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Question - Predator Final Patch?! - What should be changed?

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Note to NRS: CHIP DAMAGE SHOULD NOT KILL YOU IN THIS GAME, THEIR ARE WAYYYY TOO MANY CHARS WHOS PRESSURE IS OP. YOU SHOULD ONLY DIE ON HIT AND NOT CHIP, THIS IS A MUST CHANGE, THANK YOU.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
Scemitar slam should stay the same. It's not for waking up, it for trading with a projectile for a full combo on a read.

Right now if Predator gets cornered by a character with a good corner game or good pressure, it could be curtains.
... so ex-scimitar is for trading with a projectile you say? every proper pred player uses ex-plasma to get the upper hand at zoning. but whatever ...

can we at very least give him a backdash with wider range? I'd just like to have anything to make use of gaps in the opponents offense.

still double armor seems best to me, but a backdash could allow some interesting mindgames too! besides it wouldnt break hqt-offense, because stamina is needed for cancels...
 

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
Reading this thread makes me thank the Lord that none of you are in a position to actually implement your suggestions. There's some really game breaking ideas here and it seems like so many people don't even understand how crazy their "simple changes" are. Hqt and hunter are both fine, some of you need to separate your personal struggles as players from the character. Simple bait and punish scenarios would clear up a lot of issues I've read. If you're asking for warrior specific stuff, then ok, but even warrior is really solid now. Reducing his self destruct a tiny bit more is really the only one I can agree with. Getting a safe, guaranteed self destruct activation off a f4 would make him scary, even though he can already get that against half the cast.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
... so ex-scimitar is for trading with a projectile you say? every proper pred player uses ex-plasma to get the upper hand at zoning. but whatever ...

can we at very least give him a backdash with wider range? I'd just like to have anything to make use of gaps in the opponents offense.

still double armor seems best to me, but a backdash could allow some interesting mindgames too! besides it wouldnt break hqt-offense, because stamina is needed for cancels...
Idk about double armor. But if the offense of the game doesn't get toned down I think Predator could use better mobility.
 
Honestly better armor is unnecessary, that's why you have warrior. Giving him better armor or better frames on his lasers would make him borderline broken tbh
 

REO

Undead
Predator needs a rebalance. Similar to what they did to Quan Chi and Tanya, they should do to Predator to make it so all three of his variations are around the same level. He needs a lot of general improvements to feel more consistent and less buggy but this is at the cost of normalizing HQT so that variation doesn't get any of the unnecessary buffs it doesn't need. Point of this balance patch is to try and make everyone closer together in tiers and to not introduce more stupid top tiers or potential S tier candidates later down the road.


General:
Predator
- J+3 is now normalized.
- D+1 is now 6 frames.
- D+2 is slightly improved.
- Gut Strike (2) now has a slightly improved downward hitbox to prevent many of the low profiling issues.
- Meat Grinder (F+1,2,D+2) last hit is now a hard knockdown.
- I'm Here (B+2,2,D+2) gap before the last hit is now changed to a 6 frame gap instead of a 9 frame gap.
- Gap in Hunt Begins (2,1) on a crouch blocking opponent is now removed.
- Gap in Knock-Knock (1,2) on a crouch blocking opponent is now removed.


Hunter:
- Smart Disc into EX Far Trap now properly combos on hit and is no longer bugged.
- Medi-Kit (D,D+3) now requires and consumes one bar of stamina
- Quick Healing (D,D+3+BLK) now requires and consumes one bar of stamina
- Detonate (D,B+4 while Trap is out) now armor breaks.
- "Cloaking" EX special move is now removed and replaced with a new move called "Hunter Cloaking" which is available to the Hunter variation only.
- Hunter Cloaking now fully makes Predator invisible while retaining all of "Cloaking" frame data and properties.


Hish-Qu-Ten:
- Holding down Plasma Shot (B,F+3~hold) now has 5 extra frames of delay before you can cancel out of it on a blocking opponent only.
- Up Plasma Shot (D,F+3) is now 6 frames of start up.
- EX Up Plasma Barrage (D,F+3+BLK) is now 5 frames of start up.
- Bug where any Low Plasma Shot hitbox disappears and does not become active on a trade is now fixed and removed.


Warrior:
- All versions of grounded Yautja Strike (D,B+2) now low crush.
- Bug where Self-Detonate hitbox vanishes on an attack trade with your opponent (attacking or receiving) is now fixed and removed.
- You can now manually explode when Self-Detonate is active by inputting D,B+4 again.




