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Question - TriBorg Cyrax & CSZ changes

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
Really all he needs is the drone and dive kick scaling removed. Anything else like DE 212 being +2 with less pushback and maybe DE F12 to pop up a bit higher to make midscreen combos easier is being generous imo.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
CSZ should have B1 connect with freeze along with F13 and B3. like i said months ago recovery should have got the shaft not startup on freeze. he could do a little more damage off drone combos as well, that should all be reasonable.


Cyrax needs, Combo off Shrapnel Port. better recovery off net and tele, Net should hold a bit longer an additional 10 frames would not hurt. After a bomb connects Cyrax should have the option to use Metered net. since he still has restrictions on how many bombs come out per combo all ive suggested seems fair. might be cool to have a human costume as well.
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
CSZ should have B1 connect with freeze along with F13 and B3. like i said months ago recovery should have got the shaft not startup on freeze. he could do a little more damage off drone combos as well, that should all be reasonable.


Cyrax needs, Combo off Shrapnel Port. better recovery off net and tele, Net should hold a bit longer an additional 10 frames would not hurt. After a bomb connects Cyrax should have the option to use Metered net. since he still has restrictions on how many bombs come out per combo all ive suggested seems fair. might be cool to have a human costume as well.
Imo if CSZ can get b1 iceball so should smoke but that's a personal gripe of mine. I feel the borgs should be universal in comboing the moves that they share but that's just me.

That metered net idea is a really cool one though. Even though Cyrax builds hella meter he also has to spend it to remain safe so making the choice mid combo is meaningful.
 

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Lowkey all I want for CSZ is a little bit more plus frames, a decent mid or just buff f4, and better startup frames on Ice ball at least.
 
He's the only Cyborg who doesn't recapture/restand/launch off of F13 meterlessly. There are other things I'd like to see as well, but if nothing else aside from that changed I wouldn't complain.

1) Dive Kicks / Drone Summons not scaling the damage during combos. Drone Buffs do increase damage, but with the scaling of summoning them/transitioning to the corner it evens out or is even less than the combo would normally do. This doesn't appear to be the case with any other character. Could you imagine if Sonya for instance had her damage scaled immensely by doing Grenades during a combo?

2) A somewhat safe Mid Option off of F4. Across the board for all the Cyborgs

3) A slight damage buff. Cyber Sub Zero doesn't feel much different than his original. Mid Screen BnB's do roughly 20-25% while corner combos do upwards of 40 under the most ideal bomb mix ups. I wouldn't request a lot, 3-5% would be just fine.

Anything else I feel is really more of a luxury buff than a needed one. If we're honest, this character has some of the best mobility in game. His corner mix ups are honest. Stop typing your response. I don't mean honest in the sense you do. I mean more so that the CSZ needs to make a read/guess what his opponent will do on wake up and adjust his/her set up accordingly. Outside of general Bomb/Grab anyway. For more on this, I consult my teammate @RM Ree

Luxury Buffs

1) Less Recovery/More Hit Advantage off of 1112. If not to pre-patch standards then just by a little.

2) Ex Ice Ball aka Uni Beam soaking at least 1 Projectile. I feel as though that is a fair request since it is just as punishable on block.

3) Ex Dive Kick being safe. This one isn't really needed I just felt like having 3 things to put down on each list.
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
H
3) A slight damage buff. Cyber Sub Zero doesn't feel much different than his original. Mid Screen BnB's do roughly 20-25% while corner combos do upwards of 40 under the most ideal bomb mix ups. I wouldn't request a lot, 3-5% would be just fine.
Mid screen with drone buff I can get a consistent 30% and in the corner about 33-37% depending on how long the DE Iceball ticks for and that's without bomb setups. I'd appreciate a small damage buff but damage is there.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
2) A somewhat safe Mid Option off of F4. Across the board for all the Cyborgs
i agree with all your suggestions, just want to say off this one - F4 is fine and I don't believe it needs extra options, but for 3 variations its like their only real mid - could we please make it so it can't be lowprofiled?

And to the people who always inevitably say it doesn't get low profiled - well it actually does, but even if you are right, then it should be a problem lower the hitbox then slightly right? if it already low crushes, shouldn't be an issue
 
I don't necessarily think F4 needs more options. I just find it interesting that his only reliable mid, which admittedly has decent range & fast start up. Is also -14 on block, and it's only extension is a Mid - High that can be combo punished universally on reaction. Especially when it can barely (Some may disagree) be Hit Confirmed.

Smoke is the exception in that he can F4D12? Which launches, but is also -13 on block.


If anything, I would make F4 something along the lines of -9 or -10. Still punishable, and combo punishable by some (Liu Kang, Tremor, Tri Borg) But at least a little more safe.


Note: As far as the damage mentioned earlier. I did forget to take into account NOT summoning drones during a combo when I thought of the damage values. So, most of his starters do lead to roughly 28% and a corner carry on average. Though a few small percents more would be nice, considering he'd either have to commit to the b3U4 or B3 ice ball mid screen, spend meter on F13, or get a punish off of 111.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Imo if CSZ can get b1 iceball so should smoke but that's a personal gripe of mine. I feel the borgs should be universal in comboing the moves that they share but that's just me.

