AmenI know this going to offend a lot of people but I honestly don't give a Donkey's hoop on how you feel.
The reason I think it will offend because I'm constantly seen these "3 points of reason" be mentioned a lot.
To keep this thread focused on the topic I ain't going to name any MKX characters or players but I will use MK9 and Injustice characters as examples.
You ready?
Don't care if you're not going to say them in anyway.
So these are the 3 common invalid reasons people use to justify why their characters are not viable, not top tier, does not need nerfs, needs buffs or makes players think they are "just that damn good"
1. You never see this character win a major or place Top 8.
This one is the age old excuse to justify there character, there could many factors why you have not seen or rarely see this character top 8.
Is the character being used correctly, is there enough players representing this character at its highest level, are they just genuinely being outplayed before top 8, does the character require more work to learn(oh boy we'll get back this one), unlucky bracketology and so on.
The biggest example to this is DJT winning with Cyrax at MK9 honestly I'm not sure if was first major Cyrax won but people sure as hell used that before Denzell won with Cyrax at Evo as a common point of reason why Cyrax is fine .
It took him not 1 Evo, not 2 Evo's but 3 EVO's to win with the character!
3 Evo's is a long ass time which compliment the points I gave above.
But of course people still had an OS they liked to use to defend that and it's.....
2. There is only 1 player placing/winning consistently when nobody else is.
Ohhhhh pleeeease stop!
Argument 1 I can at least see people believing it's a legit reason, but this point of reason just reeks of desperation that people use to keep a character protected from the nerf hammer.
Honestly with NRS backtracking of over nerfs I don't fully blame them but in a logical World I refuse to believe this is a legit excuse.
First and foremost I never discredit the players ability, the reason why DJT was the only one to win a major with Cyrax is because he fully understood how the character worked, moved and understood all the MUs along side with his godlike personal skills like pattern spotting, reactions, space control and resource management. So this is not to take away any credit from the players who are monsters with these characters but to look at it from a logical standpoint.
Just because YOU are not doing all that good with the character and a top player it does not give you the right to use this reason as a defence option.
All my points from reason one follows here but you have to be foolish to think somebody is winning or coming close to winning majors with a mid tier character at a consistent rate.
Just because the player is super good does not mean the character is not super good .
Top tier player + top tier character = ???
But hay that's what makes these guys so much better than the rest, it's that these players have the ability to see what makes there own a top tier character choice and how the style compliments them so they can fully use the tools to their advantage.
But back to the question why are we only seen 1 person place consistently?
I feel it's due to NRS tournament scene not living long enough, player bases dying off as the game continues and most importantly our scene is small as shit!!!!
It's true, this can't be denied.
Although we are successfully growing with each game, we are still a small scene looking from the eyes of Japenese games, there is nothing wrong with either as we are still young and fresh out of the womb since 2011 when Japenese games have being alive at a constant competitive standpoint since the 90s.
Japanese games fighting Games gains competition from the entire World while NRS games so far only pro dominantly appeals to NA (which can and will improve) with a fair share of EU and decent splashes of players from other parts of the World but nothing drastic.
Back to my point let's take Evo numbers. MKX 707 vs SF 5600 (note: I'm not knocking MKX and I think we did super good plus I also don't think it's fair to compare these on which game is better because NRS does not have the legacy yet, but for my example to work I need to compare them from this perspective)
I'm sure if we had that amount of numbers we be seen more one player be a threat with that character, although I don't fully follow the SF scene too much but I can bet my balls if you ask who is a viable threat with "insert here" at a major (twist: I got no balls, ....Double twist I do they are just twisted...twice) you will get more than one answer, because the scene and legacy is so big it's improbable not to be.
Hell you would even see mid tier characters in MKX place more if that was the case I bet.
I'll just close this one out by saying if player A fights Player B who has equal skill and Player A plays an overpowered top tier character while Player B plays a mid tier char and they both at a FT10 daily for a whole year who do you think will take it? Player A and I would say by a convincing mergin.
Note:by Overpowered I mean who has the slight edge over nearly everyone
3. My character is too hard to play
I told you I'll get back to this
I'll keep this one short as it appears a wrote a mother fudging Essay for reason 2 (lol sorry)
We've heard this with Kabal, we've heard this with Skarlet, we've heard this with Zod, we've heard this with Flash and we're damn sure hearing it more than ever now.