That's my opinion on what they should do to Predator if their main objective is to help balance the game and decrease a lot of the BS among the cast. If their goal is to make it close to Marvel then I guess leave HQT the same or maybe buff it like some people are saying. I don't think a power zoner and character that has very good neutral presence should be a rushdown powerhouse up close with multiple +7 or +8 core strings on block. His cancels being reduced to something like +3 or +4 would be fine for the character he is. HQT already has the best string 50/50s with low lasers, the best meter building, the best zoning, the best plus frames off almost everything, best meterless damage, and can hit confirm off almost any string or attack with the use of Plasma Cancels. Rebalancing HQT by nerfing his offense and buffing him by giving the best meterless anti-air with Up Shot in comparison to all the Predator variations would be more than enough. Not to mention all of the variationless Predator buffs he would be receiving.
 
Hish-Qu-Ten:
- Holding down Plasma Shot (B,F+3~hold) now has 5 extra frames of delay before you can cancel out of it on a blocking opponent only.
- Up Plasma Shot (D,F+3) is now 6 frames of start up.
- EX Up Plasma Barrage (D,F+3+BLK) is now 5 frames of start up.
- Bug where any Low Plasma Shot hitbox disappears and does not become active on a trade is now fixed and removed.
Wait so you want to nerf HQT's cancels even more? They were already nerfed last patch. They should be left alone. HQT will fall to low tier if they do that to his laser cancel pressure. Wouldn't even be worth using.
 
Reactions: JDM

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Wait so you want to nerf HQT's cancels even more? They were already nerfed last patch. They should be left alone. HQT will fall to low tier if they do that to his laser cancel pressure. Wouldn't even be worth using.
His condition on the nerf/buff suggestion is if they're trying to balance the game not tier shift and He has a point, if HQT is meant to be a zoning variation then buff his zoning tools and tune down his offense tools. But if they are going to tier shift as usual then might as well buff HQT or leave it the same.
 

Addhad

GOD OF EARTHRELM
Wait so you want to nerf HQT's cancels even more? They were already nerfed last patch. They should be left alone. HQT will fall to low tier if they do that to his laser cancel pressure. Wouldn't even be worth using.
HE IS A ZONING CHARcter ok BEST ZONING IN THE FAME PLUS OGFRNSE WITH PLUS FRAME CANCELS SSSSSTOP. GODLIKE REACHING NORMALS SAFE 50/50S WITHA RESTAND GODLEIK DAMAGING ARMOR OK ZONING AND OFFENSE GODLIKE NJP D4 HE CAN PRES S BUTTONS AFER EVERYTHING LIKE RLLY -1 LOW LASER LEIK VREH ALSO THE D4 LOW ROFILES LEIK BREH. ZONING AND OFFENSE PREDATOR AND BUFFS DONT GO IN THE SAFE SNYANCE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOI
 
His condition on the nerf/buff suggestion is if they're trying to balance the game not tier shift and He has a point, if HQT is meant to be a zoning variation then buff his zoning tools and tune down his offense tools. But if they are going to tier shift as usual then might as well buff HQT or leave it the same.
Forget that. HQT doesn't need nerfed at all. He's nowhere near the top 3. I'd rather see no changes than what he suggested.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Forget that. HQT doesn't need nerfed at all. He's nowhere near the top 3. I'd rather see no changes than what he suggested.
Rest assured none of what he suggested is gonna happen, HQT will either get buffed a little or remain the same since we all know this is going to be the usual tier shifting kind of patches.
 

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
- D+1 is now 6 frames.
- EX Up Plasma Barrage (D,F+3+BLK) is now 5 frames of start up.
.
I fully agree with everything but these two points, and if you would go on I would quite love to hear your reasoning behind them.
Do you really feel he needs the 6f d1 when his d3 is already 7f? I'd definitely enjoy that, but I feel like it's just a weird buff given the rest of his toolset.
And then on EX Up Plasma I'm just going to flat out say that I think that's crazy.
 

jokey77

Character Loyalist
I think that everyone (includin Reo) suggested bigger buffs than I did.

Double armor is less of a change than a 5f-get-off-me move, for example.

I even think that a proper backdash would help Pred more than double armor (easier zoning). It is just that for sone reason people refuse a reasonable discussion once they read "double-armor".

I'd love to get the quan-treatment with a 6f-d1 that would greatly improve my rushdown-options!
 
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REO

Undead
Wait so you want to nerf HQT's cancels even more? They were already nerfed last patch. They should be left alone. HQT will fall to low tier if they do that to his laser cancel pressure. Wouldn't even be worth using.
He wouldn't all of a sudden become "low tier", and his cancels certainly wouldn't become useless. Look at other properly designed cancel characters like Heavy Weapons, Tanya, Shirai Ryu, Marksman, Broodmother, Raiden, Tremor, etc. Even with -5 cancel nerf to his block advantages, he'd still be the best rushdown variation for Predator and have strong offense.


