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Question - Grandmaster Deleted Account.

IF there is One Last Patch, What Buff/Fix Does Grandmaster Need Most?

  • Fix the Female Hit Box Issue for him and ALL Characters

  • Give him a Universal Mid Screen Quicker Low Starter which hit Confirms into Ice Ball

  • Fix Phasing through the Clone

  • Give him Faster Pokes

  • Give him more Chip Damage Options

  • Something Else

  • Nothing he is Fine as he is


Results are only viewable after voting.

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Its fair thats why. Sub-zero is top 7 variation in the game. Not top 7 characters...no no. Just GM. Get put in the corner as Kitana v GM.

Eat tha mix, Become tha mix, Fear tha mix, Praise tha mix, Rage at the Armor breaking (SAFE) shatter combos into stupid dmg into another 50/50 armor breaking ice-clone mix-up,.......post on TYM(He sobad cause his mid scrween cowmbos be ass and freemales are smwaller then men, like yeah Cassie shoupd have a hitbox the size of Goro, but wait I freeze, 50/50, armor-break, vortex(yes that corner shit is a vortex, it starts and ends with clone into a 50/50 that leads to the same setup.....vortex.).

At least his Faction kill pose is the weakest thing I've ever seen. Flicks his wrist into the air and poses like some kinda rainbow donkey. Him and Lebron are obviously gay for each other, and Kitana needs a god damn OH.

*Exhales*
Fuck Canada. Fuck GM. Long Live Free Speech. Amerika tha Brueatiful.

Whatever Brady says

/thread

/I love Canada. Ya'll gave us Drake though so for that....Kill yourselves cause thats what he's doing to us.

/Ya'll also gave us Rocky and Bullwrinkle. So thanks for that.


/Thread:eek:
Almost all of that isn't accurate
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
The problem with Sub is very simple. He is designed way too much with GM's tools in mind, instead of the other way around.

My proposal:

-Remove projectile absorb on normal clone
-Normal clone cooldown for 3 seconds after any situation clone is removed from play, even after dissipating on its own
-Normal clone recovers 7 frames faster
-b1 has 5 frames more blockstun
-b12 has 5 frames more blockstun
-1 has 2 frames less recovery
-11 has 4 frames less recovery
-b33d4 has 8 frames less recovery and extra pushback on block
-d3 is 7f
-both versions of hammer are 5 frames faster
-Normal hammer recovers 3 frames faster
-EX hammer recovers 8 frames slower and doesn't pushback on block
-both versions of parry recover faster when a projectile hits them by shattering the shield
-Successful parries add ice aura
-Remove extra scaling in aura
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
the reason i choose Fix phasing through clone, is because that is a real problem with him, and note i was a MK9 sub zero player he was my 2nd. On this game his clone does not work the way it did on MK9 so i opted to not use him this time around. As for why I don't think fixing the female hitbox issues is a priority is simple. Everyone has this problem, it's not exclusive to him alone, therefore it's not a Sub Zero problem it's a Game mechanic problem that probably should but will most likely not be fixed.

I wanted Clone to stay on block, and zero moves should go through it! Short of that I will never use him as a main. Don't get me wrong he is still good, but to me on those bad matchups it is so favoring the other character thats it's a glaring disadvantage like Alien vs Sub scary af.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
The problem with Sub is very simple. He is designed way too much with GM's tools in mind, instead of the other way around.

My proposal:

-Remove projectile absorb on normal clone
-Normal clone cooldown for 3 seconds after any situation clone is removed from play, even after dissipating on its own
-Normal clone recovers 7 frames faster
-b1 has 5 frames more blockstun
-b12 has 5 frames more blockstun
-1 has 2 frames less recovery
-11 has 4 frames less recovery
-b33d4 has 8 frames less recovery and extra pushback on block
-d3 is 7f
-both versions of hammer are 5 frames faster
-Normal hammer recovers 3 frames faster
-EX hammer recovers 8 frames slower and doesn't pushback on block
-both versions of parry recover faster when a projectile hits them by shattering the shield
-Successful parries add ice aura
-Remove extra scaling in aura
those are very good sugestions and actually would imo make Unbreakable rise above, with aura links with that less recovery and blockstun on those strings you have listed. but there is a few things i think that would need to be addressed further. like clone not going away on block(if we gonna remove projectile absorb then go away on block should be removed as compensation) also no moves in the game should ever go through clone. and ice wall or parry in unbreakable should have a bigger hitbox so opponent can't use OH's and crossovers to basically disregard it.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
those are very good sugestions and actually would imo make Unbreakable rise above, with aura links with that less recovery and blockstun on those strings you have listed. but there is a few things i think that would need to be addressed further. like clone not going away on block(if we gonna remove projectile absorb then go away on block should be removed as compensation) also no moves in the game should ever go through clone. and ice wall or parry in unbreakable should have a bigger hitbox so opponent can't use OH's and crossovers to basically disregard it.
There's a reason no other MK game did the whole projectile absorb thing on clone. It's already very powerful as a whole. The projectile absorb makes it so that Sub manhandles characters that don't have a solid check to clone other than single hit projectile. My other changes are with this one in mind. Faster recovery, which could help corner setups too. Better frame data so that his offense isn't just clone reliant. Two other variations that have improved uses thanks to universal buffs on top of their specific changes. Meterless defensive options. It all creates a better designed character.

