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Question - Shinnok KP3 Buffs? Nerfs? What do you think?

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
honestly tho really should make amulet strike -5 on block. Its a pretty useless move outside of geting a brutality or nullifying a projectile...which you could just avoid.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Please Calf, add all the suggested changes at the top of the thread (as seen here: https://testyourmight.com/threads/with-the-kp2-patch-coming-up-what-buffs-nerfs-should-shinnok-receive.57844/) I was gonna make this thread lol but you beat me to it. Anyways, the changes I want are:
  • OTG doesn't scale
  • Can Mimicry and Scoop after Krushing Shoulder
  • Krushing Shoulder's Spark on hit comes out on block as well leaving him at -7 but there is a gap between the spark and the hit from the shoulder
  • Standing 4 faster start-up
  • F2 is -3
  • Less Push Back on Amulet Curse
  • F3 faster start-up
  • B2 is +6 on block (gets the big leg treatment)
  • Amulet Strike steals bar from the opponent
  • Mimicry steals bar from the opponent
  • Increased range on Scepter Slam/Launch
  • Amulet Curse has more pop-up/launch
  • Ex-Dark Beam is +16
  • Increased Vertical Hitbox on F4
  • Amulet Strike is -5
  • Krushing Shoulder pops them towards Shinnok not away
  • Make D2 a mid
  • Make Krushing Shoulder safe
  • Make Charging Shoulder safe
Here are the changes I still want implemented from the KP2 Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal:

· Standing 3 – Now a Low instead of a Mid Buff

· Standing 4 – Now a Mid instead of a High Buff

· F2 – 2 frames off the start up frames (Down to 15 in Non-Bone Shaper; Down to 17 in Bone Shaper) Buff

· B1 – Increased push-back (enough for all 3 Hell Sparks to connect on block) Buff

· Damage – Increased damage output overall Buff

· 11 – Fix hit box issues Buff

· X-Ray – Bitch slaps into Brutality

Necromancer:

· Devil’s Flick

o Improve tracking Buff

o Reduced start up frames Buff

o Reverted back to -4 on block Buff

· Summoned Fiend

o Improve tracking Buff

o Safe(r) on block Buff

o Becomes a Low Buff

o Reduce start up frames (fast enough to anti-air) Buff

o Able to Brutality off of​

· Judgment Fist

o Becomes an 11 Frame Overhead instead of Unblockable (similar to Tremor’s Rock Drop) Buff

o Cancel-able if it does not become an 11 frame overhead (cancel similar to MK9 Jax’s Ground Pound) Buff

o Note: Judgment Smash still remains a slow unblockable. with it able to still crush opponents on delayed wake-up.​

· Judgment Smash – Cancel-able but faster than Judgment Fist's cancel (like the difference in advantage between cancelling LK's fire ball and cancelling his Ex-fire ball) Buff

· Summoned Slam

o Able to utilize twice in one combo Buff

o Armored Buff

· Variation Aesthetics – Remove silly bone hands in exchange for another aesthetic identifier (possibly Pimp Rings)

Impostor:

· Stolen Moves – Different stolen moves from the following characters:

o Kenshi; currently steals Rising Sword​

o Takeda; currently steals Tornado Kick​

o Jacqui; currently steals Bionic Dash​

o Ferra/Torr; currently steals Deep Stab​

o Raiden; currently steals Electric Fly​

o Goro; currently steals Stomp​

o Jason; currently steals Killing Machine​

o Predator; currently steals Stealth​

· Mimicry

o Kenshi – Steal “Blade Reflect” or “Rising Karma” instead of “Rising Sword”​

o Takeda – Steal “Fist Whirlwind” instead of “Tornado Kick”​

o Raiden – Steal “Shocker” instead of “Electric Fly”​

o Predator – Steal “Scimitar Slam” instead of “Stealth”, or add the ability to combo into Mimicry while Stealth is already active at the cost of removing the invisibility.​

o Add an Enhanced Mimicry or a MB version of Mimicry with the following properties:
  1. Armor while using the stolen move Buff
  2. Gains the Ex-properties of the stolen move if he does not already Buff
  3. Able to hit full screen like Quan Chi's trance Buff

