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Discussion What is actually wrong with MKXL

hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Who asked for player 1 advantage or for pokes to be punishable? Not everybody is in MK9's ass :confused:

And it's not jump in variety, just not as strong as they are here. Pure misrepresentation there.
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.

I know he will never say this, but I think it would be awesome if he did.

The constant dissection of his work and incessant whining about it has to be grating.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
hkriderz said:
Who asked for player 1 advantage or for pokes to be punishable? Not everybody is in MK9's ass :confused:

And it's not jump in variety, just not as strong as they are here. Pure misrepresentation there.
Click to expand...
I think the number of "OP" jump ins are a lot smaller than TYM would have you believe.
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Another big problem is when people do the design docs, but conveniently ignore characters who kind of fit the "fair" (hate this word) type of character they want.

Like let's look at Ermac.

-Could go for his big shot mixups into big damage, incredibly unsafe
-Has a f43 option that is a safe overhead but low damaging
-Has a plethora of moves that could serve as a anti air that all lead to high damage
-Best armored move is a knockdown and like 15%, all others are brutally unsafe if baited

So he's got the high risk, high reward 50/50 options, the annoying but not launching armor, and he's very good at swatting people out of the air at most ranges...but now HE'S gotta go. You talk about moving the goal posts. No one actually knows what they want, they just lose to it and say its gotta go, its gotta go.

What can stay then? We'll never know, the game just has to comply with "the rules." The same "rules" that Scorpion broke by being in IGAU, and look how that turned out. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
 
Meep8345

Meep8345

Noob
Really to me the problem is almost every character runs at the speed of fucking usain bolt and has crazy advancing normals. Also 50/50's that make you guess again after guessing right is dumb plus certain jump-in's are just crazy. Mkx is a fun game but it's hella scrubby, it's just a constant scramble and worrying about all their options in the neutral.
 
Meep8345

Meep8345

Noob
KingHippo said:
Another big problem is when people do the design docs, but conveniently ignore characters who kind of fit the "fair" (hate this word) type of character they want.

Like let's look at Ermac.

-Could go for his big shot mixups into big damage, incredibly unsafe
-Has a f43 option that is a safe overhead but low damaging
-Has a plethora of moves that could serve as a anti air that all lead to high damage
-Best armored move is a knockdown and like 15%, all others are brutally unsafe if baited

So he's got the high risk, high reward 50/50 options, the annoying but not launching armor, and he's very good at swatting people out of the air at most ranges...but now HE'S gotta go. You talk about moving the goal posts. No one actually knows what they want, they just lose to it and say its gotta go, its gotta go.

What can stay then? We'll never know, the game just has to comply with "the rules." The same "rules" that Scorpion broke by being in IGAU, and look how that turned out. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Click to expand...
Ermac is how most characters should be imo. He's well balanced but spectral/mystic can be kinda crazy.
 
hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Rude said:
I think the number of "OP" jump ins are a lot smaller than TYM would have you believe.
Click to expand...
TYM yea. But even top players and REO even made a few videos acknowledging this issue.

Let's be real, we over exaggerate a lot on MKX. But it can't be denied some of the issues and dumb stuff it has. I knew long ago not to take seriously some posts are always written so over the top to show MKX as this joke made by NRS, when in fact it's a good game plagued by a few issues. Jump ins are a big part of them.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
KingHippo said:
Another big problem is when people do the design docs, but conveniently ignore characters who kind of fit the "fair" (hate this word) type of character they want.

Like let's look at Ermac.

-Could go for his big shot mixups into big damage, incredibly unsafe
-Has a f43 option that is a safe overhead but low damaging
-Has a plethora of moves that could serve as a anti air that all lead to high damage
-Best armored move is a knockdown and like 15%, all others are brutally unsafe if baited

So he's got the high risk, high reward 50/50 options, the annoying but not launching armor, and he's very good at swatting people out of the air at most ranges...but now HE'S gotta go. You talk about moving the goal posts. No one actually knows what they want, they just lose to it and say its gotta go, its gotta go.