I will say that clone not going away on block anymore would be a viable change, so long as the projectile absorb goes away.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Funny how its ok for Mileena, Alien, and Demo Sonya to just fuck everyone but can remain unfucked and that's ok.
I've always been vocal about how much I dislike Mileena and Demo Sonya, especially Mileena. In fact I would LOVE if they all got bodied in the next patch like the all the ex top tiers were.
 

flappysamyhamy

EMPEROR FLAPPY / EGGPLANT
If it was up to me,
Buffs: B1 made 9f, f4 made 10f, d1 made 7f, Can now combo males and females the same, Less recovery on whiffed f4, regular db1 -6 on block, Consistency on launch height from hitting a crouching or standing opponent, Reduced negative frames on certain strings like 123,114, 24, b33d4, also 114 should keep the opponent standing and be special cancelable, This would give him a 7f hit-confirmable punishing tool which would really help him out, b1 is 11f as of now and is his best hit-confirmable punish but does not work well for tight punishes.

Nerfs: Less damage output on shatter combos, Reduced hitbox on ji1, Clone disappears after a teched grab, Enhanced ice burst to be made -13 so every character can consistently punish it, Less blockstun on ex iceball, Reduced hitbox on ji3, Downward clone toss should not grant block advantage.

The reason I want to nerf his air attacks is because the character already controls the ground with clone. The ability to jump around like a monkey without being anti-aired bothers me.

Overall I feel like this would create a more complete sub zero, the buffs would help him out in tougher matchups, and the nerfs might make him less overwhelming in matchups he dominates.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
If it was up to me,
Buffs: B1 made 9f, f4 made 10f, d1 made 7f, Can now combo males and females the same, Less recovery on whiffed f4, regular db1 -6 on block, Consistency on launch height from hitting a crouching or standing opponent, Reduced negative frames on certain strings like 123,114, 24, b33d4, also 114 should keep the opponent standing and be special cancelable, This would give him a 7f hit-confirmable punishing tool which would really help him out, b1 is 11f as of now and is his best hit-confirmable punish but does not work well for tight punishes.

Nerfs: Less damage output on shatter combos, Reduced hitbox on ji1, Clone disappears after a teched grab, Enhanced ice burst to be made -13 so every character can consistently punish it, Less blockstun on ex iceball, Reduced hitbox on ji3, Downward clone toss should not grant block advantage.

The reason I want to nerf his air attacks is because the character already controls the ground with clone. The ability to jump around like a monkey without being anti-aired bothers me.

Overall I feel like this would create a more complete sub zero, the buffs would help him out in tougher matchups, and the nerfs might make him less overwhelming in matchups he dominates.
A 10 frame F4 would be so awesome. 7F D1 is kind of a must. It's really stupid that Sub, Kang, and Tremor are the only ones with 9F pokes.
 

ryublaze

Noob
A nerf to the top tier, a 7f poke and buff to Cryo/Unbreakable imo

I think it'd be cool if Cryo's hammer was faster and if the air hammer was an unblockable ground pound. Unbreakable parry could have faster startup/recovery and parries projectiles too. I also kinda wish they initially made Ice Aura work like Tremor's flex move rather than reducing chip damage.
 

