Paragon General Discussion Thread

Sevarog's Ult is a good counter to any character with a pull really.

I can't tell you how many Gideon black-holes i've homerun'd away from my team.

Honestly, i've saved quite a lot of asses from getting destroyed by ults with Colossal Swing in general. It's such a versatile ability. Disruption, defense, damage, and pushing, all in one big blow.

I think it might be the best ult in the game, after GTFO of course because that shit is just mean.

I still think late game Steel ult takes the cake, there is nothing you can do to stop him from applying his kit, let's say he ults against a comp with 3 melees and 1 ADC and 1 caster, he catches all the melees with his ult, throws down his shield wall to separate and delay the ADC from melting him or his team mates and still gets to escape all the melees with his shield charge. I use the divine shield card on him so I don't have to care about getting CC'd and taking damage during that time either on top of the other EHP enhancement. Basically it is possible to avoid his ult on reaction with a mobility tool if you see him and watch him, but if Steel can hit the enemy team in the back then that option is out the window.

if you encounter a group with 1 adc and 1 caster or 2 adc's and the rest are 3 melees with 1 dedicated tank and 2 fighter/brawlers and you just make it to late game with card points fairly even then Steel will, with proper application of his kit win all team fights. You just have to have the standard 1 Adc, 1 caster, 1 support, 1 fighter + Steel comp.

Grux can and will get melted if he initiates with his pull and there is no proper follow-up, he will have to instantly charge back if his team fucks up and his health will already be too low by then to make a difference. Grux pulling is an invitation for Murdock or Grim to run up and pew pew him to kingdom come.

Riktor initiating is probably the hardest initiation to pull off, he has no mobility and if your team fucks up even in the slightest, then you are dead then and there without stab link or other blink tools unless you build him a face tank with no damage, which IMO is not the way to go, him being energy damage gives him the possibility to melt poor fools who got no energy armor.

Steel fucking up his initiation and his team fucking up after him still doesn't condemn him to death right then and there.

I gotta try Sevarog out though to see how he plays out in a big team fight. circling behind the enemy team to ult the ADC into your team is definitely something that can win the fight, if the enemy team turns around to melt you you can simply root the melees and phantom dash through them to put yourself back into position.

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

https://agora.gg/

Check out this site if you haven't, you can see everyones stats in there, as well as decks and Elo reached with specific decks. There is also a deck builder to share your decks with. However make sure the decks are relevant in the current meta and not too old before you copy them. Crit on melees is agreed to be useless, everyone decent builds armor so penetration is usually mandatory at least on physical damage heros. Some people are dropping crit entirely, even on carries, however I do still think you should have at least 12-15% to no more than 30%, (I use 21%-24%) crit on Murdock and Grim.exe and a card that gives the 50% dmg bonus on crits.

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Don't build crits on rangers, its just not worth it. Same principle applies as on melees, most people will build barrier and its better to have pen/attack/attack speed over crit.

I like this game a lot, but the online community is terrible. Each match I have a DC, AFK, a person who's dying a lot or a clueless teammate that doesn't stay in their lane. I've been playing since early access and the open beta brought in some really clueless players.

I played 3 matches last night, won my first going 19-4 as Grux. Doing a good job of ganking for my team.

Second one, the guy beat me to Grux; no big deal right? I'll play my second hero I like, Gideon. Sitting there I'm hoping he does well jungling and gets ganks and kills.

Nope! I went 33-3 as Gideon and had a 0-10 Murdock leave my team and we still lost with me doing 80% of the kills hoping the team would at least handle the objective because our Jungler was bad.

Third match, I have a Greystone leave after being 0-2.

Come on, this game isn't that hard to understand. At least watch a few videos on your hero and mechanics before playing.

I no longer play paragon. I live paragon. This game is addictive. I'm usually playing iggy or greystone. Tanky iggy is so cheap shit. Greystone's kit allow you to build attack on him.

Zoidberg747 said:

Don't build crits on rangers, its just not worth it. Same principle applies as on melees, most people will build barrier and its better to have pen/attack/attack speed over crit.