What can stay then? We'll never know, the game just has to comply with "the rules." The same "rules" that Scorpion broke by being in IGAU, and look how that turned out. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Click to expand...
Strings that are 0 on block while he has a 6 frame poke, jump punch that doesn't need to auto correct, push back on his armored move that basically makes it neutral on block(too fast to break as well, catches jumps), safe overhead option and staggerable low that can lead into an overhead or low, top tier anti airs when a lot of characters have dick for anti airs, especially full combo anti airs. Push also demands respect at a lot of ranges, making his cheap jump ins, run up whatever, run up grab, etc, harder to deal with.

Ermac basically has everything, on top of the unsafe 50/50s that go for 35%-40%, and unsafe launching armor on wake up.
 
REO

REO

Undead
Safe / Psuedo Safe Armor Launchers:

Goro - Has 2 of them
Lackey
Tremor - Has 2 of them
Liu kang
Alien - Armor Rekkas
Ermac - Mystic EX Push (inb4 someone says the trade thing never happens) / Spectral EX Air Blast
Sub-Zero - Cryomancer
Raiden

Hard to punish Armor Launchers for some characters: (either due to distance, block stun, not negative enough, done meaty, or need stamina to punish)

Sub-Zero - Frost Bomb
Kenshi - Kenjutsu Overhead, Balanced Rising Karma, Possessed Sickle Lift
Predator - Scimtar Stab
Shinnok - Bone Shaper
Johnny Cage - EX Nutpunch
Kotal Kahn - Overhead Sword
Takeda - Lasher



Not sure why anyone is even trying to downplay some of the inconsistent punishes on armor attacks in this game. If you guys don't believe me and think these armor attacks are easy punishable 100% of the time, then watch plenty of tournament matches where you will see occasionally some of the moves mentioned above go unpunished by some of our best players for one of many different reasons.

One armor launcher that was difficult to punish 100% of the time back then when blocked was Tempest EX Spin, NRS addressed that and hopefully they keep listening to make this game more consistent. If an armor launcher is supposed to be full combo punishable on block, then it should be full combo punishable and not turn into a difficult punish our "psuedo safe" launcher against certain characters due to numerous variables like distance, pushback, etc. etc.

I hope NRS continues the path they are doing and starts addressing more of these inconsistencies. As mentioned before, they've already done this with some armor launchers like Tempest EX Spin, Outlaw EX Sand, etc. etc. Which means they are aware of some of the issues.

MKXL is 10x better of a game than previous versions of MKX were. I'm hoping this patch continues the trend and improves MKXL way better than it currently is.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
YOMI REO said:
Safe / Psuedo Safe Armor Launchers:

Goro - Has 2 of them
Lackey
Tremor - Has 2 of them
Liu kang
Alien - Armor Rekkas
Ermac - Mystic EX Push (inb4 someone says the trade thing never happens) / Spectral EX Air Blast
Sub-Zero - Cryomancer
Raiden

Hard to punish Armor Launchers for some characters: (either due to distance, block stun, not negative enough, done meaty, or need stamina to punish)

Sub-Zero - Frost Bomb
Kenshi - Kenjutsu Overhead, Balanced Rising Karma, Possessed Sickle Lift
Predator - Scimtar Stab
Shinnok - Bone Shaper
Johnny Cage - EX Nutpunch
Kotal Kahn - Overhead Sword
Takeda - Lasher



Not sure why anyone is even trying to downplay some of the inconsistent punishes on armor attacks in this game. If you guys don't believe me and think these armor attacks are easy punishable 100% of the time, then watch plenty of tournament matches where you will see occasionally some of the moves mentioned above go unpunished by some of our best players for one of many different reasons.

One armor launcher that was difficult to punish 100% of the time back then when blocked was Tempest EX Spin, NRS addressed that and hopefully they keep listening to make this game more consistent. If an armor launcher is supposed to be full combo punishable on block, then it should be full combo punishable and not turn into a difficult punish our "psuedo safe" launcher against certain characters due to numerous variables like distance, pushback, etc. etc.

I hope NRS continues the path they are doing and starts addressing more of these inconsistencies. As mentioned before, they've already done this with some armor launchers like Tempest EX Spin, Outlaw EX Sand, etc. etc. Which means they are aware of some of the issues.

