Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Question - Cyrax NRS...why did you do this to Cyrax?

MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
STB Hellbringer said:
@esg jagged :DOGE
Click to expand...
xxFalcon Loverxx said:
@ESG Jagged Is @MadeOfMetal now. :DOGE
Click to expand...
Eddy Wang said:
@MadeOfMetal

NRS doesn't reward loyalists, Paulo nerfs bullshit when he sees it.


YOU RUINED IT:mad:
Click to expand...
well kitana and Mileena loyalists got rewarded, as well as Jason, Tekada, Jacqui, Ferra Torr, and Goro loyalists.

and yes he nerfs things they deem broken, they just do it in the wrong way, and hit the wrong things.

example, the corner for CSZ was supposed to nerf the HTB's and F2 was supposed to hit them correctly. i can still setup HTB into corner carry. Drop a metered Ice bomb, 28% into a ground freeze into another 50/50 28% a potential 56% plus the 24% leading to corner

i think he is fine. its just funny how they nerf to make things disappear and they still remain. kinda shows you how bad they are at balancing.

xxFalcon Loverxx said:
:DOGE
Click to expand...
STB Hellbringer said:
:DOGE
Click to expand...
xxFalcon Loverxx said:
:eek::DOGE
Click to expand...

LOL

well i gues ill be known as my older brother. fine with me.


as of know i am ESG jagged/Made of Metal

now that we got that out of the way.


JDM said:
I did a quick writeup of what I think about current Cyrax. And decent buffs for him:

My thoughts on the Current Cyrax:

After playing with and against Cyrax for a decent amount of time now, I can accurately gauge how bad his nerfs hurt him. IMO, the worst nerf of all was the capture state nerf for net. Now, you're throwing a very unsafe projectile that on trade, will likely not grant you a combo of more than ~20 percent without meter.This is even less if you want an "ok" setup for a bomb, which in reality most of his midscreen meterless setups are not very good anymore now that net misfires after a bomb comes out. Now, it's very hard to get a far bomb after a net on trade (if not usually impossible), and its noticeably difficult to get your normal bnb without run. This all comes together with a damage nerf on top of that, so you're only doing around ~33 percent meterless on an optimal hit. The next nerf that hurt badly was net misfiring after a bomb hits. I completely understand why they did this, as they clearly didn't wantto be able to loop the unblockable back into itself, and I guess they thought this would be the best way to mitigate that. I don't mind that. The reason this nerf hurts so badly, is because stray bombs cannot be converted into even okay damage for the most part. You usually get around ~20-25 into a bomb setup. WHICH IS STILL OKAY. The main problem with this nerf, is imo his best prepatch tool (besides maybe net), was EX bomb.
This move granted a combo on hit and ok pressure on block. However now you get very little damage for spending meter into a bomb setup. Note: none of these meterless bomb setups are very good, they usually get blown up by quick roll/backdash. Maybe something will come along later
that I'm not aware of right now, but right now I think they are very gimmicky. Now, to get decent damage midscreen and stay safe, you need to spend meter for EX buzzsaw, which you cannot hitconfirm for the most part. So you're spending meter on EX buzzsaw,and EX bombs no longer grant you decent combos/setups. I used to be able to end my strings in EX bombs (which could be armored/backdash, but was still a great option as it was + on block and could catch backdashes if you used far bomb) and get a full combo and a good setup afterward.However now I'm FORCED to use EX buzzsaw if I want to capture with net afterwards. There were other nerfs like hit advantages getting nerfed (2,1 no longer grants an unblockable setup after net, however I believe 2 does, but it's much stricter than prepatch), that all take its toll on Cyrax.But his main issue is the capture state on the net.


Also: His "unblockables" (which are his main meterless setups), while still in the game, have always been nothing more than a gimmick. B3D4 pseudo-unblockable has always had a static timing of low low overhead/instant low. With a decent amount of practice you should be blocking it relatively consistently, and the string is unsafe even with a bomb out.

