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General/Other - Cybernetic Kano buffs

thlityoursloat

kick kick
B1, a 9f advancing mid with a disjointed hit box that can lead into a tick throw and can be meter burned to both break armour and connect on hit. B13 is -2 and can be cancelled into DF1 and be -4. B1 leads into plenty of mind games and is a great normal it self. But it needs buffs? Cool.
It has short range and is punishable on block. Kano in Cyber and Commando live and die by their ability to control the neutral but their neutral tools are too honest for this game.
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Yes I do. I agree with the rest of your post.
But do you agree that if Kano waits too long after jumping, air ball can be reacted to?
dude, stop.

if some dumbass scrub jumps from full screen and does an Air Kano ball just for the sake of it and not to whiff punish something, sure, i can block it, not because I'm reacting to it, but because im already waiting for it.

I'm sure no high level Kano would ever use a raw air ball without thought, and no, you're not reacting to an IAKB that has 2f start up and it's an OH.

these "you can react to X" needs to be addressed quickly. I'm pretty sick of it.
 

ando1184

Noob
B1, a 9f advancing mid with a disjointed hit box that can lead into a tick throw and can be meter burned to both break armour and connect on hit. B13 is -2 and can be cancelled into DF1 and be -4. B1 leads into plenty of mind games and is a great normal it self. But it needs buffs? Cool.
The only real issue with both b1 and the 2nd hit of b13 is that they can be low profiles easily at specific ranges. They function more like high attacks than mids when trying to use them at max range. And in regards to your command throws off of b1 comment, they sometimes still randomly whiff, even when mb's if the opponent is doing something. It's weird, but it happens :(
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
You do understand that can be blocked on reaction does not equate to always blocked on reaction right? If Kano is not near instant with his input, Air Kano Ball is react-able.

Even the great Sonic Fox is not 100% reliable with instant air special moves. Watch his footage using instant air gun-shots; he whiffs or is late with the input on a regular basis. The difference is; if Cassy whiffs, she is full-screen and unlikely to be punished, if she is late, she still fires shots and is unlikely to be punished. Air Kano Ball on the other hand is punished on whiff and punished if late because he is at point blank range at minus 46 frames.
Instant air ball if executed properly is around 9 frames. Even if you mess up the input and do it a few frames slower than possible there's still no way you would have enough time to distinguish what the Kano player was going for.

Ultimately it functions the same way as Liu Kang's overhead, use it sparingly when you've gathered enough evidence over the course of the game to know that your opponent isn't budging from crouch block.
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
The only real issue with both b1 and the 2nd hit of b13 is that they can be low profiles easily at specific ranges. They function more like high attacks than mids when trying to use them at max range. And in regards to your command throws off of b1 comment, they sometimes still randomly whiff, even when mb's if the opponent is doing something. It's weird, but it happens :(
I get they're inconsistent at times (the inconsistency is yet to affect me) but his B1 is still a great tool and leads into dirty mind games.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
I get they're inconsistent at times (the inconsistency is yet to affect me) but his B1 is still a great tool and leads into dirty mind games.
If you read the OP, then you would've read the part where I admit B1 was a great mid, and that the only reason I think it needs buffs is because there are other 9f mids that are just better. I shouldn't have to explain why Jason's b3 and post b3 mind-game is better, ditto for Kotal.
 

Solomon Gorondy

Should Goro be top 5?
Instant air ball if executed properly is around 9 frames. Even if you mess up the input and do it a few frames slower than possible there's still no way you would have enough time to distinguish what the Kano player was going for.

Ultimately it functions the same way as Liu Kang's overhead, use it sparingly when you've gathered enough evidence over the course of the game to know that your opponent isn't budging from crouch block.
Huh... 9 frames eh? At 60 frames per second that 0.15 seconds. Add on the slight delay of 3 frames and we're at 0.2 seconds. Now lets google the fastest human reaction speed shall we... https://www.google.ca/#q=fastest+human+reaction+time
Huh it's 0.1 seconds? So given that you get signaled to block high when Kano's feet leave the ground, I'd agree with your post but much more than 3 frames of delay and you can theoretically get bopped.
 
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llabslb

R1D1_998
Huh... 9 frames eh? At 60 frames per second that 0.15 seconds. Add on the slight delay of 3 frames and wer'e at 0.2 seconds. Now lets google the fastest human reaction speed shall we... https://www.google.ca/#q=fastest+human+reaction+time
Huh it's 0.1 seconds? So given that you get signaled to block high when Kano's feet leave the ground, I'd agree with your post but much more than 3 frames of delay and you can theoretically get bopped.
Fuck off
 

MK_Al

Noob
Because you're engaging in high level discussion about character balance and changes needed and you are unaware that normals are not universal across variations. It's an epidemic in this community that many of the people with the loudest voices and staunchest opinions about balance and fairness within the game don't even have a basic level of understanding about how the game works.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you or anyone that fails to notice such a basic aspect of the game should be clamoring for one change or another.

And of course it's relevant!! This is a thread about how cybernetic needs changes made to the frame data of his b1, and a crux of your argument is that such a change would inadvertently buff a really strong character in cutthroat. They don't share that move, so your premise is based on a lack of information, which basically to be blunt, means that your opinion is frankly not worth much.

