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Question - Grandmaster Deleted Account.

What NERFS will Grandmaster Sub-Zero Receive?

  • Further Small Scaling on Shatters

    Votes: 12 15.2%
  • Shatters Now Only Launch if Meterburned

    Votes: 11 13.9%
  • Cool Down on Clone has Increased

    Votes: 20 25.3%
  • Grandmaster Can No Longer Clone in the Corner

    Votes: 8 10.1%
  • Something Else

    Votes: 7 8.9%
  • Grandmaster will Receive No Nerfs ⛄

    Votes: 50 63.3%

  • Total voters
    79

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Funny thing is that most of Sub's very bad matchups are top tier characters. If Alien, Demo, Piercing, Takeda, Mystic, and D'Vorah get toned back significantly, then boom- Grandmaster Sub is a top ten character. Not to mention his other variations may get buffed too, so I wouldn't be too scared about Sub.
 

sIllverback

Lin Kuei Grandmaster
Lol I'm just sitting here waiting for MK9 flashbacks when Sub went from top 5 to bottom 5 over the course of the game's life span. Let's all hold hands and pray to Freezus that ALL Sub-Zeros, from Grandmasters to Cryomancers, come out of the patch in a better state.

#PrayToFreezus
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Slide does not go under reptile fireballs.
Ex frostbomb launcher now -21 on block.
Clone does not come out point blank ever, prevents it for being used as a parry during rushdown.
Shatter damage done per shard, instead of 1 tiny shard knipping your feet for 20%.

That's about it. Thank you NRS.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Slide does not go under reptile fireballs.
Ex frostbomb launcher now -21 on block.
Clone does not come out point blank ever, prevents it for being used as a parry during rushdown.
Shatter damage done per shard, instead of 1 tiny shard knipping your feet for 20%.

That's about it. Thank you NRS.
No
No, only because I can name countless safe launchers and mega blockstun launchers. Plus it's -10 already.
Hell no
No, instead I'll take a 3% nerf to shatter combos, ONLY IF sub zero is finally fixed and works properly in a fighting game and all his tools are reliable.

But I acknowledge your hate of sub zero as a reptile player. We do body your kind :DOGE
 

Damaja325

Stylin' & Low Profilin'
sub-zero doesn't need buffs. nerfs if anything. if he gets buffed, it'll just be the case as is it was with mileena where she was already pretty good, but went to top tier because of buffs and nerfs to her bad matchups. so no buffs for sub, he's already very strong.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
sub-zero doesn't need buffs. nerfs if anything. if he gets buffed, it'll just be the case as is it was with mileena where she was already pretty good, but went to top tier because of buffs and nerfs to her bad matchups. so no buffs for sub, he's already very strong.
*yawn
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Nobody and i mean nobody not even Tom with his 15 years old girl like tantrums thinks that Kenshi is on the level of GM SZ. Coz its like night and day difference. Not to mention you're talking about 2 people when in bigger picture not even 1/100 of people who think Kenshi is trash (low tier) also think that GM SZ is bad. Simply because he isn't.
yeah Sub Zero has his problems and they are real, hitbox issues, corner uppercuts miss rezze misses in corner and alot of stuff sucks about GM Sub Zero, but we all know with those problems he is a great character and does very well, he has capability to freeze opponent in clone and preform a pseudo vortex( what i call a P vortex is when you can armor through it or have a gap when a traditional vortex can't be armored and forces opponent to guess between oh/low again after restand/freeze/? and he gets this aftyer a freeze that grounds him or not) if you time it right you can hit them right after they unfreeze from clone. thats one great tool he has, then he has a solid OH b2 and a plethora of lows that are safe. fast normals and a way to trap people away from him that can also be used as a parry. SZ GM is in no way bad, only way he can suck is having the wrong person behind the controller of him.


Kenshi on the other hand Blows in many ways, Balanced is built to Zone and keep others out, even though his kit is geared to do this well, the game is not geared for that. Run mechanic and several other option in this game make sit near impossible to keep him out, in fact things like Low profiling slides , Teleports, dive kicks and so on are the Kryptonite of Kenshi and on top of that his Mids either don't reach far enough to be effective or his mids don't work on females and wiff contantly, as well as some specials he has miss crossovers. Then we get into Kenshi's horrible Neutral which is ehat cripples him, Close up he has no solid tool to keep others out, A D4 would be nice but its 13 frames startup, His D1 only grants Armor that wiffs airborn opponenets crossing over, so when it all coms down to it, at the end of the day Kenshi has no defense against Rushdown the Core Staple of this game, and since his other main focus Keep out is not suffecient he has many isses surviving matches.