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Yeah I've been wondering what to do with my Murdock and Grim deck. Last game I played I hadn't gone for my 2nd Meltdown card that has my pen and I was hitting creeps for 221 on normal hit and crits were 449 or 459 if I remember correctly, the enemy Rampage had the usual 6 point tuned barrier with all minor barriers and a total of 132 energy armor, I am pretty sure he had no other energy armor, I decided to go up to him and shoot him a bit with my 16 pen and hit for less than half my dmg on creeps. I ditched my 10p magus' ward for 10p meltdown with 96 pen total and rest on damage and my damage on him went up to around 130 or 140+ range and my base dmg at that point on creeps was 200 per normal hit. Armor is so good right now unless you equip the new shredding cards or shitloads of pen.

On the other hand I am hesitant to drop crit altogether, even in that game I had a few people build no energy armor and I was able to melt them almost instantly, I am high silver league now, I expect people to build better when I get to gold league (if the Agora.gg league limits apply to internal matchmaking in the actual game).

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

Yeah I've been wondering what to do with my Murdock and Grim deck. Last game I played I hadn't gone for my 2nd Meltdown card that has my pen and I was hitting creeps for 221 on normal hit and crits were 449 or 459 if I remember correctly, the enemy Rampage had the usual 6 point tuned barrier with all minor barriers and a total of 132 energy armor, I am pretty sure he had no other energy armor, I decided to go up to him and shoot him a bit with my 16 pen and hit for less than half my dmg on creeps. I ditched my 10p magus' ward for 10p meltdown with 96 pen total and rest on damage and my damage on him went up to around 130 or 140+ range and my base dmg at that point on creeps was 200 per normal hit. Armor is so good right now unless you equip the new shredding cards or shitloads of pen.

On the other hand I am hesitant to drop crit altogether, even in that game I had a few people build no energy armor and I was able to melt them almost instantly, I am high silver league now, I expect people to build better when I get to gold league (if the Agora.gg league limits apply to internal matchmaking in the actual game).

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If you build attack/attack speed right you can melt people without crit. Crit is straight up not worth it on rangers(for reference, I mainly play rangers and managed to work my way up from bronze to gold in about a week or two, and one of the reasons was because I stopped building crit). Its better to go for attack/attack speed because you can consistently get more damage and don't have to rely on (lackluster) crits.

As for armor your best bet is to get some of the epic actives. I use firepiercer with my Murdock and Scourging Tails with my Grim. If you don't have those cards though Murdock's scattershot and ult both shred armor(which is why he's the best ranger in this meta imo). The way it works out right now pen is so bad that you're actually better off building attack/attack speed against people that put on lots of armor because pen is so weak(if they only build a little armor pen is ok though).

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

Ehrmahgewd you are on EU servers as well, we must bro-team. I'll be Rampage, you can be my bae #Kreygasm #Kappa

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Ye man im on eu servers, whats your psn?

1man3letters said:

Ye man im on eu servers, whats your psn?

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"Lastenmurskaajah" is my PSN, if your tag is different than here as well let me know who you are in the message section.

I am happy to add everyone else as well who are looking for mates to play with.

Zoidberg747 said:

If you build attack/attack speed right you can melt people without crit. Crit is straight up not worth it on rangers(for reference, I mainly play rangers and managed to work my way up from bronze to gold in about a week or two, and one of the reasons was because I stopped building crit). Its better to go for attack/attack speed because you can consistently get more damage and don't have to rely on (lackluster) crits.

As for armor your best bet is to get some of the epic actives. I use firepiercer with my Murdock and Scourging Tails with my Grim. If you don't have those cards though Murdock's scattershot and ult both shred armor(which is why he's the best ranger in this meta imo). The way it works out right now pen is so bad that you're actually better off building attack/attack speed against people that put on lots of armor because pen is so weak(if they only build a little armor pen is ok though).

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I got Scourging tails, but I don't recall having Firepiercer. What you are saying is true, I watched some streamer make a "MeltDoc", he didn't have firepiercer either though, I think he had around 170+ to anywhere around 210 penetration scattered across at least 3 Meltdowns for an optimal power curve and he was hitting a Sevarog who had either a 10p tuned barrier or Thorned Greenweave late game for 200+ dmg per hit, which is good but not really all that impressive considering how many points he sacrificed on penetration. But then again everyone was building both armor types, like I said I still get games with guys that go all out DPS with maybe an Amulet of The Veteran or only physical armor on Grux/Khaimera/Feng Mao as the only card for EHP and those guys can pack a punch even though I have a 10p tempered plate with all guards on my Murdock. Crits have saved me on numerous 1vs1 situations, but then again I haven't tried to build without crit and see how it goes with higher consistent dmg.