· Air-Tricky Portal

o Can Air-Tricky Portal while grounded (just Tricky Portal); Ex-Version of grounded Tricky Portal with armor upon reaching the destination Shinnok teleported to. Buff

o Can teleport in place, in addition to behind or in front of the opponent. Buff

Bone Shaper:

· Dark Beam – Revert to -8 on block instead of -12. Buff

· F221+3 – Make the “1+3” part of the string able to come out on block (currently +2 but not possible to come out and block; also, come out as a Mid not a throw/grab) Buff

· F4, 1, D2, U2

o U2 is at least 0 on block Buff

o U2 has enough hit advantage to follow up with Sceptor Slam and Sceptor Launch Buff

o Gap between D2 and U2

o Note: Apply the same changes to F3, 1, D2, U2​

· Krushing Shoulder – Can combo off it with Sceptor Slam/Sceptor Launch Buff

Both Impostor and Necromancer:

· Krushing Shoulder – Able to juggle off it with F22 Buff

· F2, 2, 4

o Fix hit box issues; some female characters low profile this mid hitting string while crouching or crouch blocking. Buff

o Add more cancel advantage frames to '4' Buff

o Less minus on block (currently -17) Buff

· Amulet Strike

o Reduce start up frames Buff

o Reduce recovery frames Buff

o Safe on block (around -5/-6) Buff

o Made into a Mid instead of a High. Buff

o Implement one of the 3 following options: Buff
  1. When Shinnok negates a projectile, 20-25% of a meter is gained
  2. When Shinnok negates a projectile, 2% of health is gained back
  3. When Shinnok negates a projectile, the next time Amulet Strike is used, it comes out faster with projectile absorbing properties, ~10% damage, ~3% chip damage, and at least neutral on block (similar to Ronin Takeda's Piercing Beam)
What drugs are you on?
 

omooba

fear the moobs
if cowboy comments in this thread someone please tag me or give some kind of notification. personally think the only buff he should get is making it so there's no character shinnok takes a move from that he'll just want to waste by whiffing it. would make him more fun
also would love it if any shinnok mains specifically imposter that wants to train with me
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
If I posted a list similar to that on the SZ forums I'd be burned to a stake all while the entire forum started singing" Ding Dong the asshole's dead"
 

DC4-3

Low tier button masher.
Impostor is a very situational/mu dependant variation. You need mimicry to hit and steal a decent move to do damage without meter.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Impostor is a very situational/mu dependant variation. You need mimicry to hit and steal a decent move to do damage without meter.
I know Impostor is situational/mu-dependent but the fact is you can do things INTO mimicry without meter in the first place, then depending on the move you steal you might use meter for vortex or other combos.
 

Perdition

Your friendly neighborhood cynic
Impostor is a very situational/mu dependant variation. You need mimicry to hit and steal a decent move to do damage without meter.
Impostor situational???? Yeah right. That variation is well rounded and can hold its own with almost any variation in the game. And why are Shinnok players complaining about having to use meter for big damage? He can build meter no problem. It is up to the player to manage it properly so that you get the most from meter dependant characters.

Necro=the situational variation

I use Shinnok, and he is fine. Necro is about the only one that needs a touch of help.
 
Last edited:

