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Match-Up Discussion - Bo' Rai Cho Drunk Man Bodies Jason? (Unstoppable/Relentless)

CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Hey guys, I was just thinking about Jason and who he possibly does a terrible job against (specifically his Unstoppable/Relentless variations) and Bo'Rai Cho came to mind. So I figured I would ask the Bo' Rai Cho mains, are you comfortable with this matchup? Do you think you win this one free? Personally, I feel Bo is favorable against the non-slasher variations for the same reason Grandmaster does well against him, along with some other caveats attached to the Bo' Rai Cho name. For one, he gets better ice clone for a bar in the form of Crop Duster. On top of that when he sits behind this gaseous cloud, he can then sumo stomp his way to victory. On top of that, when the Jason player finally tries to get in, they are met with a raw fart, Bo in this matchup can use normal fart as one of the best spacing tools in the game against Jason because he has no way to contest this stinky stinky man's full screen game. So what do you guys think? Is this a good matchup for you?

@PND OmegaK
@Percimon
@myri
@Name v.5.0
@ Everyone else
If you got tagged, it's because you have contributed a lot to the Bo' Rai Cho community, If you have contributed as much as these people I apologize that I missed you!
 
Gengar

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
During Jasons red screen you can push UU and then all 4 attack buttons to guarantee you get an unblockable stomp to break it. Works every time for Dragon fire and bartistu. Drunken master will drink alcohol sometimes.

this actually works for all unblockables on a DD input, such as Pumped up Jax (aiming the normal GP is a pain)

Tremor has other inputs on DD, such as the armor, ground burst, and stance switch. doesnt work as well for him.

Goros ground pound works for free.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Gengar said:
During Jasons red screen you can push UU and then all 4 attack buttons to guarantee you get an unblockable stomp to break it. Works every time for Dragon fire and bartistu. Drunken master will drink alcohol sometimes.
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That is something I did not know, one more thing to add to the list of the matchup tools
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
PND OmegaK said:
Bo can effectively play his fart/stomp game against Jason so it is possible he wins. I've never struggled against Jason but I can't really say I've played against any spectacular Jason players.
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Fair enough. It just seems like on paper the character has every way to make Jason play by his rules ya know?
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
It would help if you listed what variation of Bo you were talking about to lol
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I personally don't really like the Unstoppable Jason/Bartitsu Bo Rai Cho matchup, Jason has much better mobility and is much safer overall. Makes it hard for me to get much going (as Bartitsu I mean).
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Youphemism said:
I personally don't really like the Unstoppable Jason/Bartitsu Bo Rai Cho matchup, Jason has much better mobility and is much safer overall. Makes it hard for me to get much going (as Bartitsu I mean).
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Have you tried playing the lame game? Sumo stomps and fart zoning?
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I'm not a Bo Rai Cho mainer, but I'll tell you guys this about Relentless Jason. If you see him do the red screen, meaning that your key maps are messed up, then force your character to keep doing NJP/NJK. This will break the red screen spell. However, what if he does the perfect armor? Good luck.

I have played against him as GM Sub Zero and Alien Tarkatan. My friend who usually mains Sun God Kotal Khan, also, plays this Jason.

If you guys know anything punishable about this low kick and overhead slash of his, I'd appreciate it. I'm trying my ass to find a way to punish this vortex.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tanno said:
I'm not a Bo Rai Cho mainer, but I'll tell you guys this about Relentless Jason. If you see him do the red screen, meaning that your key maps are messed up, then force your character to keep doing NJP/NJK. This will break the red screen spell. However, what if he does the perfect armor? Good luck.

I have played against him as GM Sub Zero and Alien Tarkatan. My friend who usually mains Sun God Kotal Khan, also, plays this Jason.

If you guys know anything punishable about this low kick and overhead slash of his, I'd appreciate it. I'm trying my ass to find a way to punish this vortex.
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F42 is -10 on block and is punishable by a plethora of jabs. The problem is the pushback can make it real annoying to punish. A tip for when they armor up, they can't jump in that state so make sure to just jump around them like a maniac and avoid them, then they'll get stunned and you can combo them
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
And as far as in the corner 50/50's, they are 100% safe. Can't punish them, just have to guess or armor out.
 