I propose two changes to Cyrax to make him a decent mid tier character:
1: Revert the net change. His combos become impossible/very hard to do from trades or even from simple hits if he's not nearly point blank. The damage nerf was fine but both this and a damage nerf were far too much.
2: EX bomb no longer causes net to missfire. This buff would give Cyrax an ok neutral game again combined with his new ex teleport, seeing as how his net can't combo from mid/full screen on trade, and bombs grant very little damage/weak setups on hit.
EX should be able to loop back into a capture state at least once, since you're spending meter.

his major problems right now:

-His ground net setups have been nerfed a good amount
-His air net setups have been nerfed severely (cannot do it after a normal or EX bomb, net does not hold long enough to actually grant a good setup unless extremely high in the air, which is very hard to time perfectly, you can usually backdash/jump out without a problem now)
-His combos are much more strict, and do less damage
-He's more meter reliant because buzzsaw is the only capture move you can do after a bomb, and this grants weaker setups than prepatch meterless.
-He has no really good mids, no decent pressure tools, no real reason to pick him over a lot of characters. They took his identity away for the most part.

I don't see any point of picking him unless you like being gimmicky and struggling in a lot of matchups with your favorite character.

Before anyone talks about how "Cyrax is still good" read this please.
Click to expand...
Great idea.

i was wanting EX net after a normal bomb hit, but EX bomb allowing normal net would be cool as well.
 
Last edited:
Krayzie

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
KrayzieCyrax said:
Can I take this time to apologize for my name? I had no idea there was a Cyrax player named Krayzie, I feel like an asshole now. I just combined my favorite rapper with my favorite MK character lol. I've used this name for many usernames in the past
Click to expand...
Don't trip, its all good... lol
 
Bugman

Bugman

Noob
Cyrax is fine ladies and gentlemen. Is he normalize which mean that you have to be really good to use him without brain dead moves over in over.
 
PND_Ketchup

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I don't think Cyrax is bad, but I strongly think he was over nerfed.

usually with this type of thing you go for one extreme or another type of nerf. But with Cyrax they decided to nerf EVERYTHING, which I personally don't agree with.

The issue many had with Cyrax was his hard to blockable Summoner Quan style game of winning after one net, but I don't see why every single part of his game had to be nerfed at the same time, including all of the universal Triborg nerfs to boot.

A character who was designed to seemingly have bomb oki doesn't even have that anymore outside of the corner. I just don't think the sheer amount of nerfs he got were necessary.

The teleport change I'm really not sold on. That reversal does such little damage and grants him no advantage I wouldn't care if I got hit by it unless it's the end of the round. He's lost a bar for very little payoff. If he made a bad read its a full combo punish and he lost a bar.
 
scarsunseen

scarsunseen

RIP TYM 6/11/2021
PND_Ketchup said:
I don't think Cyrax is bad, but I strongly think he was over nerfed.

usually with this type of thing you go for one extreme or another type of nerf. But with Cyrax they decided to nerf EVERYTHING, which I personally don't agree with.

The issue many had with Cyrax was his hard to blockable Summoner Quan style game of winning after one net, but I don't see why every single part of his game had to be nerfed at the same time, including all of the universal Triborg nerfs to boot.

A character who was designed to seemingly have bomb oki doesn't even have that anymore outside of the corner. I just don't think the sheer amount of nerfs he got were necessary.
Click to expand...
Those are my thoughts too. He honestly did need to be nerfed, but they overdid it. With all the crazy grenade setups that Demo Sonya STILL has, I don't see the justification for nerfing Cyrax as they did.
 
Crusty

Crusty

Retired forever; don’t ask for games.
I sounded like an asshole earlier but here's why I guess.

Nobody wanted Cyrax to be the touch-of-death god he was in MK9. Should he have been nerfed, definitely. But not to the extent that he was.

Being a character loyalist is not rewarding when it comes to NRS.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Crusty Clown said:
I sounded like an asshole earlier but here's why I guess.

Nobody wanted Cyrax to be the touch-of-death god he was in MK9. Should he have been nerfed, definitely. But not to the extent that he was.

