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Match-up Discussion - Grandmaster Sub-Zero MU Notes

DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
New patch on the way so lets reserve further discussion on Cryomancer and Unbreakable.

@Dankster Morgan you think GM has any chance of improvement? My personal thoughts are if they are going to buff Sub's other variants, they would have to touch the frame data on his strings which means safe ice clones could be a thing without meter. Kinda crazy when you think about it.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
DarksydeDash said:
New patch on the way so lets reserve further discussion on Cryomancer and Unbreakable.

@Dankster Morgan you think GM has any chance of improvement? My personal thoughts are if they are going to buff Sub's other variants, they would have to touch the frame data on his strings which means safe ice clones could be a thing without meter. Kinda crazy when you think about it.
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Sub is a few changes from being the best character in the game and from being the worst character. I honestly don't know, but I'd rather talk about it in one of the many sub patch threads than this one.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Dankster Morgan said:
Sub is a few changes from being the best character in the game and from being the worst character. I honestly don't know, but I'd rather talk about it in one of the many sub patch threads than this one.
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Completely fair point but don't go too crazy on MU notes. :p
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Zerodegreez said:
I expect they'll Kill Grandmaster for Exactly that Reason, I just don't believe NRS WIll Fairly Buff Unbreakable and Cryomancer any other way. We know it can be done sure, we know it can be fair. But this is NRS we're talking about.

Fingers crossed for Smart Fair decisions but yeah dreading it now it's a Reality...
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I don't think GMSZ needs nerf. He's already at the fair point that he no longer needs any buffs/nerfs. This is how it should be balanced. The other variations needs buffs and tweaks to be on strength par with GM.

We'll see if GM gets nerfed or buffed by doing the known combo to check its DMG.
 
sIllverback

sIllverback

Lin Kuei Grandmaster
Zerodegreez said:
I expect they'll Kill Grandmaster for Exactly that Reason, I just don't believe NRS WIll Fairly Buff Unbreakable and Cryomancer any other way. We know it can be done sure, we know it can be fair. But this is NRS we're talking about.

Fingers crossed for Smart Fair decisions but yeah dreading it now it's a Reality...
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It's like shades of MK9 all over again. Sub-Zero was top tier at the start of the game, and he got damage nerfs that were comparable to Cyber-Sub right now, and every other character got buffed to have an armored, advancing EX special, meaning it was literally impossible to place a safe clone. It resulted in Sub being close to bottom 5 at the end of the game's life span. Let's hope NRS doesn't go down the same road. I'm both excited and terrified for the upcoming patch.
 
Revenant Zero

Revenant Zero

Death Comes
Ancestral Kung Jin... I totally forgot this variation was a thing until yesterday. I adapted to the strategy of my opponent but I could just be playing an overly skewed MU or the player and myself were just scrubs. Anyone know the MU for this? Not asking for Bojutsu or Shaolin.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Revenant Zero said:
Ancestral Kung Jin... I totally forgot this variation was a thing until yesterday. I adapted to the strategy of my opponent but I could just be playing an overly skewed MU or the player and myself were just scrubs. Anyone know the MU for this? Not asking for Bojutsu or Shaolin.
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Iv never played it or even seen it.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Zerodegreez said:
Anyone know how to play Balanced and Possessed Kenshi match up with GM?

I've come up across some very solid Possesseds and Balanceds lately and felt a little helpless.
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Don't Klone midscreen vs Balanced, he can punish any Klone attempt. Just try to bait any of the Balanced specials because they are really unsafe and slide is a really good tool to punish a whiffed teleflurry if Sub-Zero is past running distance.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
His only weak point is his astral projection's low part. You can pass through it by slide. The Ice Klone is useless against him, because he has the ability to pass through your klone. His best MU is only mostly zoning, so you'll need to get near him and punish him. ALWAYS stay stand up block, because both sides of the astral projections keep hitting mid and OH. So rush on him, and if you see him do the AP move, just defend.

