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Match-up Discussion - Ruthless Ruthless Living MU Chart

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Since we have no real matchup chart for either of the variations i thought it would be time to start one.

the numbers I wrote down come from MY experience and it's an OPEN discussion so if you disagree with any of my numbers feel free to give me feedback so we can discuss the match up, I'm willing to change any matchup number if you make valid points.

Of course I don't have experience with every mu in the game so please if you don't play ruthless but have experience playing against them share it with us so we can make this as accurate as possible.
when there is a "?" behind a mu I played this matchup a bit but not enough to ensure that these are the right numbers.

I also got lazy after the erron black mu's to write down what I think about them but they're coming for the missing characters. also if you have experience against characters with a missing spot in the list I'm probably just going to copy&paste your text about it for the mu information.

so here it is, feel free to discuss:

Matchups

Alien:

-Tarkatan: 4-6
-acidic: 4-6?
-Konjurer: -
Tarkatan: at first I thought this mu was 5-5 but after oomoba listed some good points I can see this mu loosing for ruthless. The only space where we have kind of advantage is fullscreen. otherwise aliens reach makes the neutral difficult for us, same goes for close range. when we pressure him we have to watch out for his 3 hitting armored launcher. while we can absorb his 50/50 he can still do that or his rekkas to blow our pressure up. though if ruthless is already level 1 png tarkatan is pretty fucked since you can blow up pretty much all his reversal options.

Acidic: Haven't played this MU too much but in my eyes it's a loosing matchup on paper. fullscreen is hard to deal with alien since we can't absorb his acid zoning so we need to get in somehow. acidics neutral is a problem for us as well. in the corner we can't armor after aliens restand because we don't have ferra so we need to respect the followup. on the other side acidic doesn't have access to rekkas and the 3 hitting armored launcher so when we manage to get in acidic is done.

Konjurer: -

Jason:

-unstoppable: -
-Slasher: -
-relentless: -
unstoppable: -

slasher: -

relentless: -
Kung lao:

-Hat Trick: 5-5 / 6-4
-tempest: 6-4
-buzz saw: 5-5 / 6-4
Hat trick: all of kung laos share one thing that is hard to handle and that is his annoying air game. also hat trick and buzz saw have access to a different version of ex spin which hits 3 times so we can't braindead pressure him to death. this said these are probably hat tricks only advantages in this mu.

tempest: tempest doesn't have 3 hitting ex spin which means in the corner tempest doesn't have a chance. the only problem is his ex spin is extremely fast so if you want to stuff it with png either you need to be really fast after command grab or you end your combos with 112 to have more advantage.

buzz saw: same thing as with hat trick but buzz saw can't even utilise his low hat in this mu as much as usual. On read you can ex low toss for 30% damage from fullscreen and in 3/4 range I don't even think you can react to low toss fast enough after low hat.
Jax:

wrestler: -
heavy weapons: -
pumped up: -
-
sonya:

special forces: -
covert ops: -
demolition: 4-6
special forces: -

covert ops: -

demolition: her grenades are so annoying to deal with especially since we can't absorb them for whatever reason. beside that her neutral is better than ours, her air game is better than ours and it's really hard to gain momentum against her.
kenshi:

kenjutsu: -
balanced: -
possessed: -
-

kitana:

mournful: 5-5 / 4-6 (slightly disadvantage)
royal storm: 5-5 / 6-4
assassin: -
mournful: while royal storm und assassin suffer from ferra torr's counter zoning, mounrful doesn't have to deal with that. she can just backjump and zone and avoid our tosses so you need to be patient dash forward and block the glaves. mournful still has the same problems as her other variations up close against ruthless so when you're in you'll proably win.

royal storm: kitana can be annoying fullscreen. we can asborb her fans but there is a good chance she hits us with one of them before. but it's not that bad you just have to work your way up to her and be patient, use oh toss and use the hit advantage to run up to her. if you don't have ferra dash and duck until she's back and DON'T JUMP AGAINST HER!

assassin: -
scorpion:

inferno: -
ninjutsu: -
hellfire: -
-
sub-zero:

grandmaster: 6-4
cryomancer: -
unbreakable: 7-3
grandmaster: ferra doesn't have a hurtbox so things like the tosses, b2, 4 2+4, b4, njp all go through the clone. if he tries to fullscreen grandmaster you don't throw ferra when you didn't read the clone. wait until he tries to throw it, to ice ball you or come closer to you so you don't have to deal with fullscreen chip, when you negate his option to make his clone work he needs to get closer to you. although this sounds great sub still can freely jump at us because his jump in punch is impossible for is to anti air unless he doesn't time it right but I wouldn't bet on that. corner is also an ugly place to be against grandmaster but if he doesn't 50/50 you directly after clone make us of the glory njp.

cryomancer: -

unbreakable: I don't see unbreakable winning this mu without luck. he can't do anything against our pressure and fullscreen game. he can't wakeup against us and we can control the neutral good enough to make it really hard for him to come in.
mileena:

ravenous: -
piercing: 4-6 / 3-7 (probably 3-7)
etheral: -
Ravenous: -

piercing: b12 controls the neutral better than we do. roll low profiles our main pressure tool b1 which is a mid (thanks nrs). when we png pressure we're actually in a disavdantage because ex roll is multi hitting and it is freaking hard to block in time before her overhead and as said before roll low profiles b1 if we wan't to follow up with that (don't do that in this mu seriously) so we can't maintain pressure against her. her fullscreen game is also way better than ours and she can zone us for days.

etheral: -
takeda:

ronin: 4-6
shirai ryu: 4-6 / 3-7
lasher: 4-6 / 3-7
ronin: ronin can annoy us in the neutral with blade drop an call. ronins b1 stagger outclasses us and he controls the air really well, though you can anti air his tornado strike on read with oh toss. when you pressure ronin you have to watch out for his double shirai ryu kan since it hits two times and after b121pngc you can't bait it so I suggest to make more use of b12pngc in this mu since you can easier cancel into block or actually absorb the first hit and block the second to full combo punish. In the corner you CAN'T safe png after command grab to stuff his armor so end your combos in 112 and png after that or bait his wakeup.

