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Discussion Is being able to cancel a D4 into a special; too strong?

Should future games have D4 cancels?


  • Total voters
    90

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
The fact is, it's different for everybody ponkss !

D4 xx Hellsparks is a blockstring & u can Meterburn this ( + on block )

Tremor D4 xx db1 is not a blockstring, you can armor or POKE with a lot of char & D4 is 12 frames -11f on block.

If D4 wasnt special cancelable it would be useless :/ and the only safe version of DB1D is with Crystalline, 0 on block. Aftershock & metallic DB1D are -15 on block.

You already know Tremor ( No Mid, no poke ), his best poke is 9f ! D4 xx Special is definitely one of the 3 best tools of Tremor Crystalline.

I won't talk for the other char cuz I dont play them :p
It is only crystalline that is the problem, d4 into low shatter. You are not gonna be doing d4 low shatter unless its max range controlling space so counterpokes aren't an option and not every character has far reaching armor.

It should be a read from the tremor player to use that option and it should end the turn when the opponent blocks the set-up; and most certainly shouldn't be able to follow-up with an Ex low shatter for full combo.
 
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ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
This is a general mechanic, and as it happened with armor launchers, is stupid for some characters, and not stupid (but necessary) for others.

Easy example. It's stupid for characters that can get a 50/50 from depending on the special after the poke.
It's not stupid for characters whose defense sucks and have no mixups. Canceling into pokes creates a block/no block mixup that they need.
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
First off, D4xHell Sparks is as much of a problem as other special canceled pokes. I think it's redundant to give a character a good tool set and then use mind games off of counter poking to get hits. Pokes should be just that, a poke. It should be a tool used as a check that doesn't have a safety net. If you made the wrong read then it's your opponent's turn and if you made the right read then you get follow up pressure/mix ups. With that said, it's not really overpowered but it's unnecessary for the majority of the characters you listed and the cast because they already have other normals that are similar to their D4.

I'm usually in agreement with @Tweedy but I have to disagree with you on this one. A spaced D4 from Kenshi is tough to get around. Follow up armor, overhead, low, teleport, push, or just another D1 or D4 are all things I'm thinking that he might do and by the time I've recognized none of the above happened I'm watching the late push/jump/throw happen, whiff punishing my attempt to take my turn back. By the way, I never played MK9 but I still don't think it's necessary for the large majority of the cast :p
 

cheschifodisito

hit me up on psn: mr_diem
Question in the title.

Shinnok, Scorpion, Sub-zero, Alien, Kotal and Tremor are the some of biggest culprits.

Its a meta that shouldn't be in the game. 6-10 frame pokes into specials some of which can launch for a full combo really defeats the purpose of pokes being negative.

If I block a low poke it should be my turn, there shouldn't be another meta game as to whether its been cancelled and I can attack back.

This is D4s specifically, where its a lot harder to whiff punish, the other buttons I don't care about because I have the option to whiff punish.

I believe most characters are down on the tier list because they don't have a true mid, and if your don't have a move like Kotals b1 or Cages F3 its much harder to make your opponent respect your options.

TL:DR D4s; fast, low profiling, far reaching and cancel-able. Is it right?

Special mention, D4 into Ice Clone shuts downs far too many characters in the roster.
especially scorpion with that stupid db4 (if im not calling it wrong) launches for a full combo
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Does anybody play Street Fighter. Poke into a fireball is one of the fundamentals.
Yeah so lets say you hit confirm 'counter hit' low short into fireball super. That's 3 bars for 30%? MKX you can just d4 flame aura or hellsparks thanks for the easy 1 bar 30%.

SF you're losing 10% of your health at most with something like this in a general footsie situation and you usually reset the neutral. In MKX they can just set play the whole round from it.

Never mind the differences in frame data. A mid is usually 10-13 frames on MK, If executed well you will stop their poke (if not low profiled) but it requires excellent spacing and to also be the quicker player in the situation. Street fighter is nowhere near that difference.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Does anybody play Street Fighter. Poke into a fireball is one of the fundamentals.
In MKX part of these specials that come out are launchers and they frame trap compared to street fighter.
Besides pokes in sf doesn't low profile despite being safe, in MKX you can poke while you're minus due some weird situations.

Still, the only thing not being fine with poke into specials i will repeat myself again, is the fact that these frame traps, if they were super negative on canceling into specials aside from d4 on block, no one would bother to do them.
 

24K

Noob
I see I see. I have't come across such hectic situations yet. I personally feel the damage is to high in MKX though. But that's another thread for another day.

Dam, what the hell Netherealm. Vote changed.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Kano and his stupid pokes with stupid db1

Jason and that stupid d1 choke or d1 cg or d1 d1 or d1 b3 fucking too much guessing on a blocked poke.

block cancel advantage should be dogshit. Not like 8-9frame gaps where you get a poke at best half the time and if you get hit its waaay worse.
 
Canceling a poke into a special was pretty much half my game in MK9(the other half was jumping).
Just another day of Tweedy marginalizing those who express mk9 as being the obvious superior game in terms of fundamentals and spacing, blah blah blah. As if anyone who states this obvious fact, a fact worth noting, is somehow taking away from poor Tweedy's success in mkx even though poor tweedy didn't even play mk9. FeelsBadMan
 

haketh

Noob
Yeah so lets say you hit confirm 'counter hit' low short into fireball super. That's 3 bars for 30%? MKX you can just d4 flame aura or hellsparks thanks for the easy 1 bar 30%.

SF you're losing 10% of your health at most with something like this in a general footsie situation and you usually reset the neutral. In MKX they can just set play the whole round from it.

Never mind the differences in frame data. A mid is usually 10-13 frames on MK, If executed well you will stop their poke (if not low profiled) but it requires excellent spacing and to also be the quicker player in the situation. Street fighter is nowhere near that difference.
Uuuuuuh, characters do a lot more than just 10-15% meter less off of Cr.mks in SF. Cr. MKxLK Tatsu, Fierce Dragon Punch is like 25%+a grip of stun built, Cr. B into a Max Mode cancel in KOF is a shitton of life etc.

Doing silly things off of low pokes is pretty standard in FGs & pretty fun. Theirs some pretty dumb stuff like Shinnok D4xHellsparks that needs to be looked at but removing D4 cancels wholesale for the next game just sounds whack.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Uuuuuuh, characters do a lot more than just 10-15% meter less off of Cr.mks in SF. Cr. MKxLK Tatsu, Fierce Dragon Punch is like 25%+a grip of stun built, Cr. B into a Max Mode cancel in KOF is a shitton of life etc.

Doing silly things off of low pokes is pretty standard in FGs & pretty fun. Theirs some pretty dumb stuff like Shinnok D4xHellsparks that needs to be looked at but removing D4 cancels wholesale for the next game just sounds whack.
So you have gone from a standard lk into light special footsie check (what i was talking about) to full blown combos from MP/MK hit confirms.

Nobody is doing 3-5 frame combo starters on MK, anything faster than 10 frames either has no range or is a high starter. So when 6 frame long range low pokes are even low profiling mids; they get abused.

No idea about KOF so can't comment.

Doing things off low pokes is all good to catch counter pokes, but there should be some kind of risk/reward system.