MKXL is 10x better of a game than previous versions of MKX were. I'm hoping this patch continues the trend and improves MKXL way better than it currently is.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, the biggest thing that angers me about it for sure is the inconsistencies the game has. I didn't really play MK9 too much but was pushback a problem in that or is this a new issue with MKX?
 
haketh

haketh

Noob
Rude said:
The only armor I can think of that is safe and launches are Tremor Crystal shatter, Goro Punchwalk, F/T Lackey DP. Who else?

I could go through a list if you like, but I'd wager that there are more unsafe launchers in the game than safe ones, by a pretty wide margin.

There is a LOT of misinformation, exaggeration, and out and out lies that get pushed here as truth about the game.

I don't think there's anything elitist about being realistic and saying that you should play the game you have or shut up about it. (Not you, specifically)

If people's personal pet peeves about the game don't change with this patch, they'll have to deal with it. It's not like people don't know what the common complaints are. It's not like any new ground is actually being broken with these threads. It's the same dead horses beaten over and over and over and over again.
Click to expand...
Didn't someone go through all the launching armor attacks in the game & like only three were safe
 
REO

REO

Undead
CrazyFingers said:
Pretty much, the biggest thing that angers me about it for sure is the inconsistencies the game has. I didn't really play MK9 too much but was pushback a problem in that or is this a new issue with MKX?
Click to expand...
Aside from a ton of the bugs and exploits in MK9 that everyone couldn't stand... Everyone bitched non stop about the armor, low profiling issues, top tiers, wake-up system, instant air fireballs, and the rushdown / offense for many characters.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
YOMI REO said:
Aside from a ton of the bugs and exploits in MK9 that everyone couldn't stand... Everyone bitched non stop about the armor, low profiling issues, top tiers, wake-up system, instant air fireballs, and the rushdown / offense for many characters.
Click to expand...
So this has been a consistent issue? You'd think NRS would learn...
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Tweedy said:
Strings that are 0 on block while he has a 6 frame poke, jump punch that doesn't need to auto correct, push back on his armored move that basically makes it neutral on block(too fast to break as well, catches jumps), safe overhead option and staggerable low that can lead into an overhead or low, top tier anti airs when a lot of characters have dick for anti airs, especially full combo anti airs. Push also demands respect at a lot of ranges, making his cheap jump ins, run up whatever, run up grab, etc, harder to deal with.

Ermac basically has everything, on top of the unsafe 50/50s that go for 35%-40%, and unsafe launching armor on wake up.
Click to expand...
I guess what I mean is like how is that "unfair"? Like how is he not just an example of a good character who has hard to deal with tools? Those are the kind of characters that you would probably want to create, not strip down.

My barometer for unfair:




^THAT'S unfair. Idk if 6 frame pokes after a neutral string are that level.
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
KingHippo said:
Another big problem is when people do the design docs, but conveniently ignore characters who kind of fit the "fair" (hate this word) type of character they want.

Like let's look at Ermac.

-Could go for his big shot mixups into big damage, incredibly unsafe
-Has a f43 option that is a safe overhead but low damaging
-Has a plethora of moves that could serve as a anti air that all lead to high damage
-Best armored move is a knockdown and like 15%, all others are brutally unsafe if baited

So he's got the high risk, high reward 50/50 options, the annoying but not launching armor, and he's very good at swatting people out of the air at most ranges...but now HE'S gotta go. You talk about moving the goal posts. No one actually knows what they want, they just lose to it and say its gotta go, its gotta go.

What can stay then? We'll never know, the game just has to comply with "the rules." The same "rules" that Scorpion broke by being in IGAU, and look how that turned out. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Click to expand...
Yeah but you're missing:
- Ridiculous hitbox in his air normals, that he can cancel into that green explosion thing, plus he can combo off of it and jks with teleport.
- Ridiculous hitbox in his pokes (he can d4 Goro's stomp). He can jump at you for free but you can never jump on him.
- A 6f poke that he can cancel, adding more mind games into the poking game.
- Able to whiff punish with push/teleport.
- Able to trade with projectiles and get 36%+. That's right, if he trades the push with a projectile, he'll be able to get off the ground, teleport and do a full combo on you while you're floating away.
- Teleport makes him hard to zone.
- His pressure is neutral and he always has the upper hand with the poke.
- Long range fast overhead.
- Good safe zoning.