shirai ryu: it's really hard to gain momentum in this mu. shirai ryu doesn't really have to get close to beat us and we can't reach him with our normals without being full combo punished for trying. he controls air and ground better than us but at least we don't have to fear his wakeups and reversals that much when we get the chance to pressure him.

lasher: same with shirai ryu but I think it's even worse. there is no need for lasher to come close even when we're cornered he can 50/50 while being out of our wakeup range. getting in against takeda is hard enough but lasher also has his jbp, his d+f1 which is -19 on block but if he is at max range we can't punish any of his unsafe moves.
cassie cage:

spec ops: 5-5
hollywood: 4-6
brawler: 5-5 / 6-4
spec ops: cassie in general is a really good neutral character. watch out for her b1 since she can avoid our b12 pressure easier due to her good walk speed and punish us for it. good thing is spec ops midscreen damage is ass and she has nothing garantueed but a good spec ops player knows your options after her setups so try not to fall in a pattern. when she does b12,close rocket as an ender you can wether tech roll or delay or straight wakeup. I'd suggest go for tech roll as long as she tries to armor break you and then go for wakeups. ferra tosses aren't fast enough to hit cassie during her recovery of the rockets so that they disapear but at least you can hit her on reaction so she can't safely followup with anything after you blocked the rocket. she's not the best at the keepaway game but you still have to be careful because of her b1 and b2. her defense is really weak luckily. on the other side when she corners us we are done if she does one right read on our wakeup.

hollywood: this mu is worse than the spec ops mu for sure. if the hollywood player can do iag's perfect she has a decent way to keep us out. the shots are WAY faster than her normal ground shot so you have to carefuly netraul duck and toss inbetween the recovery and startup of her next shot to get a hit on her. she can make her 50/50's safe, armor break us with f44. in this MU when you pressure cassie try to not to cancel on block into something as much as possible. her ex nutpunch will absorb the hit and the we loose all our advantage. though you can absorb the first hit with png and backdash between the first and second hit so cassie is jailed into her recovery and can be full combo punished.

brawler: luckily brawler doesn't have any full screen presence. though she hits like a truck I don't think she does too well in this mu. her defense options can be shut down by png and her only advantage is that she plays the neutral better than we do.
jacqui:

high tech: -
shotgun: -
full auto: -
-

kung jin:

shaolin: -
ancestral: -
bojutsu: -
-
tanya:

pyromancer: -
kobu jutsu: -
dragon naginata: -
-
bo rai cho:

bartitsu: -
dragon breath: -
drunken master: -
-
leatherface:

pretty lady: -
killer: -
butcher: -
-
predator:

HQT: 5-5
warrior: -
hunter: 5-5 / 6-4
HQT: this MU is hard to judge. predator is the second best zoner in the game and ruthless definitely struggles against him from half of the screen. if predator corners you his pressure is INSANE, BUT if you read his cancel and he doesn't cancel into s2 his follow up is a high und you can d3 out of it or armor through it. predator probably has one of the worst defensive options in the game, he has absolutely no chance when we corner him. he can't wake up, he can't reversal and only gets out if he reads that you won't go for b12 otherwise his armor will be broke.

warrior: -

hunter: hunter shares the same defensive problems as hqt but in addition that he can't do anything against us from any range. his disk doesn't help him in the MU since we can easily hit him with tosses and we don't need to jump either way. however he has some really nasty pressure with his trap
shinnok:

necromancer: -
imposter: 3-7
bone shaper: 4-6
necromancer: -

imposter: ugh it's this mu, definitely the worst MU ruthless has. getting in is almost impossible due to hellsparks and his teleport. when he teleports we can backdash so we can at least avoid is njk, however it puts us in a bad spot because shinnok can now hellspark again. if he manages to hit us he gets 19% additional damage to the combo he did which is stupid. My suggestion for this mu is to not use ferra torr there is just no way to win without plenty of luck.

boneshaper: not as bad is imposter but not great though. the hellsparks problem still exists and his blast is and unblockable ground thingy are great at fullscreen against us. when he restands us we don't have access to ferra so we have to backdash which is the same scenario as in imposter.
kano:

commando: -
cutthroat: -
cybernetic: -
-
johnny cage:

a-list: 5-5
fisticuff: -
stunt double: 5-5
a-list: a-lists zoning is completly outperformed by our counter zoning, however his neutral game is really good with d4 and f3. as you all know his pressure is completly dumb but at least our defensive options are good enough to not be completly free to it. when you pressure johnny the only thing you have to watch out is nutpunch but there are 3 ways to punish it. backdash after png -> run up f2, absorb the first hit -> backdash, run up f3 or absorb the first hit and block the second. imo the second method is the best because you have enough time to see what johnny does and absorb anything else as well like shadowkick. on knockdown in the corner johnny is pretty free to our pressure.

fisticuff: -

stunt double: SD shares the same problems as a-list but has great pressure as well with his clones so nothing really changes in this mu.
erron black:

marksman: 5-5 / 6-4
gunslinger: 5-5
outlaw: 6-4
marksman: marksman's pressure heavily relies on his cancels which are all - so if you see him you go it poke or armor out of it. fullscreen erron has some options but his low grenade can be punished with low toss and when he goes for his shot he needs to hold one oh toss at least due to his horrible recovery. marksman can do big damage when he gets a hit and being cornered against him is a big guessing game but luckily his pressure is full of holes and our pressure goes well with his bad defensive options.

gunslinger: gunslinger is a bigger problem for ruthless than errons other two variations. he can deal more chip damage and his zoning is really good, the coin is hard to absorb and so are the shots since they hit twice and travel quite fast but it's not too bad. otherwise he shares the same problems he has in this MU with his other two variations. also stand off stance 3 seems like a problem but in the corner you can armor through the gap with command grab and get the corner.

