1st patch he kept falling into nerfing abyss and there was nothing we could've done to stop that because we had no voice, and still don't.

Bottom line, Communities that cry louder keeps getting prioritized by NRS. Mileena community are a good example. A good character that got over buffed for no reason, Now she have 6f d1 that players barely uses because of how many bullshit tools she got going on for her already. Meanwhile, Kenshi still struggles to play the game.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Raiden could've been just as popular if he was relatively easy to use, but his simplest variation (ThunderGod) requires above average executions because of run cancels and his best variation (Displacer) that is arguably A+ with no known losing matchups have the hardest executions in the game.
displacer has the hardest execution in the game? how?
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Bottom line, Communities that cry louder keeps getting prioritized by NRS. Mileena community are a good example. A good character that got over buffed for no reason, Now she have 6f d1 that players barely uses because of how many bullshit tools she got going on for her already. Meanwhile, Kenshi still struggles to play the game.

im pretty sure kenshi players actually cried a lot louder than mileena players did lol. I do think the crying on here influences it tho