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Question Ed Boon asks: "WHO DO YOU THINK ARE THE TOP 5 MOST OP FIGHTERS IN MKXL?"

Who do you think are the 5 most "OP" fighters in MKXL?


  • Total voters
    422

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
The only thing that they need to change any takeda is to make ex kunai a mid. That gets rid of the bullshit safe 50/50 hard to blockable that also has good damage. I don't think they need to get rid of the +34 because of one thing, you only get that off the opponent blocks all three, do you know how often that happens? It never happens. It is more akin to around +8 or 9 when one or two kunai is blocked which is fine since he can't get any sort of 50/50 off of it when blocked but he can go for pressure
 

Nuovo_Cabjoy

G O R O B O Y S
I count roughly half the cast that has safe 50/50s.

EDIT:
Alien
Jason
Sonya
Takeda
Cassie
Jacqui
Kung Jin
Bo Rai Cho
Kano
Erron Black
Reptile
Ferra/Tor
D'Vorah
Raiden
Quan
Goro
Smoke
I'm gonna slap whatever goro player that would actually try to compete with an oh/low game. A lot of these safe 5050s have very different outcomes from one another too. Not all are safe if you're trying to combo, some are stage position specific, some require meter. Seems disingenuous putting them all under the same label.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
The balance I am talking about is balance between what is required to put a given tactic into play VS what is required to defeat that same tactic.

In this specific case for example:

The tactic: Zoning with Pretty Lady Chainsaws requires that the player knows how to do three special commands (Low, Straight, and air saw). This doesn't take much time to do at all. Maybe learn some kind of keep away normal to reset the situation as needed. This is also automatic wins against people who have not practiced against this specific technique and additional wins against people who do know what to do if they are not on point with it.

The technique required to defeat this tactic: Learning to dash block, neutral crouch and walk/run in. THEN additionally learning the mix ups and frame traps to keep on top of the opponent. This takes hours and still against a top notch zoner is very difficult to execute, even if you know what to do.

I'm not asking for a walk in the park. I am asking that something be done so that easy tactics don't require quite as much techinical defense. I want to consistently beat someone who has not worked as hard as I have. I think that's pretty reasonable.
You're full of shit.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
So I see a lot of talk about nerfing Kotal. While I can agree that the blockstun on some of his moves is a bit much, what else could they possibly nerf and not severely hamper his gameplay?

Sword mix ups already have gaps and are unsafe (some of them).

Grabs can be backdashed, armored, or jumped out of.

Totems are great, but BG lacks a good Reversal or wake up as an intentional weakness of the character.

Even his standard pressure of 114 air grab and b122 mb sun disc has a gap.

What needs to be nerfed that would make him broken if left alone should the top 5 be nerfed? I've always felt like he was pretty well-rounded.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
So I see a lot of talk about nerfing Kotal. While I can agree that the blockstun on some of his moves is a bit much, what else could they possibly nerf and not severely hamper his gameplay?

Sword mix ups already have gaps and are unsafe (some of them).

Grabs can be backdashed, armored, or jumped out of.

Totems are great, but BG lacks a good Reversal or wake up as an intentional weakness of the character.

Even his standard pressure of 114 air grab and b122 mb sun disc has a gap.