I just bought some new deck slots though so I might make whole new decks for Murdock and Grim... Could you maybe use the deck builder on Agora.gg and let me copy your decks for them?

I don't really like the armor meta.

I'd rather there had been no damage types and simply just +damage and +armor. I feel like being forced to dump points into two types of armor in most games feels limiting when it comes to deck building.

They put so much design into the damage types and such that it's an impossibility at this point, but I still don't quite like it.

I'm relatively new to this and MOBAs to a degree so I admit that I might be missing the importance of it.

The damage and armor types are there to further enforce the power curve balancing. Melees/junglers are more powerful early game, late game the balance of power shifts towards ADC's and casters being more important. Fighters are required to have at least the 6 point tuned barrier and tanks need more energy armor than that.

I can see games lasting even longer than they last now if there was only 1 damage type.

Besides the new armor shredding epic actives I think they need to introduce some type of "berserk mode" active cards that last for a duration, as in you take 33% more damage, but gain 33% more damage and attack speed, or you lose 50% of all your armor but ignore 50% of all enemy armor types. Or for example you gain increased movement speed but you start to gradually lose health during the active duration of the movement speed buff. This would encourage high risk/high reward style of play more and potentially cause team fights to end in total team wipes more often, deciding the game later on.

Loving kallari buffs. Have a 75% win rate w her ever since her buffs.

Wish agora would reset tho so my stats don't look so shitty lol

Or they simply need to get rid off travel mode entirely or at least nerf the travel mode speed and introduce some type of teleport system, right now it's too easy to rotate to defend/gank or escape.

EMPEROR PRYCE said:

Loving kallari buffs. Have a 75% win rate w her ever since her buffs.

Wish agora would reset tho so my stats don't look so shitty lol

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What else did she get besides the intellect affinity?

is there like a tutorial for this game? I don't want moba basics i got all that, i mean like, how the fuck this card system works and all that

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

What else did she get besides the intellect affinity?

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Increased damage all across the board. From basic attack to all her abilities.

This allows me to build health instead of going 100% glass cannon.

So much more survivability.

God Confirm said:

is there like a tutorial for this game? I don't want moba basics i got all that, i mean like, how the fuck this card system works and all that

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By the end of the game you have 60 card points, distributed across 6 cards. Cards that have a full upgrade bonuses are always worth more than than what they actually cost, as in 3 point cards have 4 points worth of stats, 2 point cards are worth 3 and 4 point cards are worth 5 points. This encourages you to fully upgrade them by slotting these cards with 3 upgrades.

There are cards that have unique passive bonuses and active skills with different costs, these cards don't have full upgrade bonuses (Except for the Barrier Of Will card) and they have less stats, however, they make up for the lack of stats with powerful situational bonuses that can sway fights in your favour when used at the correct time, however at this time you shouldn't concern yourself with these cards.

Cards can only be slotted with upgrades that give the same type of stat that the card has when initially equipping the card. You can have different cards cost different amount of card points, but all the cards and upgrades you equip must cost exactly 60 points across 6 cards for the deck to be optimal. All cards must have 3 upgrades slotted into them. Initially you may find that you don't have enough upgrades to make the kind of deck that you want and you also are lacking in cards, so I advise you to simply pick an intermediate pre-made deck and modify it as best you can. As you gain more cards, upgrades and experience with the game you may purchase card packs and you will find that you can make more specific decks for different characters with better power curves.

I dunno if that helped at all but you should search for some Youtube vids about this.

Had some more goes, playing grux usually. Still have rubbish cards for the most part, no upgrades, no pen rust fury card, bad ward and key.
My build atm is something like key, hpot, zap juice. Flashfire piston with full AS, Voidsteel dagger with pen+dam (not enough pierce card lol), Bloodsoaked armour with AS and armour, Tuned barrier with armour and hp, Thirstfang with drain and damage, then Fountain spike with mana so i can hang about longer late game or Windcarver with 3 major strike if i want that instead.

No idea what to do for build, i need to get more pen or pack crits to make a huge difference late game damage wise so i build both tank items to hang about longer, being a pain if i can.