like Immortal said the difference is Day and night. GM has Great Neutral and Zoning, Gap closers for anti Zoning with Clone and ways to trap them in one place or away from him to cover up his flaws i wish Kenshi had that. i could only dream




If Sub Zero gets adjustments to fix his Issues which could be done, we would have to be carful in what was buffed and Nerf other things to Make it fair, since this game is almost balanced, if we Buff him when others get nerfed it could turn into the Mileena situation which i guess is fine since she isn't Broken, but does he need to be the Best in the game? Not my call or anyone elses on this site all i know is NRS will have to be careful when Buffing GM and will have to Newrf certain things slightly to level him out if he gets buffs. i would love for his combos not to wiff or anyones combos not to wiff.
 
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Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
As a SZ mainer, I know of his problems.

Universally, his problem is the missable hitbox against all females. He can't even uppercut them from behind them.

I don't think that GM needs to be nerfed. He's fine as he is and on par with A+ characters. The only problem there is the Ice Klone whiffing issues, which NEED to be fixed. Another fix that Ice Klone needs to get is the LOW PART against Alien. You all know that Alien with his Tail Grab CAN pass through his Ice Klone and catch Subby's legs. As proof, you saw Tweedy's match against Buffalo.

Another problem is the slow D1. He only needs to have it a bit faster.

That's all for the GM.

For Cryo, he needs to fix his style as the offensive character. Other Cryo mainers would know it very well than me, but I know that Air Ice Hammer NEEDS to have an EX just like the grounded Ice Hammer do.

Unbreakable has his own issues and needs buffs to be on par with the other variations.

Ice Aura has its own issue. Since Aura is a living Ice Klone, it ought to protect Sub Zero from chipping and DOT attacks, including the projectiles, for as long as it's being active.

Another problem is his Barrier of Frost. He CAN'T protect himself from OH and JI and NJ attacks. However, for a weird reason he CAN protect himself from some teleportation attacks, like Scorpion's and Mileena's.

That's all from me. If he gets nerfed, then he'll be on par with the C tier characters, and I don't like it. He had already enough problems with the nerfs.
 
As a SZ mainer, I know of his problems.

Universally, his problem is the missable hitbox against all females. He can't even uppercut them from behind them.

I don't think that GM needs to be nerfed. He's fine as he is and on par with A+ characters. The only problem there is the Ice Klone whiffing issues, which NEED to be fixed. Another fix that Ice Klone needs to get is the LOW PART against Alien. You all know that Alien with his Tail Grab CAN pass through his Ice Klone and catch Subby's legs. As proof, you saw Tweedy's match against Buffalo.

Another problem is the slow D1. He only needs to have it a bit faster.

That's all for the GM.

For Cryo, he needs to fix his style as the offensive character. Other Cryo mainers would know it very well than me, but I know that Air Ice Hammer NEEDS to have an EX just like the grounded Ice Hammer do.

Unbreakable has his own issues and needs buffs to be on par with the other variations.

Ice Aura has its own issue. Since Aura is a living Ice Klone, it ought to protect Sub Zero from chipping and DOT attacks, including the projectiles, for as long as it's being active.

Another problem is his Barrier of Frost. He CAN'T protect himself from OH and JI and NJ attacks. However, for a weird reason he CAN protect himself from some teleportation attacks, like Scorpion's and Mileena's.

That's all from me. If he gets nerfed, then he'll be on par with the C tier characters, and I don't like it. He had already enough problems with the nerfs.
Shat about his godlike jip? I mean i like to play him but his jip is just too strong, and yeah i would like to use b2 b2 d1 b12 clone on females too (equallity)
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Shat about his godlike jip? I mean i like to play him but his jip is just too strong, and yeah i would like to use b2 b2 d1 b12 clone on females too (equallity)
You can do double D1. I have done this a while ago when I got back on training after a long time. The females are a bit light than the males.

His JIPs are fine. They are on par with the other characters' JIPs. Universally his DMG is 2%, while the JIK is 3%. I rarely use the JIK as starter, like the following combos:

JIKxxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, JIP, 1, 1, 112.
JIK, D1, 1, B12xxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, 112.
JIK, D4xxIce Klone (similar to the starting match), ...

And many more. ;)
 
You can do double D1. I have done this a while ago when I got back on training after a long time. The females are a bit light than the males.

His JIPs are fine. They are on par with the other characters' JIPs. Universally his DMG is 2%, while the JIK is 3%. I rarely use the JIK as starter, like the following combos:

JIKxxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, JIP, 1, 1, 112.
JIK, D1, 1, B12xxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, 112.
JIK, D4xxIce Klone (similar to the starting match), ...