"Uhhh, My character too hard"
I find this one more adorable than irritating, but c'mon we know this can't be an excuse lol
My counter to this point of reason is if somebody can or has viably proven this character can played at a practical level then the character is viable and should be treated like other characters.
Practical being the keyword there , as it could be possible that a character is actually too hard but I've yet to see it and it certainly not a thing in MKX.
Just to not sound like hypocrite for using this in reason A, it can be a factor for not seen a Character win as early as other characters because they require strict execution and execution requires practice and practice requires time.
I just don't believe this can be a reason of justification at all.
I'll finish this out by taking something that you can make as a credible point to this so I can flip it right back in your smug face
You could say if Player A and Player B are equally skilled and they both play over powered S tier characters, Player As character is super easy to play and Player Bs character requires A LOT of execution to play in a daily FT10 for a year who wins? Player A right and probably by a decent length too.
But what if they do the same for Year 2 you will drastically see the scores even up to the point of of back and forward.
But here is the reality we talking about nerfing S tiers that are overpowered and if NRS was to take "character too hard" as a legit reason not to nerf Player Bs character and they nerf Player As character and then they run a daily FT10 for a year again now who's the one that's winning? Exactly
You will then be seeing Characters who where too hard to play now dominate the scene.
If you feel you can win easier by playing the easier character go for it, but you should always judge a character by the tools they got which judges the character by MUs which judges the character in viability which is what truly matters.
So stop trying to overwhelm Paulo with cuteness this is not a legit Reason your character should get special treatment.
I bet some of you are pissed huh?
You can invite me to 1v1 pick a low tier beat me 10-0 in a FT10 and teabag me to oblivion till I fly back up in my Mothers Womb but it won't change shit, it will prove you're the better player than me and also how quite childish you are but it won't change my opinion.
So you can entertain me in the comment section, let the thread die off, insult my spelling and grammar because, post TLDR memes, post things that I have covered as a counter because you didn't read the whole thing (inevitable), see a reputable poster/ player argue against me so you can keep liking his comment so this "dummy OP looks wronger" or point out that I weirdly used the word "womb" twice
Haha it's up to you.
All I ask (even though somebody will) is to try not bring MKX players or character community's to avoid getting off topic.
This thread was honestly made with no player or community in mind so this is a subliminal blow up. Thank you.
Side question how many characters did I use on the word character alone?
Look at it like an optional meeting that is not forcing you to join it
That was actually funny
Good thing he said Nevermind. Being that the guy asked to open up a parking spot, but one was already open and he had not seen it yet, it is very likely that the weather cleared up coincidentally in the area the spot was already available.
I know this going to offend a lot of people but I honestly don't give a Donkey's hoop on how you feel.
The reason I think it will offend because I'm constantly seen these "3 points of reason" be mentioned a lot.
To keep this thread focused on the topic I ain't going to name any MKX characters or players but I will use MK9 and Injustice characters as examples.
You ready?
Don't care if you're not going to say them in anyway.
So these are the 3 common invalid reasons people use to justify why their characters are not viable, not top tier, does not need nerfs, needs buffs or makes players think they are "just that damn good"
1. You never see this character win a major or place Top 8.
This one is the age old excuse to justify there character, there could many factors why you have not seen or rarely see this character top 8.
Is the character being used correctly, is there enough players representing this character at its highest level, are they just genuinely being outplayed before top 8, does the character require more work to learn(oh boy we'll get back this one
The biggest example to this is DJT winning with Cyrax at MK9 honestly I'm not sure if was first major Cyrax won but people sure as hell used that before Denzell won with Cyrax at Evo as a common point of reason why Cyrax is fine .
It took him not 1 Evo, not 2 Evo's but 3 EVO's to win with the character!
3 Evo's is a long ass time which compliment the points I gave above.
But of course people still had an OS they liked to use to defend that and it's.....
2. There is only 1 player placing/winning consistently when nobody else is.
Ohhhhh pleeeease stop!