That metered net idea is a really cool one though. Even though Cyrax builds hella meter he also has to spend it to remain safe so making the choice mid combo is meaningful.
you are right, and i agree they should all get the same treatment, and B1 is combo-able with Cyrax and Sektor and sektor having is the more important one to look at since he is the best of the borgs right now. right after patch when they added startup frames to CSZ Freeze i freaked out, i couldn't understand why they wouldn't add those 5 frames to Recovery to take care of the machine gunning of freeze. even with all the sugesstions i have made, all the problems people had with CSZ would still be taken care of while allowing us to possibly see him closer to the top of majors. 1. no more machine gunning freeze, (changing startup to recovery would fix that as well and allow his B1/F13/B3/1/11 to connect with freeze meterless like it should) 2. His dive kicks are hella negative on block, and there is no need to worrie about them anymore. 3. his airborne F2 into B3D4 has a huge gap and can be avoided and should stay that way.

The way i see it with Cyrax is he need some help against the better of the cast, and having Combo off of his Tele could help do just that, along with having Metered net in combos even after a bomb connects. hell keep the bomb limitations just give back the diversity in combos and more versatility with his wakeup options. his bs tele is very punishable see able and readable moreso than any other move that the top 5 have imo. it only does 11% thats pretty weak for a bar. one more thing for cyrax, i have noticed with my long commitment with Cyrax that he struggles against characters with fast frames, basically 33 variations around 23 characters out neutral him, what i have used and im sure many others have used to make his combos safe for no meter since we have to save that bar instead of blowing it on EX buzzsaw to just make it the opponents turn cuz lets face it they are faster is, normal buzzsaw which is -8 and there is plenty characters that can punish that move withought alot of thought. if that could be made -7 that would be great as well. and that net has to last a bit longer not as long as before but not as fast as now, its dumb to have to RC for every combo after net, and it would be nice to be able to convert off of a well placed full screen net. and it could be a bit less negative on block, i don't think every move in the game should punish it after they take a swig from there coke.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
I'm thinking Triborg was released as this awesome character so that people just buy him. They knew ppl would bitch and they had a nice little Fuck-You...I mean a nice little Patch....ready to fuck him over.

Hell, to get ~34% with CSZ in a combo you need 2 drones ready (+ a bar if you want to do F13 or B1).
They arent going to change all the things people want so if I could get JUST 1 thing for CSZ, it would be his original Iceball. This would make F13 & B1-Iceball connect and would up his zoning a bit. Fuck it at this point, I can live with the whiffed dive kick and drone summon scaling even if it's the dumbest fucking thing ever...:confused:
 

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
Mid screen with drone buff I can get a consistent 30% and in the corner about 33-37% depending on how long the DE Iceball ticks for and that's without bomb setups. I'd appreciate a small damage buff but damage is there.
Finally someone who actually takes advantage of drones
 

The Abbot

Unit LK-52O
The use of drone is extremely under utilized and giving it some frames on block would give players more of a reason to use drone as well. I can get 44% in the corner with 1bar&1drone if I hit the set up.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I'm thinking Triborg was released as this awesome character so that people just buy him. They knew ppl would bitch and they had a nice little Fuck-You...I mean a nice little Patch....ready to fuck him over.

Hell, to get ~34% with CSZ in a combo you need 2 drones ready (+ a bar if you want to do F13 or B1).
They arent going to change all the things people want so if I could get JUST 1 thing for CSZ, it would be his original Iceball. This would make F13 & B1-Iceball connect and would up his zoning a bit. Fuck it at this point, I can live with the whiffed dive kick and drone summon scaling even if it's the dumbest fucking thing ever...:confused:
yeah he needs his Freeze to start 5 frames faster, then make Recovery 5 frames longer, that will keep him from spamming it hella but fix his Freeze starters like: F13/B1/1/11/B3 Honestly CSZ would be very strong, but he is cool and deserves this, it would not hurt to give him viable starters again. this BS where he has to Try to land only 111 or B2 which depletes his Stamina, or B3U4 which is absurdly punishable on block is not cool when so many characters have very easy ways to open up others safely or without meter.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
yeah he needs his Freeze to start 5 frames faster, then make Recovery 5 frames longer, that will keep him from spamming it hella but fix his Freeze starters like: F13/B1/1/11/B3 Honestly CSZ would be very strong, but he is cool and deserves this, it would not hurt to give him viable starters again. this BS where he has to Try to land only 111 or B2 which depletes his Stamina, or B3U4 which is absurdly punishable on block is not cool when so many characters have very easy ways to open up others safely or without meter.
Ah yes I forgot about the longer recovery. I'm ok with that also!
The strict 111-iceball is also idiotic.

Interesting you would use B2 and B3U4 midscreen? My midscreen meterless at this point are 111-ice, F4-ice (rare), B3-ice. Anything else, I need meter.
I use B2 for corner shenanigans or as an AA while in midscreen
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Ah yes I forgot about the longer recovery. I'm ok with that also!
The strict 111-iceball is also idiotic.

Interesting you would use B2 and B3U4 midscreen? My midscreen meterless at this point are 111-ice, F4-ice (rare), B3-ice. Anything else, I need meter.
I use B2 for corner shenanigans or as an AA while in midscreen
i thought B3 into normal freeze can be blocked on hit at max range. which is where i mostly use it with Cyrax, so i fugured you would have to use B3 the same way, since they made it start up slower after 3-29 patch
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
I think all of triborgs vari's should have the f42 string.
F4d12 is kind of a smoke specific thing but f42 could be universal
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
i thought B3 into normal freeze can be blocked on hit at max range. which is where i mostly use it with Cyrax, so i fugured you would have to use B3 the same way, since they made it start up slower after 3-29 patch
nope, with CSZ it works from what I can see.