Eddy Wang
Skarlet scientist
It seems this is a question you should honestly ask yourself. Because it looks like you haven't.i wonder if you guys have ever played any other fighting games.
It seems this is a question you should honestly ask yourself. Because it looks like you haven't.i wonder if you guys have ever played any other fighting games.
It seems this is a question you should honestly ask yourself. Because it looks like you haven't.
Hmm... one of these is not like the others lol
- Sonya (Demolitions)
- Alien (All Variations)
- Takeda (Not Ronin)
- Kano (Cutthroat)
- D'vorrah (Swarm Queen)
- Jason Vorheez (Unstoppable)
Well, you got this off your shoulder! lolHey guys, CrazyFingers here and today I'm here to just talk about a few specific things involving balance for fighting games and where MKXL should probably want to be after its final patch is said and done. So without further ado, the points I will be covering are these.
- When is a Top 5/10 list a list of characters that MUST be dealt with?
- What is the final goal for a competitive game's balance team?
- Finally, why "preemptive nerfing" is an unhealthy practice in a patch based fighting game.
No lol. SQ has a variation specific puddleThe Problem is if they nerf the puddle they also nerf venomous and BM which is stupid because the last thing these two characters need is to be toned down. But this has happened before *cough* cassie
And there is just no way sq can Break armor with it with the amount of recovery. As I said venomous and bm have the armor break setups, not sq
Because he works at NRS and his opinion holds weight and might actually make a differenceUhhh why tag 16 bit as if he made the game? We don't know all the details behind why the game is the way it is. As fun as it is to say paulos vision who really knows who's to blame.
I doubt he's going to make any real difference. None of these complaints are new, I'm sure NRS has heard them plenty of times. Any plans they have for the game have probably been finalized. It is what it is. Just have to wait and see.Because he works at NRS and his opinion holds weight and might actually make a difference
They'll probably nerf it universal though because the other puddles are +22 as wellNo lol. SQ has a variation specific puddle
I don't think that people understand that many times developers are nerfing tools, not tiers. They are nerfing specific tools or aspects of a character that cause that character to not be played how they wanted them to be played.This creates things like Cyber Sub Zero in his current state. NRS didn't give it more than a month before they nerfed the ever loving shit out of him and now, a lot of people call him bottom 5 in the game and for good reason. This was most definitely a form of Preemptive nerfing. Another perfect example of this is Leatherface, in fact, this is possibly the BIGGEST example of it. Upon release Leatherface had a few notable things in his arsenal. In Killer, he obtained unarmorable unblockable setups that were either backdash or eat it. This was strong, but by no means something that needed to be nerfed, and yet NRS was SO FUCKING SCARED of this possibly making everyone mad that they took it away in the blink of an eye.
He is a representative of the community and a valued employee. He helps with balancing. I agree that at this point it's probably already set whatever plans they have for mkxl but it's still worth hearing for future gamesI doubt he's going to make any real difference. None of these complaints are new, I'm sure NRS has heard them plenty of times. Any plans they have for the game have probably been finalized. It is what it is. Just have to wait and see.
100% agree and I've been saying this forever.What is "Preemptive Nerfing" and Why is it Unhealthy for the Game
So, usually around incoming patch time you will see countless threads crying for nerfs and buffs. But one thing that I'm sure we have seen is "Nerf this guy 'just in case' he's op after the current top tier are gone". I will preface this by informing you of my AGGRESSIVE hatred of this mentality of thinking. Why do I hate this mentality? I am so glad you asked, I love a good rant. The reason this line of thinking is Unhealthy is simple. We have no way of TRULY knowing the outcome of them at their current state being in a game where the original oppressive top tier does not exist. This creates things like Cyber Sub Zero in his current state. NRS didn't give it more than a month before they nerfed the ever loving shit out of him and now, a lot of people call him bottom 5 in the game and for good reason. This was most definitely a form of Preemptive nerfing. Another perfect example of this is Leatherface, in fact, this is possibly the BIGGEST example of it. Upon release Leatherface had a few notable things in his arsenal. In Killer, he obtained unarmorable unblockable setups that were either backdash or eat it. This was strong, but by no means something that needed to be nerfed, and yet NRS was SO FUCKING SCARED of this possibly making everyone mad that they took it away in the blink of an eye. The other thing they snatched from him were both in Butcher, his now worst variation. He had a true vortex by ending combos in S22, which forced the opponent to guess and he ALSO had the fastest command grab in the game in the form of his 6f DBF 1. However, they took away BOTH of these. And these nerfs weren't based off of any concrete data, it was all "Just in case they're op" nerfs. This form of thinking can ALSO be applied to buffs, which is fucking terrifying and has created things like Piercing Mileena and Takeda. Characters who people constantly called trash, low tier etc that got more buffs than some characters get nerfs and buffs combined. This form of thinking causes for flimsy design that just makes the entirety of your game a balancing nightmare.
The absolute truth, thank you juggs, spot on.And to be clear, this isn't really a blame game and hate speech on NRS. NRS complies with the wishes of the community. And the community cries loud and often because they know NRS will listen. It's a vicious cycle and ultimately the only side that can really change is NRS, because our community will always whine and complain, from the scrubs to the top players, it's in our nature.
Not to mention, this is a BIG reason our games die off so quickly. People who don't only play NRS games can't even keep up with all the balance changes, which are never "slight", they're always massive changes. These changes drastically change the game and match-ups, so you almost have to relearn the game each time the game is balance patched. Which the problem with that is, is that it happens every few months. NRS only players barely have the time to relearn the game every few months, people in other communities definitely don't and eventually drop the game.
Jump out and hit him, or hold the pressure.EX Kunai is not just a "50 50". You have only one option. Mash and move your ass out of there unless you want to try your luck on a one frame HTB into 36, or maybe eat some plus 32.
Anyways, this game sadly is broken on a fundamental level. Launching mixups that are safe, plus, or even unsafe it doesn't matter, half/ full screen mixups with no hurtbox completely oblliterating neutral, NJPS and NJKs with stupid range that can be made plus, double hitting armor moves, Plus gapless jailing pressure, safe armored launchers...
List goes on. This is the core of the game, its what its based on. And this upcoming patch is not fixing any of that. Unless this patch is like 15 Gigs and redoes the games meta from scratch, I'm afraid this game will remain an infestation of the list above.
New patch is going to nerf the top 5 to the ground so people will start complaining, the low tiers will get buffed, some more than needed and become insane and some of the rest top characters will start being exposed after downplayers saved them from the nerfs, and that'll be it.
But you know, still hoping
EX kunai into B2. Yeah try and hold that. He doesn't have to jump for it to be a HtBJump out and hit him, or hold the pressure.
EX kunai is a 50/50, nothing more.
BullshitJump out and hit him, or hold the pressure.
EX kunai is a 50/50, nothing more.
Lol what?EX kunai into B2. Yeah try and hold that. He doesn't have to jump for it to be a HtB
and try and jump out of b2s range after a hard knockdown, I dare you
There's technically no option that can't be covered with what he said as long as you read itLol what?
Takeda's EX kunai is a prime example of how desperately this community needs to lab more.