Being a character loyalist is not rewarding when it comes to NRS.
Click to expand...
except if your, Kitana, Mileena, Tekada, Kano, Goro, Ferra Torr, Kotal, sonya Bo rai cho, Alien: loyalist :DOGE
 
xxFalcon Loverxx

xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
MadeOfMetal said:
well kitana and Mileena loyalists got rewarded, as well as Jason, Tekada, Jacqui, Ferra Torr, and Goro loyalists.

and yes he nerfs things they deem broken, they just do it in the wrong way, and hit the wrong things.

example, the corner for CSZ was supposed to nerf the HTB's and F2 was supposed to hit them correctly. i can still setup HTB into corner carry. Drop a metered Ice bomb, 28% into a ground freeze into another 50/50 28% a potential 56% plus the 24% leading to corner

i think he is fine. its just funny how they nerf to make things disappear and they still remain. kinda shows you how bad they are at balancing.








LOL

well i gues ill be known as my older brother. fine with me.


as of know i am ESG jagged/Made of Metal

now that we got that out of the way.




Great idea.

i was wanting EX net after a normal bomb hit, but EX bomb allowing normal net would be cool as well.
Click to expand...
Nah, i'll believe you.
 
Rebourne07

Rebourne07

The only Metallic player left
PND_Ketchup said:
I don't think Cyrax is bad, but I strongly think he was over nerfed.

usually with this type of thing you go for one extreme or another type of nerf. But with Cyrax they decided to nerf EVERYTHING, which I personally don't agree with.

The issue many had with Cyrax was his hard to blockable Summoner Quan style game of winning after one net, but I don't see why every single part of his game had to be nerfed at the same time, including all of the universal Triborg nerfs to boot.

A character who was designed to seemingly have bomb oki doesn't even have that anymore outside of the corner. I just don't think the sheer amount of nerfs he got were necessary.

The teleport change I'm really not sold on. That reversal does such little damage and grants him no advantage I wouldn't care if I got hit by it unless it's the end of the round. He's lost a bar for very little payoff. If he made a bad read its a full combo punish and he lost a bar.
Click to expand...
Thank you for personally weighing in. If you have any sway with your connections at NRS please try to persuade them to fix Cyrax :) I am astounded you and Mustard did so well in Scotland considering the Tri-Borg nerfs but it just shows that you guys are great players and dedicated to your characters. I hope they can do something so that we can all fully enjoy him again someday.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
xxFalcon Loverxx said:
Nah, i'll believe you.
Click to expand...
i get it guys, my brother is a nice guy, but he has a raging temper. so i hope there is no hard feelings, and hopfully others understand me. and don't feel i come on to strong.

im just like every other loyalist on here.

i love my character, and sometimes im blinded to the dirt i have because of my love of the character, and sometimes i see only the weaknesses in my characters gameplay, and not the other way around.

I knew Cyrax needed a nerf, because he was All broken as hell.
i just didn't like how they did it, is all. and hope they don't just drop the game to do injustice2 from now on, and hope they can make small adjustments for Cyrax and CSZ.

what happened to CSZ feels to wrong.

i get he has B2 and B3 for openers, but most of his openers now are uber punishable and or none hit confirmable.

i still have some great corner setups, and some great midscreen carries for alot less damage. and i think i can rock him, but i feel he should get his B1~freeze and F13~Freeze back.


PND_Ketchup said:
I don't think Cyrax is bad, but I strongly think he was over nerfed.

usually with this type of thing you go for one extreme or another type of nerf. But with Cyrax they decided to nerf EVERYTHING, which I personally don't agree with.

The issue many had with Cyrax was his hard to blockable Summoner Quan style game of winning after one net, but I don't see why every single part of his game had to be nerfed at the same time, including all of the universal Triborg nerfs to boot.

A character who was designed to seemingly have bomb oki doesn't even have that anymore outside of the corner. I just don't think the sheer amount of nerfs he got were necessary.

The teleport change I'm really not sold on. That reversal does such little damage and grants him no advantage I wouldn't care if I got hit by it unless it's the end of the round. He's lost a bar for very little payoff. If he made a bad read its a full combo punish and he lost a bar.
Click to expand...
Lets start off with, OMG you both always surprise me with your uneending skill with the borgs. what you did last tournament was astounding to say the least.

Well done @PND_Ketchup , @PND_Mustard (great job with Cyrax top 8, even after that overhaul of a nerf), @Madzin (if this is PND madzin) nice 3rd with CSZ:cool:

what would you sugesst as fixes to cyrax, how could we safely buff him without him becoming to strong?