I'm not saying you're bad, not a nice guy, shouldn't have any opinions or anything, but I see it daily that people speak so confidently about the way things SHOULD be, yet they aren't even aware of things actually ARE.
You know, I kind of understand what you are talking about. However, implying that I don't understand the game kind of made my day; but that would be a pointless discussion so I won't get any more into this.
I still don't agree to the points made and I wonder how an 8f safe mid that beats pokes and leads into very good dmg is "fair", and I still don't see the point in the rest of the propsed changes.
Might be we have a different approach; I'd rather tone every character down to A tier and get rid of "no risk high reward" tools, instead of asking how A tier chars could be buffed to compete withthe top 3.

And again; i'm not ranting and I respect different opinions for it's not up to us how the next patch will look like. If the devs read the OP and feel like it's a good idea they will use it despite "MK_ALs" doubts.

Anyways, have a nice day
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Huh... 9 frames eh? At 60 frames per second that 0.15 seconds. Add on the slight delay of 3 frames and we're at 0.2 seconds. Now lets google the fastest human reaction speed shall we... https://www.google.ca/#q=fastest+human+reaction+time
Huh it's 0.1 seconds? So given that you get signaled to block high when Kano's feet leave the ground, I'd agree with your post but much more than 3 frames of delay and you can theoretically get bopped.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
I can agree with b1 not being low profilable and a little more damage for b1 and cyber's knives. That would improve his footsies and damage quite a bit, and wouldn't be too crazy of a change.
8 frame mid is unnecessary, especially with a fix to the hitbox. Who needs that?
B1 becoming safer is also unrealistic, you're either gonna have to make the command grab a lot slower so it still tick throws or tweak the hell out of b13 to make it work.
There's no reason to make command grab safer on whiff. It's meant to be highly unsafe, not everyone can be jason.
Having a fast, mid projectile that's completely safe at point blank was blatantly overpowered, they nerfed that for a reason.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Revert all B1 changes to pre-XL and increase the startup of one of the command grabs in Commando to 17 frames.
That's a damn good idea. Forgot he had 2 command grabs. I'd make the side switching grab the slow one so his corner game doesn't get too disgusting.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
I'll say a new low string would be nice. Like a 2, 3 string with the 3 animation off of f33 so it hits low but is a knockdown.

Standing laser could start at 10f or 8 since up laser is 6f but that would probably be too much or overkill.

Knifes are ok.

B1 is fine. No need to b1 across the screen like before and it's still good to tick throw with but it was a really great AA tool. It kinda still is.

Otherwise he's ok.
 
Proposed changes for cyber:
-B1 is now -5
-32 leaves opponent standing on hit like commando's does
- Either: a)2f4 last hit overhead b) 2f4 is +4 on block c) cyber gains 22 string from commando
- Knives deal 6% damage on hit, 1.5% on block

I don't think any of these changes are a stretch. The 2f4 changes are more quality of life than anything and first hit is a high.

Some BOLD wishes: jump ins have less active frames and smaller hitboxes so i can massacre fools who used to jump fo free.

Kano adopts aliens tail flip as a special for a round when he punishes flip with upball. Every time kano armors prior to kotals paddle he adopts all paddle specials and mr. Potato's eyewear/mustache. That way cyber can be a potato too.
 

Tweedy

Noob
[QUOTE="MK_Al, post: 2161093, member: 8497"]TBH, of all characters in the rooster kano is one of the last on who needs some extra help. The base character is really good and Cybernetic is a very good variation.
b1 is already a very good normal; and it really doesn't mean anything if there are a handfull of other pokes that are better, because it's about the overall character design. Not to mention that this would also mean a buff for Cutthroat (I am not aware that properties of normals change from variation to variation).
The concept of "true mids" with the property of "can not be low profiled" does simply not exist in this game, so the move "works as intended" (and imo it would look stupid if the head high b1 would hit a d4).
As for the power slam recovery I don't really know why say -30 would be much better. I think it's ok for command throws to be full combo punishable on whiff, and a good player will full combo punish it either way.
I also don't understand the idea of making knife toss -7. It is obviously not intended to be used up close on block; at the same time kano has already good and safe strings.
I think I wouldn't care about Cypernetics db1 being a mid though if it really helps.[/QUOTE]

 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
Remember that part when the Kano community wanted B1 to tick into command grabs in Commando? Yeah, that's why they had to modify B1 as much as they did.
Why did they need to change it to-8 so it can be a tick throwed? Coz kotals b1 is -3 and it's tickthrow. Rly I want to no coz i have no idea
 
Kano players be like. But, but, muh tick throws, NRS gibs muh dat.:oops:
NRS comply.:D
But, but NRS. Why did you make it punishable?, that's not fair.:(
NRS, will be like: lalalalala, I can't hear you. I already gave you what you wanted, so... shut up.:mad:
 

oaoo94

Owner of HAZARDOUS Gaming
Revert all B1 changes to pre-XL and increase the startup of one of the command grabs in Commando to 17 frames.

That's the only thing Cyber really NEEDS per se.


Remember that part when the Kano community wanted B1 to tick into command grabs in Commando? Yeah, that's why they had to modify B1 as much as they did.

That said, read above for solution.



Kotal Kahn's B1 is 9 Frames, -2 and his Sun God Choke is 14 Frames....


Give Kano back his B1 god damn