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Discussion The Nerfed to "Sh*t" & "Now Useless" Stigma

Belial

Noob
It's because somehow people perceive triborg differently from other characters. They see triborg as 4 different characters, just as they should with everyone else, but they don't. That very same people never mind cryomancer and unbreakable as long as grandmaster is fine "hey its subzero anyway".

Getting over that scrub mentality is the first step if we want to have a serious discussion.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
I feel like this thread needs to be made because way often than not, we have players or individuals claim a character has been nerfed to "useless", "shit", "completely unviable", and much more being prematurely thrown around each update. It's to the point where it's starting to become a trend with each patch.

We've seen it happen with Raiden, Erron Black, Sub-Zero, Quan Chi, Shinnok, Tanya, Cassie Cage, Triborg, Scorpion, Predator, Tremor, etc. etc. where almost all of these characters at one point were called "dead" and claimed to have no use in the game after their "butchering".

Sure some varations of these characters may have been over normalized by a bit, but it's never been the case in MKX where a character from the roster has all of a sudden become a training dummy and has no place in the game.

Many of the Mileena and Alien players panicking on social media claiming that their character may now be "ruined" need to take a moment and realize that... It's never really happened before, and there's about a 1% chance it happens in the next big update hitting. Especially with a patch that has had seven months in the works.


TL;DR - Less claims and outrage of characters now being "shit" because of nerfs. The character that you think may become nerfed to "shit" in the upcoming patch will most likely still be good and have their uses.
They are scared that the game wouldn't see another update because of the tendency of NRS to turn high potential games into abandonware in sight of the next title.
We can only hope they won't do the same with MKX and instead they'd adopt a 21st century game development strategy where they revisit the game every three to six months at the very least.
 
Ethereal being meter hungry is fine. Some characters are balanced by being very meter reliant. If Ethereal could build meter super easy and always have access to a bar, then she would be insane because of how ridiculous and potent EX Fade is as a move. She does a decent job building meter against some characters with the use of her zoning, fade keep away, and strings. EX Fade is such a strong move and shuts down some characters extremely well. It's also one of the best wake-ups in the game. Watch Saltface use her to get an idea, Ethereal is really good.

Characters should feel like they're missing something in an area or have a weakness. They're usually a fairly balanced character in most cases. (depending on the game's meta) Characters that don't feel like they're missing anything big and have every tool you could want are usually the messy top tier characters that are sometimes a mistake.
Gotta disagree with you on Ethereal and meter. Ethereal was already Meter reliant as is. The point I believe Skedar was making, was that if you Revesal EX Fade to escape pressure/bait whiffs/etc, you will now be spending another for MB Roll as a punish. 2 bars for one defensive decision. (Granted it may JUST be Anti-Air Rolls that require the MB, but for now this is what we were given.) Yes EX Fade is amazing, but unless you're strictly talking about hitconfirms, using it as a counter tool will cost a ton.

The issue is, Piercing is the variation everyone wants nerfed. So to them, Ethereal is expendable. You can't play Ethereal effectively without bar since her whole variation is one move. Piercing, however, will probably not notice much difference in playstyle except for not having breaker so often.
 
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STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Anyway, why are people saying Cryomancer invalidates Sun God? (apart from Braindead who's comment was obviously in jest)

From what I could see the command grab looked pretty fast, and fast command grabs usually result in fuck all legit tick throws off normals. The fact that Tyler had to show a clip of him tick throwing from D4 (a freaking poke) doesn't bode well for it's potential.

Besides, Sub-Zero's base toolset doesn't even nearly have a button as commanding as Kotal's B1, never mind also being able to tick from it.
 

REO

Undead
Gotta disagree with you on Ethereal and meter. Ethereal was already Meter reliant as is. The point I believe Skedar was making, was that if you Revesal EX Fade to escape pressure/bait whiffs/etc, you will now be spending another for MB Roll as a punish. 2 bars for one defensive decision. (Granted it may JUST be Anti-Air Rolls that require the MB, but for now this is what we were given.) Yes EX Fade is amazing, but unless you're strictly talking about hitconfirms, using it as a counter tool will cost a ton.

The issue is, Piercing is the variation everyone wants nerfed. So to them, Ethereal is expendable. You can't play Ethereal effectively without bar since her whole variation is one move. Piercing, however, will probably not notice much difference in playstyle except for not having breaker so often.
So the issue here is Ethereal players are bothered by the fact that they're using probably the most ridiculous wake-up or invincible move to escape nearly anything AND not getting compensated simultaneously with a full combo of their choice?

I mean, EX fade is still unbelievably good for what it does, regardless of the combo talking point or not. It's one of the best defensive and momentum shifting moves ever created in NRS history. It's so good it can even be used in offensive manners and it gives her countless of options and mindgames along with it. Probably one of the most versatile attacks in the entire game.

Tools as powerful as these should not be around like candy on Halloween. Having to use extra resource like two bars to become Goku for a split second to blast through nearly anything and get a whiff punish combo afterwards seems reasonable to me.


Just because a character gets one bar of meter shouldn't mean they have to became Invasion Ladder Boss Sindel and have access to highly potent moves that are just as strong or rewarding as X-Ray attacks. This has been a huge design flaw since MK9 with some characters and I'm glad NRS is finally starting to realize it and tacking on more resource for some of the insane one bar armor or EX attacks.
 
So the issue here is Ethereal players are bothered by the fact that they're using probably the most ridiculous wake-up or invincible move to escape nearly anything AND not getting compensated simultaneously with a full combo of their choice?

Tools as powerful as these should not be around like candy on Halloween. Having to use extra resource like two bars to become Goku for a split second to blast through nearly anything and get a whiff punish combo afterwards seems reasonable to me.
I'm aware that EX Fade is most definitely an S-Tier tool. Even made a vid on it. I just feel like it plays out much different in game than it sounds on paper. (Assuming again, that ground hitting Roll requires meter to launch). The placing of EX Fade and its potential conversions are the key behind playing it.

It will also depend on what else gets changed about other characters' offensive pressure, obviously. I won't say Ethereal Mileena is "dead", but I have a feeling a change like that could hit it harder than you think.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
MB overhead flip no longer launches. MB claw swipe no longer has armour. MB acid puddle now stops running though.
well at least he still has Force ball combos to launch. not like he has no ways to launch including F412 in all variations for meterless and maybe in nimble for high damage.

i think he will be alright, and that spit stopping run kind of makes it more useful.
 

TamedLizard

Buff George
Reptile will be fine.

Pounce is still good for counter zoning. Not to mention gives you the ability to 50/50 your wake-up. Both options armored.

Ex Swipe will likely still launch. So he can still cash out of his low combo starters for 35%+ in the corner.

Quite literally my only concern is his AAing. Swipe may at least still trade with jump ins, but I guess we'll see. S1 is bleh, B1 is unreliable, and D1 is also inconsistent.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
What if the entire goal is to make Reptile more of a zoner? Random thought, but faster acid spit and ground spit would work very well with his forceballs.

Making overhead flip not combo means he couldn't easily counterzone for full combo, removing armour from claw swipe would make finally closing space against him more rewarding.

Just a potential idea out there I guess?
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
actually the Shinnok community took the BS nerfs pretty nicely.

some people (me included) think that it would have been better to just make the projectile between -6 and -8, but nobody's claiming the character to be useless.