Percimon

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
Talking about DM:
I didn't play against any good Relentless or Slasher Jason, so I can't say smth for sure about this MU.
But I played once against pretty nice Unstoppable (after latest patch). It's pretty close MU, cuz Jason can heal himself so Bo can't just lay on the ground and waiting for opponent's moves. Especially, if Jason has life lead. Plus, Jason has better mid attacks, tick throws and armor crush buff.
But it's very easy to punish his recovery frames with help of rolls or Zen; Jason doesn't have good jump in punches, so Bo controls air with help of df2 (0,1,2 level drunk); also Bo has decent d4 to control space between him and Jason. Fart traps are important in this MU too.
Thus, I think this MU is close to neutral for both of them.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Percimon said:
Talking about DM:
I didn't play against any good Relentless or Slasher Jason, so I can't say smth for sure about this MU.
But I played once against pretty nice Unstoppable (after latest patch). It's pretty close MU, cuz Jason can heal himself so Bo can't just lay on the ground and waiting for opponent's moves. Especially, if Jason has life lead. Plus, Jason has better mid attacks, tick throws and armor crush buff.
But it's very easy to punish his recovery frames with help of rolls or Zen; Jason doesn't have good jump in punches, so Bo controls air with help of df2 (0,1,2 level drunk); also Bo has decent d4 to control space between him and Jason. Fart traps are important in this MU too.
Thus, I think this MU is close to neutral for both of them.
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Thank you for the insight!
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
Can't say for sure because there isn't really a dedicated Jason main in Australia, but from what little I have played I think you're right about the fart cloud. I've never had much trouble with Jason either apart from slasher because of the zoning. I don't know that I would say he bodies Jason though, it's probably an easier matchup for relentless and unstoppable than it is fot something like killer leatherface to be honest. Relentless has his great comeback tools with his passive damage boost as his health goes down and unstoppable has his revival tool which is another great tool for disrupting Bo's set play.

It is probably one of Bo's better matchups but I wouldn't say he bodies Jason. Maybe 6-4 in Bo's favor? Jason is a really solid character right now.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
myri said:
Can't say for sure because there isn't really a dedicated Jason main in Australia, but from what little I have played I think you're right about the fart cloud. I've never had much trouble with Jason either apart from slasher because of the zoning. I don't know that I would say he bodies Jason though, it's probably an easier matchup for relentless and unstoppable than it is fot something like killer leatherface to be honest. Relentless has his great comeback tools with his passive damage boost as his health goes down and unstoppable has his revival tool which is another great tool for disrupting Bo's set play.

It is probably one of Bo's better matchups but I wouldn't say he bodies Jason. Maybe 6-4 in Bo's favor? Jason is a really solid character right now.
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That sounds about right
 
Daemantalo

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
As a Jason Main (Relentless) I could say without question or second thought that Bo does not counter Jason very well due to Bo's horrid mobility and I don't know if Bo can counter Jason's B1 button (This is speaking from DM and Dragon Breath, Bartitsu might actually be 5-5, but then again, his specials are very punishable)

The primary issue is that fart might be great when Bo has Jason in the corner, but fart I believe is only +1 on block? If Jason's reactions are fast enough, he can poke out of whatever Bo tries to do. I haven't seen many people stomp out of the red screen, which might actually be a game changer, but I feel that it's more difficult to do that in the heat of the fight, and if Jason reads you're going to stomp, he can simply jump it, hit you while you're in recovery frames, then pop you for a full combo after the JiP. Additionally, it's harder to get off the red screen than it is for damage buffs and what not, so I can imagine Unstoppable is even worse, despite not having teleport.

I feel if Bo can get in and mix, then yeah, Jason might be powerless if he doesn't know the match-up, mix-ups, or gaps to poke. In the midscreen game, Jason might just walk all over Bo because of setups. I thing that fart's active frames is like deceptively amazing. Just when you think the cloud has gone away, you poke out wrong, and you've been hit and Bo will have his way with you.