What needs to be nerfed that would make him broken if left alone should the top 5 be nerfed? I've always felt like he was pretty well-rounded.
He is. People need to stop being butt hurt about a well rounded and balanced character. They keep saying it would be "preemptive" in a way, to keep another top 5 fiasco from happening but there are a few things to take into account. One, the amount of characters that actually check kotal Kahn. In every variation, there are several characters that will put the hurt on this man, a couple even do that to ALL variations (See Lackey F/T and Sub Zero) and when I say put the hurt, I mean these matchups feel TERRIBLE. Lackey is D1ing, BF3ing out of your pressure and you can't even combo the fool, it's bad. Sub Zero...i refer you to how ice klone works and how kotal is played. Secondly, "preemptive nerfs" are bullshit. You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, stop a fighting game or any kind of competitive game for that matter, from having the best of the best. It will not happen ever. There will always be the strongest and the weakest. The job of a fighting game developer is not to eradicate top 5 and make every single character as good as each other, cannot and will not happen in a million years. Their job is to close the gap between Top 5 and Bottom 5. Always has and always will determine how well a fighting game is balance. You want the majority of characters in A, with a few in S and a few in B, with the gap between those characters being as minimal as you can make it within your game. Are the gaps big sometimes? Absolutely, look at Injustice, game had the godliest of god tiers. But have game achieved the closest thing to 100% balanced? Absolutely. Soul Calibur 2. I will preach this to the very day I die, that game was a near perfectly balance fighter. The top tier exist? Absolutely, but every single other character could compete at the highest level...except spawn, rip him. But the point is, stop trying be clever and "nerf before they get out of hand" it wont solve anything because the top 5 will exist, we just don't want them to be as oppressive as our current top 5...rant over.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
He is. People need to stop being butt hurt about a well rounded and balanced character. They keep saying it would be "preemptive" in a way, to keep another top 5 fiasco from happening but there are a few things to take into account. One, the amount of characters that actually check kotal Kahn. In every variation, there are several characters that will put the hurt on this man, a couple even do that to ALL variations (See Lackey F/T and Sub Zero) and when I say put the hurt, I mean these matchups feel TERRIBLE. Lackey is D1ing, BF3ing out of your pressure and you can't even combo the fool, it's bad. Sub Zero...i refer you to how ice klone works and how kotal is played. Secondly, "preemptive nerfs" are bullshit. You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, stop a fighting game or any kind of competitive game foe that matter, from having the best of the best. It will not happen ever. There will always be the strongest and the weakest. The job of a fighting game developer is not to eradicate top 5 and make every single character as good as each other, cannot and will not happen in a million years. Their job is to close the gap between Top 5 and Bottom 5. Always has and always will determine how well a fighting game is balance. You want the majority of characters in A, with a few in S and a few in B, with the gap between those characters being as minimal as you can make it within your game. Are the gaps big sometimes? Absolutely, look at Injustice, game had the godliest of god tiers. But have game achieved the closest thing to 100% balanced? Absolutely. Soul Calibur 2. I will preach this to the very day I die, that game was a near perfectly balance fighter. The top tier exist? Absolutely, but every single other character could compete at the highest level...except spawn, rip him. But the point is, stop trying be clever and "nerf before they get out of hand" it wont solve anything because the top 5 will exist, we just don't want them to be as oppressive as our current top 5...rant over.
The only thing I'd like to see change is reduced blockstun on stuff like OH Sword. Other than that, people bitching about Kotal need to get over it.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
The only thing I'd like to see change is reduced blockstun on stuff like OH Sword. Other than that, people bitching about Kotal need to get over it.
And even then would you be completely and utterly destroyed if that change didn't go through? I certainly hope not
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I main a character that Kotal can go ham on, and I don't think he needs nerfs. People just need to grind the mu.
When I was trying to find a secondary, I was using Summoner, and got put in the corner by War God Kotal and dropped Quan for Alien instantly.

If Kotal was about as good as it gets, the game would force shit players like me to learn the matchup instead of herp derping it up with Tarkatan Alien(until Tuesday!?!?)
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
When I was trying to find a secondary, I was using Summoner, and got put in the corner by War God Kotal and dropped Quan for Alien instantly.