D. R.

Noob
I know Impostor is situational/mu-dependent but the fact is you can do things INTO mimicry without meter in the first place, then depending on the move you steal you might use meter for vortex or other combos.
So where did my post go?
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Please Calf, add all the suggested changes at the top of the thread (as seen here: https://testyourmight.com/threads/with-the-kp2-patch-coming-up-what-buffs-nerfs-should-shinnok-receive.57844/) I was gonna make this thread lol but you beat me to it. Anyways, the changes I want are:
  • OTG doesn't scale
  • Can Mimicry and Scoop after Krushing Shoulder
  • Krushing Shoulder's Spark on hit comes out on block as well leaving him at -7 but there is a gap between the spark and the hit from the shoulder
  • Standing 4 faster start-up
  • F2 is -3
  • Less Push Back on Amulet Curse
  • F3 faster start-up
  • B2 is +6 on block (gets the big leg treatment)
  • Amulet Strike steals bar from the opponent
  • Mimicry steals bar from the opponent
  • Increased range on Scepter Slam/Launch
  • Amulet Curse has more pop-up/launch
  • Ex-Dark Beam is +16
  • Increased Vertical Hitbox on F4
  • Amulet Strike is -5
  • Krushing Shoulder pops them towards Shinnok not away
  • Make D2 a mid
  • Make Krushing Shoulder safe
  • Make Charging Shoulder safe
Here are the changes I still want implemented from the KP2 Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal:

· Standing 3 – Now a Low instead of a Mid Buff

· Standing 4 – Now a Mid instead of a High Buff

· F2 – 2 frames off the start up frames (Down to 15 in Non-Bone Shaper; Down to 17 in Bone Shaper) Buff

· B1 – Increased push-back (enough for all 3 Hell Sparks to connect on block) Buff

· Damage – Increased damage output overall Buff

· 11 – Fix hit box issues Buff

· X-Ray – Bitch slaps into Brutality

Necromancer:

· Devil’s Flick

o Improve tracking Buff

o Reduced start up frames Buff

o Reverted back to -4 on block Buff

· Summoned Fiend

o Improve tracking Buff

o Safe(r) on block Buff

o Becomes a Low Buff

o Reduce start up frames (fast enough to anti-air) Buff

o Able to Brutality off of​

· Judgment Fist

o Becomes an 11 Frame Overhead instead of Unblockable (similar to Tremor’s Rock Drop) Buff

o Cancel-able if it does not become an 11 frame overhead (cancel similar to MK9 Jax’s Ground Pound) Buff

o Note: Judgment Smash still remains a slow unblockable. with it able to still crush opponents on delayed wake-up.​

· Judgment Smash – Cancel-able but faster than Judgment Fist's cancel (like the difference in advantage between cancelling LK's fire ball and cancelling his Ex-fire ball) Buff

· Summoned Slam

o Able to utilize twice in one combo Buff

o Armored Buff

· Variation Aesthetics – Remove silly bone hands in exchange for another aesthetic identifier (possibly Pimp Rings)

Impostor:

· Stolen Moves – Different stolen moves from the following characters:

o Kenshi; currently steals Rising Sword​

o Takeda; currently steals Tornado Kick​

o Jacqui; currently steals Bionic Dash​

o Ferra/Torr; currently steals Deep Stab​

o Raiden; currently steals Electric Fly​

o Goro; currently steals Stomp​

o Jason; currently steals Killing Machine​

o Predator; currently steals Stealth​

· Mimicry

o Kenshi – Steal “Blade Reflect” or “Rising Karma” instead of “Rising Sword”​

o Takeda – Steal “Fist Whirlwind” instead of “Tornado Kick”​

o Raiden – Steal “Shocker” instead of “Electric Fly”​

o Predator – Steal “Scimitar Slam” instead of “Stealth”, or add the ability to combo into Mimicry while Stealth is already active at the cost of removing the invisibility.​

o Add an Enhanced Mimicry or a MB version of Mimicry with the following properties:
  1. Armor while using the stolen move Buff
  2. Gains the Ex-properties of the stolen move if he does not already Buff
  3. Able to hit full screen like Quan Chi's trance Buff

· Air-Tricky Portal

o Can Air-Tricky Portal while grounded (just Tricky Portal); Ex-Version of grounded Tricky Portal with armor upon reaching the destination Shinnok teleported to. Buff

o Can teleport in place, in addition to behind or in front of the opponent. Buff

Bone Shaper:

· Dark Beam – Revert to -8 on block instead of -12. Buff

· F221+3 – Make the “1+3” part of the string able to come out on block (currently +2 but not possible to come out and block; also, come out as a Mid not a throw/grab) Buff