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

I got Scourging tails, but I don't recall having Firepiercer. What you are saying is true, I watched some streamer make a "MeltDoc", he didn't have firepiercer either though, I think he had around 170+ to anywhere around 210 penetration scattered across at least 3 Meltdowns for an optimal power curve and he was hitting a Sevarog who had either a 10p tuned barrier or Thorned Greenweave late game for 200+ dmg per hit, which is good but not really all that impressive considering how many points he sacrificed on penetration. But then again everyone was building both armor types, like I said I still get games with guys that go all out DPS with maybe an Amulet of The Veteran or only physical armor on Grux/Khaimera/Feng Mao as the only card for EHP and those guys can pack a punch even though I have a 10p tempered plate with all guards on my Murdock. Crits have saved me on numerous 1vs1 situations, but then again I haven't tried to build without crit and see how it goes with higher consistent dmg.

I just bought some new deck slots though so I might make whole new decks for Murdock and Grim... Could you maybe use the deck builder on Agora.gg and let me copy your decks for them?

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I'll try but tbh I still change them around a lot. Plus I still don't have cards like madstone gem which most good Murdock's use.

Zoidberg747 said:

I'll try but tbh I still change them around a lot. Plus I still don't have cards like madstone gem which most good Murdock's use.

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I got 5 of those, but that Firepiercer eludes me. How much atk speed do you put on Murdock? I got +55 atk speed in total, as in either 12p blast harness or 10p madstone gem with all kinetics. I made a deck dropping crit and having the possibility to go up to 160 pen, but as soon as I tried that deck I got a game where THE ENTIRE ENEMY team was all dps, 3 guys had 3 spear of the rifthunters, I lost a 1vs1 vs a shitty Twinblast build who must have had like 40%+ crit . I think 2 of them had Amulet of the veteran and nobody had armor.

But anyway how does the Firepiercer sequence go? You pop it just before your first auto attack I assume, then cancel the recovery of the auto with buckshot to shred the remaining armor even more and then proceed to pew pew as long as it's active?

I feel out of all the shred cards, scourging tails is the worse.

EMPEROR PRYCE said:

I feel out of all the shred cards, scourging tails is the worse.

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Looking at my deck I got Scourging Tails and Scarab Claws mixed up lol. I actually could see both being useful though as scourging is a 3 point card and easy to fit into a build.

Smoke_Of_Finland said:

I got 5 of those, but that Firepiercer eludes me. How much atk speed do you put on Murdock? I got +55 atk speed in total, as in either 12p blast harness or 10p madstone gem with all kinetics. I made a deck dropping crit and having the possibility to go up to 160 pen, but as soon as I tried that deck I got a game where THE ENTIRE ENEMY team was all dps, 3 guys had 3 spear of the rifthunters, I lost a 1vs1 vs a shitty Twinblast build who must have had like 40%+ crit . I think 2 of them had Amulet of the veteran and nobody had armor.

But anyway how does the Firepiercer sequence go? You pop it just before your first auto attack I assume, then cancel the recovery of the auto with buckshot to shred the remaining armor even more and then proceed to pew pew as long as it's active?

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I'd have to look at stats but I build a 9pt Whirling Wand and a 12pt whirling wand. You don't want too much attack speed because it has diminishing returns.

As I said before don't build too much pen, because attack speed/attack end up better vs. a ton of armor. I can't remember the name but I have a card with 16pen and add one or two shocks and that's it(Magma-Lens maybe?). I'm not home so I can't check.

If the enemy team builds damage like that just build health/armor and make sure to stay with your team so you don't get shredded. The Firepiercer combo goes like you said.

Zoidberg747 said:

Looking at my deck I got Scourging Tails and Scarab Claws mixed up lol. I actually could see both being useful though as scourging is a 3 point card and easy to fit into a build.



I'd have to look at stats but I build a 9pt Whirling Wand and a 12pt whirling wand. You don't want too much attack speed because it has diminishing returns.

As I said before don't build too much pen, because attack speed/attack end up better vs. a ton of armor. I can't remember the name but I have a card with 16pen and add one or two shocks and that's it(Magma-Lens maybe?). I'm not home so I can't check.

If the enemy team builds damage like that just build health/armor and make sure to stay with your team so you don't get shredded. The Firepiercer combo goes like you said.

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Scourging is nice if you're already building pen.

Imo w rocket spike on Murdock no need for pen unless ur tryna chip down a narbash that built nothing but health and armor lol


I'll probably get on for a game or two today. If I do I'll send ya invite buddy. We haven't played in awhile.