Two questions: Does Bo have true meterless vortexes? Is it possible to REACT with stomp after seeing Jason attempt to set-up? Reason being is I usually get away with full screen armor activation if both Bo and I are under 20% or so. I've never been hit out of it when playing the small amounts of Bo's.
 
myri

myri

Time Warrior
Daemantalo said:
As a Jason Main (Relentless) I could say without question or second thought that Bo does not counter Jason very well due to Bo's horrid mobility and I don't know if Bo can counter Jason's B1 button (This is speaking from DM and Dragon Breath, Bartitsu might actually be 5-5, but then again, his specials are very punishable)

The primary issue is that fart might be great when Bo has Jason in the corner, but fart I believe is only +1 on block? If Jason's reactions are fast enough, he can poke out of whatever Bo tries to do. I haven't seen many people stomp out of the red screen, which might actually be a game changer, but I feel that it's more difficult to do that in the heat of the fight, and if Jason reads you're going to stomp, he can simply jump it, hit you while you're in recovery frames, then pop you for a full combo after the JiP. Additionally, it's harder to get off the red screen than it is for damage buffs and what not, so I can imagine Unstoppable is even worse, despite not having teleport.

I feel if Bo can get in and mix, then yeah, Jason might be powerless if he doesn't know the match-up, mix-ups, or gaps to poke. In the midscreen game, Jason might just walk all over Bo because of setups. I thing that fart's active frames is like deceptively amazing. Just when you think the cloud has gone away, you poke out wrong, and you've been hit and Bo will have his way with you.

Two questions: Does Bo have true meterless vortexes? Is it possible to REACT with stomp after seeing Jason attempt to set-up? Reason being is I usually get away with full screen armor activation if both Bo and I are under 20% or so. I've never been hit out of it when playing the small amounts of Bo's.
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It's not really about using fart to end a block string, it's just using it as a neutral tool to catch jump ins or advancing strings which can make it scary to try and get in on Bo. People are very good at not reacting to stomp, like even really good players still get hit by it all the time. He has one true meterless vortex in the corner with bartitsu but every other option is metered. Sure, Jason can just do his b122 (I think) all day but he can get caught by the fart for a full combo, into the corner and the it's party time for Bo. It's all about that one touch death.
 
Daemantalo

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
myri said:
It's not really about using fart to end a block string, it's just using it as a neutral tool to catch jump ins or advancing strings which can make it scary to try and get in on Bo. People are very good at not reacting to stomp, like even really good players still get hit by it all the time. He has one true meterless vortex in the corner with bartitsu but every other option is metered. Sure, Jason can just do his b122 (I think) all day but he can get caught by the fart for a full combo, into the corner and the it's party time for Bo. It's all about that one touch death.
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I totally understand this rationale. I've been cornered by a Bartitsu mixing me all game, so it's a scary experience, but if someone knew how to block a little better than I have, I think a case could definitely be made that someone would be able to poke out of it or something. And yeah, I'd like to stay away from the copout of B122 all day errr day. I think the D4 really does wonders for Bartitsu along with his B1 strings. That type of reach is very plus match-up wise when fighting against Jason imo. Now I'm legit curious. Wanna see this matchup now lol
 
PND OmegaK

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
Dragon Breath needs 1 touch to kill and he doesn't even need meter anymore thanks to meaty farts (which can be up to +26 at least fyi). Even though Jason has good mids they dont completely suffocate Bo like mileena or Takeda, the fact he has to play up close is good news for Bo too.

I'd like to play the matchup more before I say anything definitive because theory fighting is a bad habit, but I can't see DB losing to any of Jason's variations currently.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
PND OmegaK said:
Dragon Breath needs 1 touch to kill and he doesn't even need meter anymore thanks to meaty farts (which can be up to +26 at least fyi). Even though Jason has good mids they dont completely suffocate Bo like mileena or Takeda, the fact he has to play up close is good news for Bo too.

I'd like to play the matchup more before I say anything definitive because theory fighting is a bad habit, but I can't see DB losing to any of Jason's variations currently.
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My thoughts exactly but as you said, theory fighting no no
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
CrazyFingers said:
Have you tried playing the lame game? Sumo stomps and fart zoning?
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Lol stomps are easy to jump or BF3 on reaction, I don't think it's possible to zone anyone with matchup knowledge of Bo with stomp really. Fart is more of a problem but Bo has to spend meter on that to really zone with it (unless it's on a read of a jump) which isn't great because Bartitsu needs meter for most of his combos.
 
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