outlaw:
lui kang:

dualist: -
flame fist: 4-6
dragon fire: 5-5
-
ermac:

mystic: 4-6?
spectral: -
master of souls: 5-5
-
kotal kahn:

sun god: 6-4 (possibly better)
blood god: 6-4
war god: 5-5
-
reptile:

noxious: 5-5 / 6-4
deceptive: 5-5 / 6-4
nimble: 5-5 / 6-4
-
dvorah:

venomous: 5-5 / 6-4
brood mother: 5-5 / 4-6
swarm queen: 5-5 / 4-6
-
raiden:

master of storms: -
thunder god: -
displacer: 4-6
-
quan chi:

summoner: -
sorcerer: -
warlock: -
-
goro:

tigrar fury: -
kuatan warrior: -
dragon fangs: -
-
tremor:

crystalline: -
aftershock: -
metallic: -
-
triborg:

smoke: 4-6
sektor: 5-5
cyrax: 5-5
cyber sub-zero: 6-4 / 7-3?
-

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Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Smoke vs Ferra torr DEFINATLY cannot be 5-5. Smoke can smoke away easily vs Ferra torr pressure and can easily out space with his b2
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Lackey vs BG may be a possible 7-3 om a good day. Lackey can d1 / d3 out of b14 sunstone and b122 sunstone easily. B122 is a little harder than b14 because of hitstun. Lackey can easily blow up kotal khans staggers! And deals out massive damage at one time so when he gets in on kotal he gets in.
Edit; oh yeah did I mention 114 air grab and b122 cmmd grab with sun god whiffs midscreen?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Lackey vs BG may be a possible 7-3 om a good day. Lackey can d1 / d3 out of b14 sunstone and b122 sunstone easily. B122 is a little harder than b14 because of hitstun. Lackey can easily blow up kotal khans staggers! And deals out massive damage at one time so when he gets in on kotal he gets in.
Edit; oh yeah did I mention 114 air grab and b122 cmmd grab with sun god whiffs midscreen?
Lackey loses to BG 4-6 or goes even.

Sadly, LAckey has no real winning MUs.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
Sadly, LAckey has no real winning MUs.
i disagree. there's a decent amount of characters with gaps that can't be covered and lackey has a psuedo safe meterless armor and the most damaging armored launcher for one bar in this game (that i know of).
EDIT: sun god is an example
 
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llabslb

R1D1_998
This is the best and most in depth MU chart I've seen. I'm not too knowledgable about A-list v Ruthless but I think A-List does well against ruthless because of how easy Cage can armour break the pain and gain cancel with 12. No?
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
This is the best and most in depth MU chart I've seen. I'm not too knowledgable about A-list v Ruthless but I think A-List does well against ruthless because of how easy Cage can armour break the pain and gain cancel with 12. No?
Depends on what level of pain and gain Ferra for is On. But he can blow up all out Wakeups and reversals easily.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
This is the best and most in depth MU chart I've seen. I'm not too knowledgable about A-list v Ruthless but I think A-List does well against ruthless because of how easy Cage can armour break the pain and gain cancel with 12. No?
Thanks :) theoreticly yes but I have never experienced someone doing this. Usually everyone tries to escape with a reversal but if you read b121png this could work. The other strings are problably too plus
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
I would say Konjurer is the same as Acidic. While Drone drop and egg aren't as useful as acid spray, they have the same property of not being countered by ferra.

A lot of match ups are wrongly in the favour of the opponent simply because a lot of them can escape our best pressure for free. Even on hit f2xxdb2 will whiff consistently on some opponents, not even small ones mind you. On the other hand our MU in the corner is ridiculous, few people have the right tools to get out of the nightmare that is F/T corner pressure.

But to talk some numbers (im just gonna talk about character rather than each variation unless there's a major swing in the numbers).

Jason I think is about 6-4 to us, maybe unstoppable does a little better. But on the hole our neutral is better, and Jason doesn't have a good answer to our oki.

Demolition I'd put at 3-7 honestly, nades are one of the very few projectiles that trade in the opponents favour, and we can't neutralize them with Ferra. Other two I think are 4-6

Jax is a bit hard to place, but he has options to break our armour and respectable damage. I'll say this is 5-5, but part of me is leaning towards 5.5-4.5.

Kenshi is built to be one of the best counters to F/T, but the reality is his tools can be dodged with good reads. on paper I think this is 4-6 but in reality 5-5. Kenshi has all the ways to keep us out but relatively little to get us off him.

Kitana I place at 6-4, though that might be simply because of the Online Kitana's I play, very predictable, and while Boss Toss shuts down fans the best, db2 does a fine job, and most of the round I'm happy to eat a fan and armour through with PnG.

Scorpion is 5-5 across the board, hellfire might squeeze out a few more wins simply because of RC pressure

IMO we mop Sub zero pretty much anywhere. only note is that GM its like 2-8 to whoever has corner advantage

I say Mileena is in our favour too 6-4. only real thing to worry about is EX roll 50/50, other than that its fairly easy to wait until they hang themselves. EX low toss trades heavily in our favour against sais, and we have a consistent way to punish telekick. Not sure why you guys think this is such a terrible match up.

Takeda has us by the balls, Ronin being the only exception, and even then there's lots of pressure we have to hold. Dominant space control, we're constantly chasing him down, and he's pretty much free to escape after his pressure

I usually feel pretty comfortable in the cassie match up. I'd say this is pretty even. Spec ops is a bitch tho, stupid easy htb that essentially is a vortex.

Jacqui supposedly has us beat but again I feel differently, been mopped by more than a few but we have so much more range on her, b12 has enough pushback even at close range that any of her pokes will whiff.

Kung Jin 3-7

I'm really not even sure where to place Tanya, DN and Pyro probably do pretty well as they have better space control that us. I'll say this is 5-5 for now.

Bo Rai Cho is prolly even, maybe slight in his favour as ferra can't do shit about farts. I need more experience in this mu cuz I usually get fucked

I think we take the Leatherface mu, Pretty Lady can keep us out, but when we get through the chainsaw gauntlet he's fucked, he has piss poor armour so he can't armour out of pressure, and we have the range to contest with most of his normals

Predator is in 6-4, HQT lasers can be a bitch but just like Pretty lady if you get past them he has few options to get out of our pressure, his armour is too slow and EX lasers start high and has no armour. I bet Warrior does well but I've never played one.

