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Question - Kotal Kahn Questions from someone who wants to pick up Kotal Kahn.

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
I main Shaolin KJ and was planning on adding smoke as a secondary but the nerfs made me so annoyed I dropped him... Kotal is someone I've always wanted to pick up and I finally have the time. So I'm wondering, which variation to start with? Along with any other general pointers from Kotal mains willing to help me out.
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
Kotal is the easiest character execution wise to pick up. Which means it should take you a couple days max to get used to his combos, strings, and pressure.
This means that you can focus most of your time on the meta behind the character, getting around his gaps, and his on the fly conversions (of which he has many).
If you need any help on his optimal combos, pressure, meta, or the like, feel free to PM me or if you're on PS4 in North America I'll be happy to spend a couple hours in practice with you.
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
Kotal is the easiest character execution wise to pick up. Which means it should take you a couple days max to get used to his combos, strings, and pressure.
This means that you can focus most of your time on the meta behind the character, getting around his gaps, and his on the fly conversions (of which he has many).
If you need any help on his optimal combos, pressure, meta, or the like, feel free to PM me or if you're on PS4 in North America I'll be happy to spend a couple hours in practice with you.
Thanks man. Sadly I'm on XB1 but that's good to know!
 

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
It's ok, there are other ways. I won't say go to the Kotal discussions cuz they are very tedious to read through.
Instead if you have any particular questions feel free to message me in a conversation and I will go over in detail any answers I can provide
 

xZoro

War God.
Honestly, Kotal is a piece of piss to learn.

Solid character though, you'll have loads of fun with him.

3 Tips, as thats the topic
1. Learn B1 Spacing and range
2. Learn Punishes and optimize them
3. Practice pokes vs certain characters and test the waters in situations.
 
I main Shaolin KJ and was planning on adding smoke as a secondary but the nerfs made me so annoyed I dropped him... Kotal is someone I've always wanted to pick up and I finally have the time. So I'm wondering, which variation to start with? Along with any other general pointers from Kotal mains willing to help me out.
Honestly since you play Kung Jin, I would say War God. Another spacing based, strong footsie variation with similiar range, albeit slower specials. It is the easiest variation to transition to and more forgiving if you find your self on the ground with meter to wake up with. Sun God would be my 2nd variation to dabble with due to the b1 shenanigans as CoRzz mentioned. However if you're great (or not so great) at blocking, won't rage from frequent losses, play risky, and want to dive right into the barebones of the Kahn, then there's nothing more satisfying than wins with Blood God. Good luck though
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
The hit advantage nerfs that hurt his vortex. He was fine as he was and NRS bent him over just because Cyrax and CSZ had some issues.
 

loogie

Noob
I don't know why Kotal (War God at least) is termed to be a footsie based character, he just b122s everything.. he would wakeup b122 everything basically!
YOu don't need to be footsie heavy to win with Kotal, that's why he is an easy pick for easy wins. the ultimate noob killer.

he's a mixup character in my opinion..

options off of b1 starters, assume opponent is blocking and has to guess the following:

b1, grab
b1, crutch slap (d1) into db2 or ex db1
b1, db2
b1, db1
b12, db2
b12, db1
b122, db2
b122, db1 (no gaps here - but good luck making the guesses from all these options)
then you have the TekkenMaster special with b122 ex sword toss (in the corner)
b13, db2
b13, db1

he has sooooooo many options off of this string..
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I don't know why Kotal (War God at least) is termed to be a footsie based character, he just b122s everything.. he would wakeup b122 everything basically!
YOu don't need to be footsie heavy to win with Kotal, that's why he is an easy pick for easy wins. the ultimate noob killer.

he's a mixup character in my opinion..

options off of b1 starters, assume opponent is blocking and has to guess the following:

b1, grab
b1, crutch slap (d1) into db2 or ex db1
b1, db2
b1, db1
b12, db2
b12, db1
b122, db2
b122, db1 (no gaps here - but good luck making the guesses from all these options)
then you have the TekkenMaster special with b122 ex sword toss (in the corner)
b13, db2
b13, db1

he has sooooooo many options off of this string..
And people have sooooo many options to deal with them. If you guess right on a War God mixup, chances are, you get a free punish. Kotal is ridiculously punishable on db1, db2 and EX db1 on block. You just have to take your character into the lab to see what you can punish db1 and db2 with on block as the block stun is kinda iffy.

If the Kotal player is staggering their b1, you can armor or poke if you have a relatively fast poke. Kotal is -2 after a blocked b1, so if he tries to do another one, anything that's 10 frames or faster will beat it.

Playing against Sun God? b1 ticks aren't the hardest thing to deal with. Hell, none of them are except for s1 ticks because people don't see it too much. But I was playing Jupiter last night as Sun God for a bit and the dude blew up the majority of my tick attempts because HE KNOWS THE MU. He was also blowing my War God up whenever he'd block db1/db2.

Kotal is a newb/scrub killer because said newbs/scrubs don't know the MU.

Oh, and Kotal doesn't have -any- options off of a b14 (you listed it as b13, but I know what you meant) as there is a fuckin' gap in everything he does afterwards on block. It doesn't matter what it is. The only exception may be b14~db1. I'm pretty sure there's a gap there, but I don't recall. So, don't 100% quote me on that.

A lot of complaints about Kotal stem from him getting "free footsies" because of b1 and probably d4. Kotal is certainly a pick up and play character, but he's not an "I Win" character against those who know the MU. Don't try and sell him as such. :| How he does against a casual player =/= how he does against a high level player.
 

loogie

Noob
And people have sooooo many options to deal with them. If you guess right on a War God mixup, chances are, you get a free punish. Kotal is ridiculously punishable on db1, db2 and EX db1 on block. You just have to take your character into the lab to see what you can punish db1 and db2 with on block as the block stun is kinda iffy.