If Kotal was about as good as it gets, the game would force shit players like me to learn the matchup instead of herp derping it up with Tarkatan Alien(until Tuesday!?!?)
Also, as a Grandmaster player, I think you'd be more excited than the Kotal players if he's number 1 ;)
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Oh god I just realized I'm going to have to sit down and learn the GM matchup with at least one of my mains...im scared.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
I'm gonna slap whatever goro player that would actually try to compete with an oh/low game. A lot of these safe 5050s have very different outcomes from one another too. Not all are safe if you're trying to combo, some are stage position specific, some require meter. Seems disingenuous putting them all under the same label.
I agree. It was merely a simple list (because the previous poster said 90% of the cast), not to call all of them equivalent.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
He is. People need to stop being butt hurt about a well rounded and balanced character. They keep saying it would be "preemptive" in a way, to keep another top 5 fiasco from happening but there are a few things to take into account. One, the amount of characters that actually check kotal Kahn. In every variation, there are several characters that will put the hurt on this man, a couple even do that to ALL variations (See Lackey F/T and Sub Zero) and when I say put the hurt, I mean these matchups feel TERRIBLE. Lackey is D1ing, BF3ing out of your pressure and you can't even combo the fool, it's bad. Sub Zero...i refer you to how ice klone works and how kotal is played. Secondly, "preemptive nerfs" are bullshit. You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, stop a fighting game or any kind of competitive game for that matter, from having the best of the best. It will not happen ever. There will always be the strongest and the weakest. The job of a fighting game developer is not to eradicate top 5 and make every single character as good as each other, cannot and will not happen in a million years. Their job is to close the gap between Top 5 and Bottom 5. Always has and always will determine how well a fighting game is balance. You want the majority of characters in A, with a few in S and a few in B, with the gap between those characters being as minimal as you can make it within your game. Are the gaps big sometimes? Absolutely, look at Injustice, game had the godliest of god tiers. But have game achieved the closest thing to 100% balanced? Absolutely. Soul Calibur 2. I will preach this to the very day I die, that game was a near perfectly balance fighter. The top tier exist? Absolutely, but every single other character could compete at the highest level...except spawn, rip him. But the point is, stop trying be clever and "nerf before they get out of hand" it wont solve anything because the top 5 will exist, we just don't want them to be as oppressive as our current top 5...rant over.
Can you turn this quote into a separate thread? God like.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Tarkatan Alien, Piercing Mileena and Mystic Ermac all beat War God 7-3 atm.

I'll argue about this. Lets go.

They all can comfortably punish everything that he can do after B1, even a B122 stagger. All of them play the neutral vs him pretty well too. War God probably goes even from mid range, loses everywhere else, and has some of the worst risk/reward in the game, in these match ups.

War God and Kotal in general have other difficult match ups. Reptile and Sub Zero come to mind. People are mentioning Ferra/Torr. I don't know if I agree with that, but I haven't played that match up like that.

I feel like he'll be in the 5-9 range if the top 3-4 get nerfed. Tekken Master avoiding almost all matches that aren't winning or even does not indicate anything.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Tarkatan Alien, Piercing Mileena and Mystic Ermac all beat War God 7-3 atm.

I'll argue about this. Lets go.

They all can comfortably punish everything that he can do after B1, even a B122 stagger. All of them play the neutral vs him pretty well too. War God probably goes even from mid range, loses everywhere else, and has some of the worst risk/reward in the game, in these match ups.

War God and Kotal in general have other difficult match ups. Reptile and Sub Zero come to mind. People are mentioning Ferra/Torr. I don't know if I agree with that, but I haven't played that match up like that.

I feel like he'll be in the 5-9 range if the top 3-4 get nerfed. Tekken Master avoiding almost all matches that aren't winning or even does not indicate anything.
I think the F/T mu is a little difficult but I also don't have TOO MUCH F/T mu experience so maybe I just need to play it more. I have a question. Are you saying Tekken Master is avoiding the losing mu's? Didn't quite get that last statement lol
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tarkatan Alien, Piercing Mileena and Mystic Ermac all beat War God 7-3 atm.

I'll argue about this. Lets go.

They all can comfortably punish everything that he can do after B1, even a B122 stagger. All of them play the neutral vs him pretty well too. War God probably goes even from mid range, loses everywhere else, and has some of the worst risk/reward in the game, in these match ups.

War God and Kotal in general have other difficult match ups. Reptile and Sub Zero come to mind. People are mentioning Ferra/Torr. I don't know if I agree with that, but I haven't played that match up like that.

I feel like he'll be in the 5-9 range if the top 3-4 get nerfed. Tekken Master avoiding almost all matches that aren't winning or even does not indicate anything.
I completely agree with all of this. He would be AT LEAST top 10-8 if the top tier get hit hard enough but like those characters you mention all do preeeeetty well. Also on the F/T matchup, go to the F/T threads and look for @Cooljaxx 's thread on Lackey vs Kotal. It's some really good stuff...well not if you play Kotal...it's feelsbadman as a Kotal main.