Without hellsparks we'd own the Shinnok mu, i still have a hard time understanding how this one move massively swings the mu, but thats hellsparks for you.

Kano is a tough mu. Does the same thing we do except with less impact and more speed. i don't think cutthroat or command are much worse than 4-6, but cybernetic is terrible, mid knives are way too quick for either toss to trade effectively, and that stupid ambiguous 50/50 with air ball

I agree with JC, certainly doesn't feel like a 5-5 tho with practically unending pressure

Erron is pretty even, I feel like outlaw might be our best mu, but base erron is strong enough in his own right.

Liu Kang prolly sits around 4-6, like johnny cage so pressure, very chip. but Liu has a better zoning presence, whether it be fireballs or flying kicks

Ermac is 4-6 across the board. tons of plus frames, good pokes, and the float into low or teleport gimmick is really fucking annoying. Also has very strong meterless damage so we only get a few chances to win the fight.

I don't think we hold a game over sun god. that's even imo, Blood god is our bitch, as soon as he's on the ground the game is pretty much ours.

Reptile prolly takes us 4-6, same kind of reason as Kano, is simply a lot faster. Strong mix up game means its easy to open us up.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I would say Konjurer is the same as Acidic. While Drone drop and egg aren't as useful as acid spray, they have the same property of not being countered by ferra.

A lot of match ups are wrongly in the favour of the opponent simply because a lot of them can escape our best pressure for free. Even on hit f2xxdb2 will whiff consistently on some opponents, not even small ones mind you. On the other hand our MU in the corner is ridiculous, few people have the right tools to get out of the nightmare that is F/T corner pressure.

But to talk some numbers (im just gonna talk about character rather than each variation unless there's a major swing in the numbers).

Jason I think is about 6-4 to us, maybe unstoppable does a little better. But on the hole our neutral is better, and Jason doesn't have a good answer to our oki.

Demolition I'd put at 3-7 honestly, nades are one of the very few projectiles that trade in the opponents favour, and we can't neutralize them with Ferra. Other two I think are 4-6

Jax is a bit hard to place, but he has options to break our armour and respectable damage. I'll say this is 5-5, but part of me is leaning towards 5.5-4.5.

Kenshi is built to be one of the best counters to F/T, but the reality is his tools can be dodged with good reads. on paper I think this is 4-6 but in reality 5-5. Kenshi has all the ways to keep us out but relatively little to get us off him.

Kitana I place at 6-4, though that might be simply because of the Online Kitana's I play, very predictable, and while Boss Toss shuts down fans the best, db2 does a fine job, and most of the round I'm happy to eat a fan and armour through with PnG.

Scorpion is 5-5 across the board, hellfire might squeeze out a few more wins simply because of RC pressure

IMO we mop Sub zero pretty much anywhere. only note is that GM its like 2-8 to whoever has corner advantage

I say Mileena is in our favour too 6-4. only real thing to worry about is EX roll 50/50, other than that its fairly easy to wait until they hang themselves. EX low toss trades heavily in our favour against sais, and we have a consistent way to punish telekick. Not sure why you guys think this is such a terrible match up.

Takeda has us by the balls, Ronin being the only exception, and even then there's lots of pressure we have to hold. Dominant space control, we're constantly chasing him down, and he's pretty much free to escape after his pressure

I usually feel pretty comfortable in the cassie match up. I'd say this is pretty even. Spec ops is a bitch tho, stupid easy htb that essentially is a vortex.

Jacqui supposedly has us beat but again I feel differently, been mopped by more than a few but we have so much more range on her, b12 has enough pushback even at close range that any of her pokes will whiff.

Kung Jin 3-7

I'm really not even sure where to place Tanya, DN and Pyro probably do pretty well as they have better space control that us. I'll say this is 5-5 for now.

Bo Rai Cho is prolly even, maybe slight in his favour as ferra can't do shit about farts. I need more experience in this mu cuz I usually get fucked

I think we take the Leatherface mu, Pretty Lady can keep us out, but when we get through the chainsaw gauntlet he's fucked, he has piss poor armour so he can't armour out of pressure, and we have the range to contest with most of his normals

Predator is in 6-4, HQT lasers can be a bitch but just like Pretty lady if you get past them he has few options to get out of our pressure, his armour is too slow and EX lasers start high and has no armour. I bet Warrior does well but I've never played one.

Without hellsparks we'd own the Shinnok mu, i still have a hard time understanding how this one move massively swings the mu, but thats hellsparks for you.

Kano is a tough mu. Does the same thing we do except with less impact and more speed. i don't think cutthroat or command are much worse than 4-6, but cybernetic is terrible, mid knives are way too quick for either toss to trade effectively, and that stupid ambiguous 50/50 with air ball

I agree with JC, certainly doesn't feel like a 5-5 tho with practically unending pressure

Erron is pretty even, I feel like outlaw might be our best mu, but base erron is strong enough in his own right.

Liu Kang prolly sits around 4-6, like johnny cage so pressure, very chip. but Liu has a better zoning presence, whether it be fireballs or flying kicks

Ermac is 4-6 across the board. tons of plus frames, good pokes, and the float into low or teleport gimmick is really fucking annoying. Also has very strong meterless damage so we only get a few chances to win the fight.

I don't think we hold a game over sun god. that's even imo, Blood god is our bitch, as soon as he's on the ground the game is pretty much ours.

Reptile prolly takes us 4-6, same kind of reason as Kano, is simply a lot faster. Strong mix up game means its easy to open us up.
alright, mu's I don't agree with:

1piercing: I don't see us winning against mileena. her ex roll makes it hard to maintain pressure you literally have to bait out every single png. her b12 is better than ours. her roll low profiles our b12 at any state an it's our main pressure string. we can't wake up she always can armor break 50/50 us. we can only shut her options in the corner down when we already have 1 png and stack another one otherwise we have to bait and if mileena reads it and doesn't wake up she can roll if we try to follow up with basically anything and gets free corner carry were we pretty much are fucked. her low sai is also pretty fast and reacting with a bf motion move is just really dumb. bf inputs suck in this game tbh.