What HQT's Plasma Cancels currently do:

- Allow him to hit confirm off almost any normal or string
- Give him great meterless damage and combo conversions off almost any normal or string
- Builds him extra meter
- Allows him to create many staggers and mindgames on block that Predator normally wouldn't be able to do
- Makes a lot of his full combo punishable strings safer on block
- High plus on block offense


What HQT's Plasma Cancels would do AFTER the block cancel nerf:

- Allow him to hit confirm off almost any normal or string
- Give him great meterless damage and combo conversions off almost any normal or string
- Builds him extra meter
- Allows him to create many staggers and mindgames on block that Predator normally wouldn't be able to do
- Makes a lot of his full combo punishable strings safer on block
- High plus on block offense
- Less plus on block offense


I fully agree with everything but these two points, and if you would go on I would quite love to hear your reasoning behind them.
Do you really feel he needs the 6f d1 when his d3 is already 7f? I'd definitely enjoy that, but I feel like it's just a weird buff given the rest of his toolset.
And then on EX Up Plasma I'm just going to flat out say that I think that's crazy.
The 6F D+1 is more for Predator's other variations and his general move set. But it'd probably be a little too much for HQT. Hence why that variation needs to be normalized like how Summoner and Kobu Jutsu were.

The slight buff to EX Up Plasma is to make it better than his normal Up Plasma anti-air by 1 frame and make it worth using meter for. Currently the EX Up Plasma is 6F in the game and even then, it doesn't anti-air as consistently against a majority of the cast as one would think.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Most people make buff/nerf suggestions with current characters in mind.

We all know that there's going to be nerfs. You can't buff HQT if they're going to nerf all of the top tiers, or most of them. You're just replacing the top tiers with buffed mid or high mid tiers.
 
He wouldn't all of a sudden become "low tier", and his cancels certainly wouldn't become useless. Look at other properly designed cancel characters like Heavy Weapons, Tanya, Shirai Ryu, Marksman, Broodmother, Raiden, Tremor, etc. Even with -5 cancel nerf to his block advantages, he'd still be the best rushdown variation for Predator and have strong offense.


What HQT's Plasma Cancels currently do:

- Allow him to hit confirm off almost any normal or string
- Give him great meterless damage and combo conversions off almost any normal or string
- Builds him extra meter
- Allows him to create many staggers and mindgames on block that Predator normally wouldn't be able to do
- Makes a lot of his full combo punishable strings safer on block
- High plus on block offense


What HQT's Plasma Cancels would do AFTER the block cancel nerf:

- Allow him to hit confirm off almost any normal or string
- Give him great meterless damage and combo conversions off almost any normal or string
- Builds him extra meter
- Allows him to create many staggers and mindgames on block that Predator normally wouldn't be able to do
- Makes a lot of his full combo punishable strings safer on block
- High plus on block offense
- Less plus on block offense




The 6F D+1 is more for Predator's other variations and his general move set. But it'd probably be a little too much for HQT. Hence why that variation needs to be normalized like how Summoner and Kobu Jutsu were.

The slight buff to EX Up Plasma is to make it better than his normal Up Plasma anti-air by 1 frame and make it worth using meter for. Currently the EX Up Plasma is 6F in the game and even then, it doesn't anti-air as consistently against a majority of the cast as one would think.
I'm biased but I think your changes make HQT less versatile. He has to rush down is some matches like Quan, Takeda, and full auto. The best part about HQT is that you can play him heavy rush down, heavy zoning, or a mix of both. The only cancel I would nerf if you had to nerf one is standing 4 pcc since its +14 and jails. He needs 12 and 32 pcc to remain +7. If Dvorah, Johnny, and Liu can keep their jailing cancels I don't see why HQT can't keep his +7 cancel. It sounds like you want to make HQT a variation for purely zoning which I don't agree with.
 
Reactions: JDM

JDM

Noob
Definitely disagree with Reo here. His cancels were fine pre patch let alone need more nerfs. The rest of the buffs don't nearly make up for that. You NEED to play offense in this game. Take away his offense and he'd be bad (in this current meta for sure)
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Definitely disagree with Reo here. His cancels were fine pre patch let alone need more nerfs. The rest of the buffs don't nearly make up for that. You NEED to play offense in this game. Take away his offense and he'd be bad (in this current meta for sure)
So when his cancels are from -5 to +2 on block, suddenly he can't play offensively anymore? Then what the hell has Heavy Weapon been doing?
 

JDM

Noob
So when his cancels are from -5 to +2 on block, suddenly he can't play offensively anymore? Then what the hell has Heavy Weapon been doing?
Heavy weapons has 50/50 mixups that he can make safe with his cancels. Predator does not. Not real ones anyways.

And not only that no one plays heavy weapons anyways lul