Argument 1 I can at least see people believing it's a legit reason, but this point of reason just reeks of desperation that people use to keep a character protected from the nerf hammer.
Honestly with NRS backtracking of over nerfs I don't fully blame them but in a logical World I refuse to believe this is a legit excuse.
First and foremost I never discredit the players ability, the reason why DJT was the only one to win a major with Cyrax is because he fully understood how the character worked, moved and understood all the MUs along side with his godlike personal skills like pattern spotting, reactions, space control and resource management. So this is not to take away any credit from the players who are monsters with these characters but to look at it from a logical standpoint.
Just because YOU are not doing all that good with the character and a top player it does not give you the right to use this reason as a defence option.
All my points from reason one follows here but you have to be foolish to think somebody is winning or coming close to winning majors with a mid tier character at a consistent rate.
Just because the player is super good does not mean the character is not super good .
Top tier player + top tier character = ???
But hay that's what makes these guys so much better than the rest, it's that these players have the ability to see what makes there own a top tier character choice and how the style compliments them so they can fully use the tools to their advantage.
But back to the question why are we only seen 1 person place consistently?
I feel it's due to NRS tournament scene not living long enough, player bases dying off as the game continues and most importantly our scene is small as shit!!!!
It's true, this can't be denied.
Although we are successfully growing with each game, we are still a small scene looking from the eyes of Japenese games, there is nothing wrong with either as we are still young and fresh out of the womb since 2011 when Japenese games have being alive at a constant competitive standpoint since the 90s.
Japanese games fighting Games gains competition from the entire World while NRS games so far only pro dominantly appeals to NA (which can and will improve) with a fair share of EU and decent splashes of players from other parts of the World but nothing drastic.
Back to my point let's take Evo numbers. MKX 707 vs SF 5600 (note: I'm not knocking MKX and I think we did super good plus I also don't think it's fair to compare these on which game is better because NRS does not have the legacy yet, but for my example to work I need to compare them from this perspective)
I'm sure if we had that amount of numbers we be seen more one player be a threat with that character, although I don't fully follow the SF scene too much but I can bet my balls if you ask who is a viable threat with "insert here" at a major (twist: I got no balls
Hell you would even see mid tier characters in MKX place more if that was the case I bet.
I'll just close this one out by saying if player A fights Player B who has equal skill and Player A plays an overpowered top tier character while Player B plays a mid tier char and they both at a FT10 daily for a whole year who do you think will take it? Player A and I would say by a convincing mergin.
Note:by Overpowered I mean who has the slight edge over nearly everyone
3. My character is too hard to play
I told you I'll get back to this
I'll keep this one short as it appears a wrote a mother fudging Essay for reason 2 (lol sorry)
We've heard this with Kabal, we've heard this with Skarlet, we've heard this with Zod, we've heard this with Flash and we're damn sure hearing it more than ever now.
"Uhhh, My character too hard"
I find this one more adorable than irritating, but c'mon we know this can't be an excuse lol
My counter to this point of reason is if somebody can or has viably proven this character can played at a practical level then the character is viable and should be treated like other characters.
Practical being the keyword there , as it could be possible that a character is actually too hard but I've yet to see it and it certainly not a thing in MKX.
Just to not sound like hypocrite for using this in reason A, it can be a factor for not seen a Character win as early as other characters because they require strict execution and execution requires practice and practice requires time.
I just don't believe this can be a reason of justification at all.
I'll finish this out by taking something that you can make as a credible point to this so I can flip it right back in your smug face
You could say if Player A and Player B are equally skilled and they both play over powered S tier characters, Player As character is super easy to play and Player Bs character requires A LOT of execution to play in a daily FT10 for a year who wins? Player A right and probably by a decent length too.
But what if they do the same for Year 2 you will drastically see the scores even up to the point of of back and forward.
But here is the reality we talking about nerfing S tiers that are overpowered and if NRS was to take "character too hard" as a legit reason not to nerf Player Bs character and they nerf Player As character and then they run a daily FT10 for a year again now who's the one that's winning? Exactly
You will then be seeing Characters who where too hard to play now dominate the scene.
If you feel you can win easier by playing the easier character go for it, but you should always judge a character by the tools they got which judges the character by MUs which judges the character in viability which is what truly matters.