2. hqt: I can see your point, predators defensive tool are ass. however he's really good at the keepaway game and characters who can "chip" you before ruthless gets his pressure makes it harder than usual because you're always on low life. I don't really know how to judge this I mean in theory ruthless can win but if you watch bio vs destroyer you can see it can go either way.

3. reptile: I play with the some of best eu reptiles and never have I struggled in this mu. I don't see why it's particulary easier for reptile to open up ruthless than any other character in the game. reptiles looses the midscreen game and our pressure is really good against him. If you read the ex claw one time it's pretty much gg for reptile lol

4. cassie: I usually do better against spec ops than hollywood. I mean spec ops doesn't really have an advantage in this particular matchup those htb's are hard to deal with with any character beside smoke, hollywood cassie or goro. hollywood on the other side can be so frustrating if your opponent can do iags really good. also this stupid nutpunch gets me all the time :(

anything else seems very reasonable for me :)
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
alright, mu's I don't agree with:

1piercing: I don't see us winning against mileena. her ex roll makes it hard to maintain pressure you literally have to bait out every single png. her b12 is better than ours. her roll low profiles our b12 at any state an it's our main pressure string. we can't wake up she always can armor break 50/50 us. we can only shut her options in the corner down when we already have 1 png and stack another one otherwise we have to bait and if mileena reads it and doesn't wake up she can roll if we try to follow up with basically anything and gets free corner carry were we pretty much are fucked. her low sai is also pretty fast and reacting with a bf motion move is just really dumb. bf inputs suck in this game tbh.

2. hqt: I can see your point, predators defensive tool are ass. however he's really good at the keepaway game and characters who can "chip" you before ruthless gets his pressure makes it harder than usual because you're always on low life. I don't really know how to judge this I mean in theory ruthless can win but if you watch bio vs destroyer you can see it can go either way.

3. reptile: I play with the some of best eu reptiles and never have I struggled in this mu. I don't see why it's particulary easier for reptile to open up ruthless than any other character in the game. reptiles looses the midscreen game and our pressure is really good against him. If you read the ex claw one time it's pretty much gg for reptile lol

4. cassie: I usually do better against spec ops than hollywood. I mean spec ops doesn't really have an advantage in this particular matchup those htb's are hard to deal with with any character beside smoke, hollywood cassie or goro. hollywood on the other side can be so frustrating if your opponent can do iags really good. also this stupid nutpunch gets me all the time :(

anything else seems very reasonable for me :)
For some reason I forgot about Mileena's armour breaking string, partially because our wakeup options are ass to begin with. But yes that is a huge factor in the MU. I still think we can sit back and let her hang herself.

Reptile also has some very strong oki with slow/fast forceballs and side switching. I don't feel terrible in the mu either (tho I usually pick Vicious). I just think he has slightly better tools than us, other than in neutral.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
These are just some of my opinions:

GM is a 5-5 or maybe just slight favor for f/t. Reason being, yes, ferra shuts down the clone in neutral but this is mkx, sub will hit you once and you're cornered. Although most of the cast is pretty screwed against sub in the corner, F/T has it worse than most. Both wakeups are completely nullified, meaning you have to get up without ferra (aka no limbs to go through clone and no specials whatsoever) for a few seconds. These few seconds are when F/T gets brutally fucked. Sub's jump normals are another big factor in that MU but I won't go into that.

I've ground the hell out of the DF Goro matchup (playing both sides) and it feels pretty 5-5 if not slightly in goros favor, but not bad enough to be 6-4. Goro does well against pressure characters in general and he doesn't have to worry about tons of zoning like his other matchups. Ferra toss is actually less plus on him from most strings (if plus at all). He can also OS our wakeups in the corner with a dash up into njk/njp. It's a really interesting matchup imo.

Other matchup numbers/changes that I won't go into too much (but ask if you have a question)
Ermac (mystic) 3-7 and 3-7 in spectral's favor I've heard from Bdogg but I haven't played that MU myself
Raiden (TG) 6-4
Raiden (Displacer) 5-5
CSZ 5-5
Johnny (A-list) 4-6
Kano (cutthroat) hard 4-6 maybe even 3-7
Jason 5-5 all variations
Scorpion (hellfire) 6-4
Erron (gunslinger & marksman) 6-4

Btw I'm only posting these on matchups I've played inside and out against great players (unless stated otherwise)
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
For some reason I forgot about Mileena's armour breaking string, partially because our wakeup options are ass to begin with. But yes that is a huge factor in the MU. I still think we can sit back and let her hang herself.

Reptile also has some very strong oki with slow/fast forceballs and side switching. I don't feel terrible in the mu either (tho I usually pick Vicious). I just think he has slightly better tools than us, other than in neutral.
imo our wakeups are okay, nothing like predators or quans wakeups. pretty much no one can wakeup against so mileena so yeah. what do you mean exactly with hang herself? I mean her zoning is better than most of the cast due to the traveling speed of the sais I find it hard to react to the low sai. the high is too fast to do oh toss usually so you have to respect her fullscreen kinda. I agree that when mileena does telekick against us she's pretty much digging her own grave.though if you play against good mileenas you probably won't find yourself have too much chances to punish the yolo roll's, plus our b12 is our main pressure tool and she can low profile it whenever she wants.

okay that makes sense. I originally thought too that vicious would be the better pick against reptile but actually ruthless does way better against him. next time you face reptile try ruthless out and see it for yourself how real the struggle it is for them with png :D
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
These are just some of my opinions:

GM is a 5-5 or maybe just slight favor for f/t. Reason being, yes, ferra shuts down the clone in neutral but this is mkx, sub will hit you once and you're cornered. Although most of the cast is pretty screwed against sub in the corner, F/T has it worse than most. Both wakeups are completely nullified, meaning you have to get up without ferra (aka no limbs to go through clone and no specials whatsoever) for a few seconds. These few seconds are when F/T gets brutally fucked. Sub's jump normals are another big factor in that MU but I won't go into that.