Good luck.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Tanno said:
His only weak point is his astral projection's low part. You can pass through it by slide. The Ice Klone is useless against him, because he has the ability to pass through your klone. His best MU is only mostly zoning, so you'll need to get near him and punish him. ALWAYS stay stand up block, because both sides of the astral projections keep hitting mid and OH. So rush on him, and if you see him do the AP move, just defend.

Good luck.
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I'm sorry but I disagree with this.

Don't stand block vs Balanced. Neutral crouching a teleflurry can be fatal for Kenshi, especially considering that Sub can corner you in one combo. It's too good of an opportunity to pass up. Overhead slash can be reacted to, just look at what Kenshi does with his hand motions during startup and you can do it. Even if he hits you with an OH slash, who cares? It's neutral on hit and doesn't really do much damage.

His teleflurry doesn't hit mid. Push does, sure. But once you're in push range, all he can threaten you with is armor.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
All most all of the OP is probably different. He will do better vs some of the characters that used 50/50s and armor launchers and whatnot to fight him.

And some characters like Scorpion or Kitana who would normally be dead as fuck in the corner can no get off the ground, but in characters like Scorpion's case, the risk/reward for waking up in the corner is terrible for them. I'm starting to think the corner game isn't even worse, it's just different now. Sub can't armor break as much, but the risk/reward is more skewed in his favor with the loss of launching armor. How this will affect a lot of his matchups, idk.

He no longer gets bodied by Alien, I can say that much.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Zerodegreez said:
Anyone played GM VS the New Aftershock Tremor?

Labbing it at the moment don't really have an answer for the Air Quake except for Blocking Low. He has some Punishable moves but getting in is tough. Ice Clone Mid Screen isn't the Best of options either.

Would Unbreakable be a Better option?
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Ice Klone is useless against Tremor, because he's a good zoner. I would say that it's 7-3 in Tremor's favor. Been playing with @ShArp , who happens to be a Tremor main.

UB is a no go, too, because he might send skydrop rocks, because the air and skydrop attacks can't get parried.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Zerodegreez said:
So, it's THAT bad huh?

I did my first FT7 post Patch last night and did alright being up 4 - 2 until my opponent picked Aftershock Tremor where I lost 5 Straight to just Aftershock..SMH. Most of them went to 3 Rounds at least but it was Tough that's for sure.

Labbed it afterwards trying to see what we can do. It's not Mystic Ermac bad but it still feels like Sub can't do much.
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Well, it's THAT bad. Now with the new patch I think it'll be at least 6-4 or still 7-3 in Tremor's favor. With a bit of good patience you'll see that Tremor is a bit similar to Kenshi in Zoning, but you'll want to jump through the rolling stones, ducking without block (I think) the thrown rocks, and run/slide away from sky drop rocks. And there are the IAQs (Insta Air Quakes) (DD4), which you'll want to jump or get full monitor distance, because it's a moderate ranged attack.
 
OmGxBdON

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
U guys are tripping over aftershock tremor. The MU is 5-5. It's 6-4 if the tremor plzyer masters air quake which no one can so its 5-5. The MU is the same pre patch. Sub gets zoned out but once u get him in the corner u better mix his ass to the ground.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
OmGxBdON said:
U guys are tripping over aftershock tremor. The MU is 5-5. It's 6-4 if the tremor plzyer masters air quake which no one can so its 5-5. The MU is the same pre patch. Sub gets zoned out but once u get him in the corner u better mix his ass to the ground.
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Tremor players who can't play Aftershock, go with Metallic, double hitting armor helps a lot.
 
OmGxBdON

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Zerodegreez said:
Good to know, it's Only 5-5.

I've played this Match up only once before, if I'm getting 3 Rounds right off the bat post patch somethings are working and something's arent I just need to zero in on things to close the rounds.

Corner is still fair game, getting there is the challenge.
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It's just who plays better honestly and the tremor players ability to stay out of the corner. Also to guess right on the mix ups as well
 
AcMilan91

AcMilan91

Noob
Come on its not that hard against tremor, just need to be close to him, and get him in corner, sub is really strong now...
 
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