IsrA9x19

Noob
Thats easy

1:make the ex clone work properly that way you can get easily 36% 1bar combo punish
b12xxclone run b12iceball j1 242 run 1 run 123 slide
(example im not used to the numbers inputs it could be wrong)
this is not much to ask it actually how it should be

2:thats all....for grandmaster

the other two hmm i dont even know where to start
 

flappysamyhamy

EMPEROR FLAPPY / EGGPLANT
Thats easy

1:make the ex clone work properly that way you can get easily 36% 1bar combo punish
b12xxclone run b12iceball j1 242 run 1 run 123 slide
(example im not used to the numbers inputs it could be wrong)
this is not much to ask it actually how it should be

2:thats all....for grandmaster

the other two hmm i dont even know where to start
They already did that!
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
If it was up to me,
Buffs: B1 made 9f, f4 made 10f, d1 made 7f, Can now combo males and females the same, Less recovery on whiffed f4, regular db1 -6 on block, Consistency on launch height from hitting a crouching or standing opponent, Reduced negative frames on certain strings like 123,114, 24, b33d4, also 114 should keep the opponent standing and be special cancelable, This would give him a 7f hit-confirmable punishing tool which would really help him out, b1 is 11f as of now and is his best hit-confirmable punish but does not work well for tight punishes.

Nerfs: Less damage output on shatter combos, Reduced hitbox on ji1, Clone disappears after a teched grab, Enhanced ice burst to be made -13 so every character can consistently punish it, Less blockstun on ex iceball, Reduced hitbox on ji3, Downward clone toss should not grant block advantage.

The reason I want to nerf his air attacks is because the character already controls the ground with clone. The ability to jump around like a monkey without being anti-aired bothers me.

Overall I feel like this would create a more complete sub zero, the buffs would help him out in tougher matchups, and the nerfs might make him less overwhelming in matchups he dominates.
I quoted this post because what I want is very similar to what flappysamyhamy sad. I only will talk on universal and Grandmaster since it's the only one I have good knowledge on.
1. 112 string zero on block up from minus 9
2. 7 frame D1
3. Same 114 changes as above
4. 24 string now plus 2 on block up from minus 5
5. Reduced recovery frames on F4, 38 is retarded.

That's it
 

IsrA9x19

Noob
They already did that!
hmmm noup .... you can try it yourself dot b12exclone "omg it works" change your stance and it wont work how is that suppose to be "working proberly" you cant rely on it specially with characters like scorpion so you have to conform with 29% on punish combos ... and that is just one of the many issues the xiceclone has .
it is not asking for a 1frame 100% damage non sense OP thing is just asking for how it should be in the first place
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
For GM, it would need to fix ASAP its clone whiffs in some occasions, like in the 47% corner combo. When I successfully do this combo after the clone bomb, sometimes when I want to freeze the opponent, who, according to the game, ought to freeze ONCE, SZ WHIFFS, which prevents me to further the combo. The same happens sometimes when I try to avoid the opponents attacking me in the middle.

New inputs to give Sub Zero his own vortex. Everyone has his/her own vortex, but Subby is one of the very few not having it.

Last, but not least, they should make Subby a bit faster, because he already has a ton of openings for punishments.

:(

I main GMSZ. :)
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
@Tanno

I sympathize with whiffing issues but why would Sub need a vortex?

Also not many characters have a vortex, even fewer have a good one or a meterless one, I don't know what you are seeing when you say almost everyone has one.
For example, Raiden, Jason and Alien do have good vortexes, which make everyone having a hard time against them. Mileena has the best vortex, because she's so unpredictable. It's to not let anybody stand up to attack in the corners and to force them to keep defending for their lives.

Sub Zero has only 2-3 decent combos, and especially meterless, which make him more predictable to his opponents.

This is why.

I don't know about the other characters, but after seeing their matches, I think they already have many opportunities to attack, unlike Subby.

As for the technical parts there, I'm no expert like you guys, and especially Tom Brady and Madzin.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
For example, Raiden, Jason and Alien do have good vortexes, which make everyone having a hard time against them. Mileena has the best vortex, because she's so unpredictable. It's to not let anybody stand up to attack in the corners and to force them to keep defending for their lives.

Sub Zero has only 2-3 decent combos, and especially meterless, which make him more predictable to his opponents.

This is why.

I don't know about the other characters, but after seeing their matches, I think they already have many opportunities to attack, unlike Subby.

As for the technical parts there, I'm no expert like you guys, and especially Tom Brady and Madzin.
What is Mileena's vortex? Sub-Zero's offense is a 50/50, you can't predict it, you can only guess. His midscreen damage is low, but it is okay because of the corner carry, and that's really his goal- corner you. And to be fair, the corner is pretty bullshit, especially for characters without a meterless of safe option around the Klone. So he's fair. Sub-Zero's only fault is that he is fair. It's not that he is bad, or seriously lacking, it's just that there are like 8-10 dickhead characters that outshine everyone.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
His Grandmaster vortex is to corner the opponent and leave them in Klone Jail. It's a different type of vortex but a vortex nonetheless. Cryo it's his Cold Blooded string. Unbreakable.........

I must be crazy he only has 2 variations right??