If the Kotal player is staggering their b1, you can armor or poke if you have a relatively fast poke. Kotal is -2 after a blocked b1, so if he tries to do another one, anything that's 10 frames or faster will beat it.

Playing against Sun God? b1 ticks aren't the hardest thing to deal with. Hell, none of them are except for s1 ticks because people don't see it too much. But I was playing Jupiter last night as Sun God for a bit and the dude blew up the majority of my tick attempts because HE KNOWS THE MU. He was also blowing my War God up whenever he'd block db1/db2.

Kotal is a newb/scrub killer because said newbs/scrubs don't know the MU.

Oh, and Kotal doesn't have -any- options off of a b14 (you listed it as b13, but I know what you meant) as there is a fuckin' gap in everything he does afterwards on block. It doesn't matter what it is. The only exception may be b14~db1. I'm pretty sure there's a gap there, but I don't recall. So, don't 100% quote me on that.

A lot of complaints about Kotal stem from him getting "free footsies" because of b1 and probably d4. Kotal is certainly a pick up and play character, but he's not an "I Win" character against those who know the MU. Don't try and sell him as such. :| How he does against a casual player =/= how he does against a high level player.
yeah, he's a noob killer that's for sure.
it's a constant guess though.
vs certain characters his b1 is kinda plus :) like Sub Zero for example, he doesn't have a fast poke so a b1 which is a -2 can be followed up by a d1 .. but that's matchup specific i guess.
would you risk a wrong guess and eat his ex overhead for a 32% conversion?
 
And people have sooooo many options to deal with them. If you guess right on a War God mixup, chances are, you get a free punish. Kotal is ridiculously punishable on db1, db2 and EX db1 on block. You just have to take your character into the lab to see what you can punish db1 and db2 with on block as the block stun is kinda iffy.

If the Kotal player is staggering their b1, you can armor or poke if you have a relatively fast poke. Kotal is -2 after a blocked b1, so if he tries to do another one, anything that's 10 frames or faster will beat it.

Playing against Sun God? b1 ticks aren't the hardest thing to deal with. Hell, none of them are except for s1 ticks because people don't see it too much. But I was playing Jupiter last night as Sun God for a bit and the dude blew up the majority of my tick attempts because HE KNOWS THE MU. He was also blowing my War God up whenever he'd block db1/db2.

Kotal is a newb/scrub killer because said newbs/scrubs don't know the MU.

Oh, and Kotal doesn't have -any- options off of a b14 (you listed it as b13, but I know what you meant) as there is a fuckin' gap in everything he does afterwards on block. It doesn't matter what it is. The only exception may be b14~db1. I'm pretty sure there's a gap there, but I don't recall. So, don't 100% quote me on that.

A lot of complaints about Kotal stem from him getting "free footsies" because of b1 and probably d4. Kotal is certainly a pick up and play character, but he's not an "I Win" character against those who know the MU. Don't try and sell him as such. :| How he does against a casual player =/= how he does against a high level player.
Great points, but the same can be said for pretty much any MU. Just because there's options around it doesn't mean it's "not good" per se.

He still has options against their options. Personally, I love opponents who are quick to poke. That opens them up to exOH smash counter poke lol.

I'm sure you know this though. I only have a pocket Kotal.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
yeah, he's a noob killer that's for sure.
it's a constant guess though.
vs certain characters his b1 is kinda plus :) like Sub Zero for example, he doesn't have a fast poke so a b1 which is a -2 can be followed up by a d1 .. but that's matchup specific i guess.
would you risk a wrong guess and eat his ex overhead for a 32% conversion?
I wanna know who decided to give the man a 9
And people have sooooo many options to deal with them. If you guess right on a War God mixup, chances are, you get a free punish. Kotal is ridiculously punishable on db1, db2 and EX db1 on block. You just have to take your character into the lab to see what you can punish db1 and db2 with on block as the block stun is kinda iffy.

If the Kotal player is staggering their b1, you can armor or poke if you have a relatively fast poke. Kotal is -2 after a blocked b1, so if he tries to do another one, anything that's 10 frames or faster will beat it.

Playing against Sun God? b1 ticks aren't the hardest thing to deal with. Hell, none of them are except for s1 ticks because people don't see it too much. But I was playing Jupiter last night as Sun God for a bit and the dude blew up the majority of my tick attempts because HE KNOWS THE MU. He was also blowing my War God up whenever he'd block db1/db2.

Kotal is a newb/scrub killer because said newbs/scrubs don't know the MU.

Oh, and Kotal doesn't have -any- options off of a b14 (you listed it as b13, but I know what you meant) as there is a fuckin' gap in everything he does afterwards on block. It doesn't matter what it is. The only exception may be b14~db1. I'm pretty sure there's a gap there, but I don't recall. So, don't 100% quote me on that.

A lot of complaints about Kotal stem from him getting "free footsies" because of b1 and probably d4. Kotal is certainly a pick up and play character, but he's not an "I Win" character against those who know the MU. Don't try and sell him as such. :| How he does against a casual player =/= how he does against a high level player.
Not everyone can punish the 50/50's consistently, it's almost as bad as trying to punish a fully blocked exnutpunch. And I don't know how a character with some of the best pokes, a 9 frame mid that can be cancelled into 50/50 at 3 different spots, a nasty jump in, very good anti air and very good pressure won't do very well against high level players. I can definitely see a day one kotal beating high level players
 

omooba

fear the moobs
A. Shaolin isn't broke, very good but no where near broken.
B. Smoke received nerfs inadvertanltly because of the nerfs to Cyrax and CSZ and he is who I was referring to.
Oh thought he meant shaolin my bad. And he is broke but that's for another thread