I've ground the hell out of the DF Goro matchup (playing both sides) and it feels pretty 5-5 if not slightly in goros favor, but not bad enough to be 6-4. Goro does well against pressure characters in general and he doesn't have to worry about tons of zoning like his other matchups. Ferra toss is actually less plus on him from most strings (if plus at all). He can also OS our wakeups in the corner with a dash up into njk/njp. It's a really interesting matchup imo.

Other matchup numbers/changes that I won't go into too much (but ask if you have a question)
Ermac (mystic) 3-7 and 3-7 in spectral's favor I've heard from Bdogg but I haven't played that MU myself
Raiden (TG) 6-4
Raiden (Displacer) 5-5
CSZ 5-5
Johnny (A-list) 4-6
Kano (cutthroat) hard 4-6 maybe even 3-7
Jason 5-5 all variations
Scorpion (hellfire) 6-4
Erron (gunslinger & marksman) 6-4

Btw I'm only posting these on matchups I've played inside and out against great players (unless stated otherwise)
I agree on grandmaster. though I think it's more of a 6-4 for us than a 5-5.

good write up on the df goro mu, I'll straight copy it in the OP thanks :)

you have to elaborate on these more:
-why is displacer raiden worse than thunder god?
-csz being 5-5
-is the kano mu really that bad?
-gunslinger erron being 6-4
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Since we have no real matchup chart for either of the variations i thought it would be time to start one.

the numbers I wrote down come from MY experience and it's an OPEN discussion so if you disagree with any of my numbers feel free to give me feedback so we can discuss the match up, I'm willing to change any matchup number if you make valid points.

Of course I don't have experience with every mu in the game so please if you don't play ruthless but have experience playing against them share it with us so we can make this as accurate as possible.
when there is a "?" behind a mu I played this matchup a bit but not enough to ensure that these are the right numbers.

I also got lazy after the erron black mu's to write down what I think about them but they're coming for the missing characters. also if you have experience against characters with a missing spot in the list I'm probably just going to copy&paste your text about it for the mu information.

so here it is, feel free to discuss:

Matchups

Alien:

-Tarkatan: 4-6
-acidic: 4-6?
-Konjurer: -
Tarkatan: at first I thought this mu was 5-5 but after oomoba listed some good points I can see this mu loosing for ruthless. The only space where we have kind of advantage is fullscreen. otherwise aliens reach makes the neutral difficult for us, same goes for close range. when we pressure him we have to watch out for his 3 hitting armored launcher. while we can absorb his 50/50 he can still do that or his rekkas to blow our pressure up. though if ruthless is already level 1 png tarkatan is pretty fucked since you can blow up pretty much all his reversal options.

Acidic: Haven't played this MU too much but in my eyes it's a loosing matchup on paper. fullscreen is hard to deal with alien since we can't absorb his acid zoning so we need to get in somehow. acidics neutral is a problem for us as well. in the corner we can't armor after aliens restand because we don't have ferra so we need to respect the followup. on the other side acidic doesn't have access to rekkas and the 3 hitting armored launcher so when we manage to get in acidic is done.

Konjurer: -

Jason:

-unstoppable: -
-Slasher: -
-relentless: -
unstoppable: -

slasher: -

relentless: -
Kung lao:

-Hat Trick: 5-5 / 6-4
-tempest: 6-4
-buzz saw: 5-5 / 6-4
Hat trick: all of kung laos share one thing that is hard to handle and that is his annoying air game. also hat trick and buzz saw have access to a different version of ex spin which hits 3 times so we can't braindead pressure him to death. this said these are probably hat tricks only advantages in this mu.

tempest: tempest doesn't have 3 hitting ex spin which means in the corner tempest doesn't have a chance. the only problem is his ex spin is extremely fast so if you want to stuff it with png either you need to be really fast after command grab or you end your combos with 112 to have more advantage.

buzz saw: same thing as with hat trick but buzz saw can't even utilise his low hat in this mu as much as usual. On read you can ex low toss for 30% damage from fullscreen and in 3/4 range I don't even think you can react to low toss fast enough after low hat.
Jax:

wrestler: -
heavy weapons: -
pumped up: -
-
sonya:

special forces: -
covert ops: -
demolition: 4-6
special forces: -

covert ops: -

demolition: her grenades are so annoying to deal with especially since we can't absorb them for whatever reason. beside that her neutral is better than ours, her air game is better than ours and it's really hard to gain momentum against her.
kenshi:

kenjutsu: -
balanced: -
possessed: -
-

kitana:

mournful: -
royal storm: 5-5 / 6-4
assassin: -
mournful: -

royal storm: kitana can be annoying fullscreen. we can asborb her fans but there is a good chance she hits us with one of them before. but it's not that bad you just have to work your way up to her and be patient, use oh toss and use the hit advantage to run up to her. if you don't have ferra dash and duck until she's back and DON'T JUMP AGAINST HER!

assassin: -
scorpion:

inferno: -
ninjutsu: -
hellfire: -
-
sub-zero:

grandmaster: 6-4
cryomancer: -
unbreakable: 7-3
grandmaster: ferra doesn't have a hurtbox so things like the tosses, b2, 4 2+4, b4, njp all go through the clone. if he tries to fullscreen grandmaster you don't throw ferra when you didn't read the clone. wait until he tries to throw it, to ice ball you or come closer to you so you don't have to deal with fullscreen chip, when you negate his option to make his clone work he needs to get closer to you. although this sounds great sub still can freely jump at us because his jump in punch is impossible for is to anti air unless he doesn't time it right but I wouldn't bet on that. corner is also an ugly place to be against grandmaster but if he doesn't 50/50 you directly after clone make us of the glory njp.

cryomancer: -

unbreakable: I don't see unbreakable winning this mu without luck. he can't do anything against our pressure and fullscreen game. he can't wakeup against us and we can control the neutral good enough to make it really hard for him to come in.
mileena:

ravenous: -
piercing: 4-6 / 3-7 (probably 3-7)
etheral: -
Ravenous: -

piercing: b12 controls the neutral better than we do. roll low profiles our main pressure tool b1 which is a mid (thanks nrs). when we png pressure we're actually in a disavdantage because ex roll is multi hitting and it is freaking hard to block in time before her overhead and as said before roll low profiles b1 if we wan't to follow up with that (don't do that in this mu seriously) so we can't maintain pressure against her. her fullscreen game is also way better than ours and she can zone us for days.