So stop trying to overwhelm Paulo with cuteness this is not a legit Reason your character should get special treatment.
I bet some of you are pissed huh?
You can invite me to 1v1 pick a low tier beat me 10-0 in a FT10 and teabag me to oblivion till I fly back up in my Mothers Womb but it won't change shit, it will prove you're the better player than me and also how quite childish you are but it won't change my opinion.
So you can entertain me in the comment section, let the thread die off, insult my spelling and grammar because, post TLDR memes, post things that I have covered as a counter because you didn't read the whole thing (inevitable), see a reputable poster/ player argue against me so you can keep liking his comment so this "dummy OP looks wronger" or point out that I weirdly used the word "womb" twice
Haha it's up to you.
All I ask (even though somebody will) is to try not bring MKX players or character community's to avoid getting off topic.
This thread was honestly made with no player or community in mind so this is a subliminal blow up. Thank you.
Side question how many characters did I use on the word character alone?
. But you're right dude, hopefully within the next few games we "as a community" will evolve and stop the complaining altogether. Every NRS title they are giving us more viability within their rosters and I hope we get to that "balanced" game in the near future where every character has the ability to win.
This is deceptive. His ticks being escapable via OS may have been in the game since day one but we didn't know about OSing day one nor, IIRC, were special moves EXd when OSing on day one. The regular version always came out I believe. So that was legitimately not an exploitable weakness for the first several months of the game's life. After that many people weren't bothering with the OSes because of NRS' obvious stance on them, that being they're all bugs and will be removed. Your point is taken but it was not the best example.
That's because some of the best posters on this site are in this thread at the same time. We were attracted to the original OP, which was a breath of fresh air compared to what has been out there lately.Now I feel a slight bit bad for being such a snarky fuck in the OP now
I was expecting at least 2 people by now too aggressively tell me how I wrong I am
But everybody seems cool even the ones that somewhat disagree
Ah well
You're all still a pack of knobs
I'm not sure if you the last part is aimed at me making clear cut opinions or people making clear cut opinions on who is better because of said character but I'll reply to both.
I believe there is no such thing as "too hard", FG history has proven this to be true. A good example is Soul Calibur V Alpha Patrokolos character. He was clearly top tier and everybody agreed he would be #1 BUT he was too hard. He actually was. Even developers admitted it was his planned "weakness". His entire game was about justframe over justframe and you couldnt even pull of basic combo or punishment without doing multiple justframes. And without justframes his damage was miserable and he got punished for screwing up. So everyone was absolutely sure that he will NEVER be played at highest level and win anything. Still everybody was wrong. It took about 3 or 4 years for this character to be truly mastered and finally start winning, and Im taking about insane execution levels.
Most every other community but NRS go by total of MU numbers (i.e. a game with 10 characters a character with even MUs with everyone would have a 50). They have less dedicated downplayers and more accurate use of SRK tier ranking to get agreeable figures within a small margin. Capcom devs have said they refer to these figures for some consideration for balancing.
Bro, after a fucking argument I had in a thread the other day because someone (multiple people) denied that there was such a thing as "talent" (seriously... to the point that I could probably fly like a bird, born aloft on the winds of I just WORKED HARD ENOUGH), reading an intelligent post someone obviously put some thought into and was written by a grown adult with the capacity for logic and fully functional grammar made me feel all warm inside, lol.Now I feel a slight bit bad for being such a snarky fuck in the OP now
I was expecting at least 2 people by now too aggressively tell me how I wrong I am
But everybody seems cool even the ones that somewhat disagree
Ah well
You're all still a pack of knobs
Now I feel a slight bit bad for being such a snarky fuck in the OP now
I was expecting at least 2 people by now too aggressively tell me how I wrong I am
But everybody seems cool even the ones that somewhat disagree
Ah well
You're all still a pack of knobs
I think I2 will probably be game.Nice post @IrishMantis, I agree with it 100% and sadly have fallen in line with the complaining and whining bunch myself
Cheers bro I appreciate it
Well, just between us (and the rest of the thread, lol) I'm a huge fan of yours because I find you entertaining as fuck, lol. So mission accomplished.