And many more. ;)
I know about 2x d1, but for 1 or 2%? No thanks, cuz its not that ez, i know buffalo does that
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
You can do double D1. I have done this a while ago when I got back on training after a long time. The females are a bit light than the males.

His JIPs are fine. They are on par with the other characters' JIPs. Universally his DMG is 2%, while the JIK is 3%. I rarely use the JIK as starter, like the following combos:

JIKxxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, JIP, 1, 1, 112.
JIK, D1, 1, B12xxIce Klone, NJP, JIP, 112.
JIK, D4xxIce Klone (similar to the starting match), ...

And many more. ;)
Don't make it sound like that makes it magically consistent. Nothing sub does against females is consistent. All male combos should work the same against females. All launch heights regardless of crouch should be the same, and all the other crap sub has to deal with needs to be gone.

Its frustrating when others just pass off female hitboxes and other bugs solely based on his corner game. (I'm talking in general btw, not you). People would rather let him stay the way he is because to them its a twisted version of balance.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
No, I mean Nerfs to GM.

That Alien Tail not going through Clone is going to Cost GM something. Give GM something Mid Screen take away his Corner game...Who knows? Reptile losing his ex launchers is unsettling and makes me wonder what they've done to the frost bomb. If EX no longer launches and regular frost bomb can't be used with Shatters THEN we have been Nerfed to the Ground.

But hey, I'm sure I'm wrong and They couldn't be 'That Ruthless' we will just have to Chill Out and wait and see...(pun intended :cool:)
lol man, how do you take 2 BUFFS for Sub Zero and turn it into a possible bad thing for him? are you Paranoid much?

Thats awesome one less move goes through clone! number two Cryo has Command Grab. tick thrown makes him relevant! i just see good things. and really even though they have faild before, they have tried to make an effort to buff Sub Zero in almost every patch. noone can say they havent tried.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I think it's Cryo Exclusive.

A few people are saying that it's the Start Up of Cold Blooded then there's the #Polar Puncture from Paulo himself which could be another name for Cold Blooded as it may be a Special now rather than the End of a String which Cabjoy has suggested in his video which is a Exclsuively a Cyro Move.
yeah i seen the convos, and the Tick throw is Exclusive to Cryomancer and the nerf to Alien's Tail is secretley a Buff to GM as well :)
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Lol, yeah I am but trying to Chill

With the command grab, I think it's Cryo Exclusive.

A few people are saying that it's the Start Up of Cold Blooded then there's the #Polar Puncture from Paulo himself which could be another name for Cold Blooded as it may be a Special now rather than the End of a String which Cabjoy has suggested in his video which is a Exclusively a Cyro Move.
If it's a Cryo exclusive, then it might be a special cancel for a longer combo there. If so, the corner combo would be:

JIP, B12xxT (the new command grab), B2, B2, F42TxxEX Hammer, F42TxxEX Iceball, F42TxxEX Hammer, 123xxSlide.

Or

B2, B2, F42TxxEX Hammer, F42TxxEX Iceball, F42TxxEX Hammer, D4xxT, 112/F12/F33/B33D4/123xxSlide.

I only hope that the Throw can catch the stunned opponent.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
If it's a Cryo exclusive, then it might be a special cancel for a longer combo there. If so, the corner combo would be:

JIP, B12xxT (the new command grab), B2, B2, F42TxxEX Hammer, F42TxxEX Iceball, F42TxxEX Hammer, 123xxSlide.

Or

B2, B2, F42TxxEX Hammer, F42TxxEX Iceball, F42TxxEX Hammer, D4xxT, 112/F12/F33/B33D4/123xxSlide.

I only hope that the Throw can catch the stunned opponent.
Cryo mancer is cool and all, but i want to see Unbreakable Buffs. and Raiden MOS Buffs, And Balanced Kenshi buffs. because Kenshi Balanced is
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Cryo mancer is cool and all, but i want to see Unbreakable Buffs. and Raiden MOS Buffs, And Balanced Kenshi buffs. because Kenshi Balanced is
We'll see later in the Kombat Kast video. I think that they're hiding them for surprise. I hope they fix UB, so that I can play him properly.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Short term for UnBreakable.
ohh yueah for sure, I want persoannally you know from PM's but, Barrier of Frsot needs to stop JI(P/K)'s

among other things. id love an extra Overhead, that launches when Aura is active. i think it would be crazy fun for that variation alone. lkike a 3 hit move that ends in Overhead, Splats without Aura, and Launches when Aura is Active on him.

just my idea that i think would be cool. even though he doesn't need that sort of thing. it would be great for his midscreen. B2 is good but seriously 21% is not that great considering most of the cast.