etheral: -
takeda:

ronin: 4-6
shirai ryu: 4-6 / 3-7
lasher: 4-6 / 3-7
ronin: ronin can annoy us in the neutral with blade drop an call. ronins b1 stagger outclasses us and he controls the air really well, though you can anti air his tornado strike on read with oh toss. when you pressure ronin you have to watch out for his double shirai ryu kan since it hits two times and after b121pngc you can't bait it so I suggest to make more use of b12pngc in this mu since you can easier cancel into block or actually absorb the first hit and block the second to full combo punish. In the corner you CAN'T safe png after command grab to stuff his armor so end your combos in 112 and png after that or bait his wakeup.

shirai ryu: it's really hard to gain momentum in this mu. shirai ryu doesn't really have to get close to beat us and we can't reach him with our normals without being full combo punished for trying. he controls air and ground better than us but at least we don't have to fear his wakeups and reversals that much when we get the chance to pressure him.

lasher: same with shirai ryu but I think it's even worse. there is no need for lasher to come close even when we're cornered he can 50/50 while being out of our wakeup range. getting in against takeda is hard enough but lasher also has his jbp, his d+f1 which is -19 on block but if he is at max range we can't punish any of his unsafe moves.
cassie cage:

spec ops: 5-5
hollywood: 4-6
brawler: 5-5 / 6-4
spec ops: cassie in general is a really good neutral character. watch out for her b1 since she can avoid our b12 pressure easier due to her good walk speed and punish us for it. good thing is spec ops midscreen damage is ass and she has nothing garantueed but a good spec ops player knows your options after her setups so try not to fall in a pattern. when she does b12,close rocket as an ender you can wether tech roll or delay or straight wakeup. I'd suggest go for tech roll as long as she tries to armor break you and then go for wakeups. ferra tosses aren't fast enough to hit cassie during her recovery of the rockets so that they disapear but at least you can hit her on reaction so she can't safely followup with anything after you blocked the rocket. she's not the best at the keepaway game but you still have to be careful because of her b1 and b2. her defense is really weak luckily. on the other side when she corners us we are done if she does one right read on our wakeup.

hollywood: this mu is worse than the spec ops mu for sure. if the hollywood player can do iag's perfect she has a decent way to keep us out. the shots are WAY faster than her normal ground shot so you have to carefuly netraul duck and toss inbetween the recovery and startup of her next shot to get a hit on her. she can make her 50/50's safe, armor break us with f44. in this MU when you pressure cassie try to not to cancel on block into something as much as possible. her ex nutpunch will absorb the hit and the we loose all our advantage. though you can absorb the first hit with png and backdash between the first and second hit so cassie is jailed into her recovery and can be full combo punished.

brawler: luckily brawler doesn't have any full screen presence. though she hits like a truck I don't think she does too well in this mu. her defense options can be shut down by png and her only advantage is that she plays the neutral better than we do.
jacqui:

high tech: -
shotgun: -
full auto: -
-

kung jin:

shaolin: -
ancestral: -
bojutsu: -
-
tanya:

pyromancer: -
kobu jutsu: -
dragon naginata: -
-
bo rai cho:

bartitsu: -
dragon breath: -
drunken master: -
-
leatherface:

pretty lady: -
killer: -
butcher: -
-
predator:

HQT: 5-5 / 4-6
warrior: -
hunter: 5-5 / 6-4
HQT: this MU is hard to judge. predator is the second best zoner in the game and ruthless definitely struggles against him from half of the screen. if predator corners you his pressure is INSANE, BUT if you read his cancel and he doesn't cancel into s2 his follow up is a high und you can d3 out of it or armor through it. predator probably has one of the worst defensive options in the game, he has absolutely no chance when we corner him. he can't wake up, he can't reversal and only gets out if he reads that you won't go for b12 otherwise his armor will be broke.

warrior: -

hunter: hunter shares the same defensive problems as hqt but in addition that he can't do anything against us from any range. his disk doesn't help him in the MU since we can easily hit him with tosses and we don't need to jump either way. however he has some really nasty pressure with his trap
shinnok:

necromancer: -
imposter: 3-7
bone shaper: 4-6
necromancer: -

imposter: ugh it's this mu, definitely the worst MU ruthless has. getting in is almost impossible due to hellsparks and his teleport. when he teleports we can backdash so we can at least avoid is njk, however it puts us in a bad spot because shinnok can now hellspark again. if he manages to hit us he gets 19% additional damage to the combo he did which is stupid. My suggestion for this mu is to not use ferra torr there is just no way to win without plenty of luck.

boneshaper: not as bad is imposter but not great though. the hellsparks problem still exists and his blast is and unblockable ground thingy are great at fullscreen against us. when he restands us we don't have access to ferra so we have to backdash which is the same scenario as in imposter.
kano:

commando: -
cutthroat: -
cybernetic: -
-
johnny cage:

a-list: 5-5
fisticuff: -
stunt double: 5-5
a-list: a-lists zoning is completly outperformed by our counter zoning, however his neutral game is really good with d4 and f3. as you all know his pressure is completly dumb but at least our defensive options are good enough to not be completly free to it. when you pressure johnny the only thing you have to watch out is nutpunch but there are 3 ways to punish it. backdash after png -> run up f2, absorb the first hit -> backdash, run up f3 or absorb the first hit and block the second. imo the second method is the best because you have enough time to see what johnny does and absorb anything else as well like shadowkick. on knockdown in the corner johnny is pretty free to our pressure.

fisticuff: -

stunt double: SD shares the same problems as a-list but has great pressure as well with his clones so nothing really changes in this mu.
erron black:

marksman: 5-5 / 6-4
gunslinger: 5-5
outlaw: 6-4
marksman: marksman's pressure heavily relies on his cancels which are all - so if you see him you go it poke or armor out of it. fullscreen erron has some options but his low grenade can be punished with low toss and when he goes for his shot he needs to hold one oh toss at least due to his horrible recovery. marksman can do big damage when he gets a hit and being cornered against him is a big guessing game but luckily his pressure is full of holes and our pressure goes well with his bad defensive options.