You're conveniently ignoring everything that actually makes him better than the 20 characters below him lol have you even played a good Ermac?
 
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Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
KingHippo said:
I guess what I mean is like how is that "unfair"? Like how is he not just an example of a good character who has hard to deal with tools? Those are the kind of characters that you would probably want to create, not strip down.

My barometer for unfair:




^THAT'S unfair. Idk if 6 frame pokes after a neutral string are that level.
Click to expand...
None of those videos are from current MKX.

Current MKX Ermac is above the point of balance. No one ever said he's the most broken thing ever, but if you want everyone to be in A tier, or at the point of balance, he could use some tuning.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
KingHippo said:
I guess what I mean is like how is that "unfair"? Like how is he not just an example of a good character who has hard to deal with tools? Those are the kind of characters that you would probably want to create, not strip down.

My barometer for unfair:


^THAT'S unfair. Idk if 6 frame pokes after a neutral string are that level.
Click to expand...
I don't think 9-1 matchups exist but if one did exist...it'd be Zod vs Lex
 
BoromiRofGeo

BoromiRofGeo

Noob
Tweedy said:
Bruhs need to understand that the way that another game is, isn't "the way".

Just because you started with MK9 and it was one way, and this game isn't, doesn't mean that this game is bad. If that were the case then every game would just be MK9, or Street Fighter. Those are the games that most people reference on here.
Click to expand...
this is one of the reasons why tekken franchise is so appealing to many. ive skipped tekken tag 2 but im going to play tekken 7 fully knowing that my fundamentals, mechanics, hell, even comboes are practically (ish) same. game evolves, but does it slowly and progresses with careful balancing. there is just one or two 7-3 match ups in ttt2, and all this because it is finely balanced. T7 will be, to my humble opinion, the most balanced fighting game. there will be no mk9 cyrax, mk9 kabal, or mk10 (prepatch) quan chi.
adapting to mk10 to mk9 was, and probably is, an experience, that i do not cherish.

RM Cossner said:
Yeah but you're missing:
- Ridiculous hitbox in his air normals, that he can cancel into that green explosion thing, plus he can combo off of it and jks with teleport.
- Ridiculous hitbox in his pokes (he can d4 Goro's stomp). He can jump at you for free but you can never jump on him.
- A 6f poke that he can cancel, adding more mind games into the poking game.
- Able to whiff punish with push/teleport.
- Able to trade with projectiles and get 36%+. That's right, if he trades the push with a projectile, he'll be able to get off the ground, teleport and do a full combo on you while you're floating away.
- Teleport makes him hard to zone.
- His pressure is neutral and he always has the upper hand with the poke.
- Long range fast overhead.
- Good safe zoning.

You're conveniently ignoring everything that actually makes him better than the 20 characters below him lol have you even played a good Ermac?
Click to expand...
and all that means nothing when quan chi puts you in the vortex for 100% damage, while you keep guessing what to block, low or high, like a gypsy fortune teller.
 
SHAOLIN

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
KingHippo said:
I guess what I mean is like how is that "unfair"? Like how is he not just an example of a good character who has hard to deal with tools? Those are the kind of characters that you would probably want to create, not strip down.

My barometer for unfair:




^THAT'S unfair. Idk if 6 frame pokes after a neutral string are that level.
Click to expand...
I'll give you the LEX v. ZOD vid & Cammy v. Sagat one, but that BAS's Bison vid. . . nah son.
 
SylverRye

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
BoromiRofGeo said:
this is one of the reasons why tekken franchise is so appealing to many. ive skipped tekken tag 2 but im going to play tekken 7 fully knowing that my fundamentals, mechanics, hell, even comboes are practically (ish) same. game evolves, but does it slowly and progresses with careful balancing. there is just one or two 7-3 match ups in ttt2, and all this because it is finely balanced. T7 will be, to my humble opinion, the most balanced fighting game. there will be no mk9 cyrax, mk9 kabal, or mk10 (prepatch) quan chi.
adapting to mk10 to mk9 was, and probably is, an experience, that i do not cherish.


and all that means nothing when quan chi puts you in the vortex for 100% damage, while you keep guessing what to block, low or high, like a gypsy fortune teller.
Click to expand...
Quan chi cant do that anymore....
 
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