· F4, 1, D2, U2

o U2 is at least 0 on block Buff

o U2 has enough hit advantage to follow up with Sceptor Slam and Sceptor Launch Buff

o Gap between D2 and U2

o Note: Apply the same changes to F3, 1, D2, U2​

· Krushing Shoulder – Can combo off it with Sceptor Slam/Sceptor Launch Buff

Both Impostor and Necromancer:

· Krushing Shoulder – Able to juggle off it with F22 Buff

· F2, 2, 4

o Fix hit box issues; some female characters low profile this mid hitting string while crouching or crouch blocking. Buff

o Add more cancel advantage frames to '4' Buff

o Less minus on block (currently -17) Buff

· Amulet Strike

o Reduce start up frames Buff

o Reduce recovery frames Buff

o Safe on block (around -5/-6) Buff

o Made into a Mid instead of a High. Buff

o Implement one of the 3 following options: Buff
  1. When Shinnok negates a projectile, 20-25% of a meter is gained
  2. When Shinnok negates a projectile, 2% of health is gained back
  3. When Shinnok negates a projectile, the next time Amulet Strike is used, it comes out faster with projectile absorbing properties, ~10% damage, ~3% chip damage, and at least neutral on block (similar to Ronin Takeda's Piercing Beam)
TL;DR: Make Shinnok top 3. This list is insane.
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
make meterless amulet safer, i don't get why the move is unsafe when it doesnt really do much, its not even a projectile like dark beam in boneshaper.
I don't know about safer but making it quicker startup for when you read a run that HS is too slow to hit or wanna nullify a projectile would be cool.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
F4 nullifies projectiles? Shit no wonder everyone says Wound downplays.
no, im saying the nullification of a projectile isnt that big of a deal when u can just avoid them completely, i'd prefer a safe amulet over one doing something that i'd hardly bother with in the first place.
 

D. R.

Noob
With the patch looming, this has to come to light as much as possible in hopes its addressed. Besides Necro's need for obvious buffs, I feel the only buffs the other two variations need are in regards to hitboxes and I hope they are seriously addressed.


This is just a recent example but this has been an issue for over 6 months now when trying to pressure characters using block strings with Shinnok:

  • F2(2) whiffing on small hurt box, crouched characters.
  • 1(1)2 whiffing point blank after a JiP.
  • 31(2) whiffing at point blank due to random pushback issues from breathing hitboxes.
  • Ji4~Tele~Ji1, 2(2) whiffing mainly in the corner during Impostor corner pressure.
It's one thing to be outplayed. It's another to lose because your characters hit boxes are incredibly inconsistent in certain match ups (Kano, D'Vorah, Kitana, etc). Somethings gotta give on one side of this problem: Increase Shinnok's hitboxes or increase the problematic characters hurtboxes.

#makenetherrealmgreatagain
 
With the patch looming, this has to come to light as much as possible in hopes its addressed. Besides Necro's need for obvious buffs, I feel the only buffs the other two variations need are in regards to hitboxes and I hope they are seriously addressed.


This is just a recent example but this has been an issue for over 6 months now when trying to pressure characters using block strings with Shinnok:

  • F2(2) whiffing on small hurt box, crouched characters.
  • 1(1)2 whiffing point blank after a JiP.
  • 31(2) whiffing at point blank due to random pushback issues from breathing hitboxes.
  • Ji4~Tele~Ji1, 2(2) whiffing mainly in the corner during Impostor corner pressure.
It's one thing to be outplayed. It's another to lose because your characters hit boxes are incredibly inconsistent in certain match ups (Kano, D'Vorah, Kitana, etc). Somethings gotta give on one side of this problem: Increase Shinnok's hitboxes or increase the problematic characters hurtboxes.

#makenetherrealmgreatagain
^THIS!!!!^ A thousand times!!!!!! @ArmedCalf please add this to the OP. It is like the most important thing ever!