gunslinger: gunslinger is a bigger problem for ruthless than errons other two variations. he can deal more chip damage and his zoning is really good, the coin is hard to absorb and so are the shots since they hit twice and travel quite fast but it's not too bad. otherwise he shares the same problems he has in this MU with his other two variations. also stand off stance 3 seems like a problem but in the corner you can armor through the gap with command grab and get the corner.

outlaw:
lui kang:

dualist: -
flame fist: 4-6
dragon fire: 5-5
-
ermac:

mystic: 4-6?
spectral: -
master of souls: 5-5
-
kotal kahn:

sun god: 6-4
blood god: 5-5 / 6-4
war god: 5-5
-
reptile:

noxious: 5-5 / 6-4
deceptive: 5-5 / 6-4
nimble: 5-5 / 6-4
-
dvorah:

venomous: 5-5 / 6-4
brood mother: 5-5
swarm queen: 5-5
-
raiden:

master of storms: -
thunder god: -
displacer: -
-
quan chi:

summoner: -
sorcerer: -
warlock: -
-
goro:

tigrar fury: -
kuatan warrior: -
dragon fangs: 5-5 (slightly in goros favor)
tigrar fury:

kuatan warrior:

dragon fangs: 've ground the hell out of the DF Goro matchup (playing both sides) and it feels pretty 5-5 if not slightly in goros favor, but not bad enough to be 6-4. Goro does well against pressure characters in general and he doesn't have to worry about tons of zoning like his other matchups. Ferra toss is actually less plus on him from most strings (if plus at all). He can also OS our wakeups in the corner with a dash up into njk/njp. It's a really interesting matchup imo.
tremor:

crystalline: -
aftershock: -
metallic: -
-
triborg:

smoke: 5-5
sektor: 5-5
cyrax: 5-5
cyber sub-zero: 6-4 / 7-3?
-

@Doombawkz
@Kamikaze_Highlander
@Shade667
@Cooljaxx
@dennycascade
@omooba
@Wetdoba
@MadeFromMetal
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
i disagree. there's a decent amount of characters with gaps that can't be covered and lackey has a psuedo safe meterless armor and the most damaging armored launcher for one bar in this game (that i know of).
EDIT: sun god is an example
"psuedo safe meterless armor" being what, our 30 frame charge that loses armor after the first 9 frames that's also -8 on block?
Most damaging armored launcher for one bar doesn't belong to Lackey, we do get a decent chunk but none of that matters considering he has no realistic pressure options or 50/50 to use.
If you're just suggesting we throw out our valuable meter on guesses to try and punish stuff, do keep in mind the hitbox is also janky and you're more likely to go over your opponent or get blocked than actually do anything.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
I agree on grandmaster. though I think it's more of a 6-4 for us than a 5-5.

good write up on the df goro mu, I'll straight copy it in the OP thanks :)

you have to elaborate on these more:
-why is displacer raiden worse than thunder god?
-csz being 5-5
-is the kano mu really that bad?
-gunslinger erron being 6-4
Displacer does better than TG for three reasons.
1: Ferra/Torr lives for the corner game, and Displacer can't be cornered. Against TG on the other hand, 90% of the match will be taking place at the corner for both sides, so it's much easier to get our ridiculous corner game going against him.
2: Displacer can play keepaway for days. With our movement speed, it's extremely hard to pin him down while safely teleporting all over the place and throwing lightning balls.
3: Armor options. All of TG's armored moves are single hitting which makes them easily baited with PnG, whether it's on wakeup or mid-pressure. Displacer's best armored option is his EX teleport which can be placed in many different locations and can be followed up with pretty much whatever he wants, so he doesn't share the armor problem with TG.

CSZ is 5-5 for a lot of same reasons as displacer. He has zoning/keepaway that would be considered mediocre against most characters but it really makes f/t work hard getting in. Super mobility with divekick, hard to compete with his bombs, b2 and f2 in neutral, and his godlike backdash makes it impossible to pin him down until you've run him all the way to the corner. It's actually pretty slanted in CSZ's favor until you reach the corner, but once you get there it could be game over which evens it out to a 5-5.

Yes, the kano matchup really is that bad. Ferra Toss does not help against his regular knives' insane recovery. His backdash is even better than CSZ's. He full combo punishes tuck n trample on block. EX up ball keeps us off of him with no risk involved and can't be baited with PnG or armor broken. His d4 low profiles our best mid in 7 frames. EX knives don't whiff on us. And all this is just Universal Kano BS. Cutthroat is just hilariously unwinnable, and I'm speaking from experience after playing Gametime and Noobe. HIs moveset is basically the ultimate anti-F/T character lol.

Gunslinger and Marksman lose due to not having effective zoning against ferra toss, bad mids (big weakness against f/t), bad backdash, easily baited single hitting armor, and not being able to AA our j1 from most distances (I know it's hard to believe with errons s1, but try it yourself). @Sage Leviathan is the best Gunslinger I play and he can confirm.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah Displacer is way worse for us than TG. Displacer is bad for pretty much the same reason Zatanna was bad for Bane.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
what do you mean exactly with hang herself?
Only way mileena is getting any damage is through (EX) roll if we block that, its 36% into hkd setup thats kinda tough to get out of. Sai is a better projectile, but EX bowl girl trades in our favour for a full combo with high sai, and destroys low sai, if bowl girl was a hkd I wouldn't even feel the need to spend the bar. Punishing telekick can net us damage in the low 30s. So basically if you just sit and block at some point mileena is guaranteed to do one of those things, she doesn't have the kind of chip or range ability that forces us to come in.

This is one of those, if not the most egregious, case of a MU being unfairly against us, simply because of Mileena's stupid hitbox. If roll could be stuffed by mids or Mileena actually got hit by b12 then its easily in our favour imo.