Metered net in combo after a bomb connect?

net allowed after a metered bomb?

F13 range increase?

Armor launching?

whatever you guys ask for ill support.

one of the many reasons i follow you guys is that you are both brothers that love the game, and have undying love for the Cybers, just like me and my older brother. so i know without a doubt, you two are the representitives of Cyrax and Sektor, and are more than capable of offering fixes for CSZ,Cyrax,Smoke, and Sektor.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
JDM said:
I don't believe you. Play me online I want to see it. PSN: JDM6413. We can play whenever. I ran into you a few times in ranked actually :V
Click to expand...
he isn't a nightmare, all his dirt is gone. he definitely is capable of winning some matchups, but he is not OP.

he is basically use everything into net now. and be unsafe if they guess right character.

i mean we can Hit confirm 111 into net but, other than that B1 and F21 can not be. and you just get traded when you try F13 now.

i still think his 111 is strong.

but the loss of Metered bomb option in combos kinda stoped some starters.

and with it went his damage. but i get 35% metereless off net starters now. which is not bad
 
JDM

JDM

Noob
MadeOfMetal said:
he isn't a nightmare, all his dirt is gone. he definitely is capable of winning some matchups, but he is not OP.

he is basically use everything into net now. and be unsafe if they guess right character.

i mean we can Hit confirm 111 into net but, other than that B1 and F21 can not be. and you just get traded when you try F13 now.

i still think his 111 is strong.

but the loss of Metered bomb option in combos kinda stoped some starters.

and with it went his damage. but i get 35% metereless off net starters now. which is not bad
Click to expand...
I know. I don't think Cyrax is nearly as good as he's letting on to be. But maybe he's fighting people who don't know how to fight Cyrax, or maybe he's just doing something that I'm not. We'll see. I wanna play him. ;)
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
JDM said:
I know. I don't think Cyrax is nearly as good as he's letting on to be. But maybe he's fighting people who don't know how to fight Cyrax, or maybe he's just doing something that I'm not. We'll see. I wanna play him. ;)
Click to expand...
i imagine its he is playing people that are very good, but don't know the matchup that well, since all his tech and tools/gameplan has not been determined yet, kind of like Bo rai cho's placement isn't either.

remember how everyone was like BRC is bottom 5, then reo was like hell no he top.

its just one of those things that need time. i just feel people hold on to past games to hard.

MK9 is in the past, MKx is the new Cyrax, and he is nothing like his former self, i miss unreactible command grabs (yank 212) into forced Unblockable bombs. chip strings into bombs. remmeber we had to Dash cancel like a fool to get out of theose bomb explodes? now they just low ones that can be blocked and now we have RUN, be like screw em, im leaving that bomb behind blocking the incomming Net and full combo punishing.


do you have Xbox One?

id love to practice with ya.

us Cyrax mains need to stick together
 
Krayzie

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
JDM said:
I don't believe you. Play me online I want to see it. PSN: JDM6413. We can play whenever. I ran into you a few times in ranked actually :V
Click to expand...
I would love to play. Send me a friend request.

EGP_Krayzie

Online I can only use a pad sadly. My hitbox is too loud... :(

Recently moved. At my old place I stayed in the garage, it was awesome. You can ask anyone in SoCal. It was the go-to place for casuals. Haha
 
Reactions: JDM
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
KrayzieCyrax said:
Can I take this time to apologize for my name? I had no idea there was a Cyrax player named Krayzie, I feel like an asshole now. I just combined my favorite rapper with my favorite MK character lol. I've used this name for many usernames in the past
Click to expand...
I was so confused when I saw you post before lol. Then I realized you didn't have the admin colors. :p

#ThuggishRuggishBone
 
S

Sultani

Noob
PND_Ketchup said:
I don't think Cyrax is bad, but I strongly think he was over nerfed.

usually with this type of thing you go for one extreme or another type of nerf. But with Cyrax they decided to nerf EVERYTHING, which I personally don't agree with.

The issue many had with Cyrax was his hard to blockable Summoner Quan style game of winning after one net, but I don't see why every single part of his game had to be nerfed at the same time, including all of the universal Triborg nerfs to boot.

A character who was designed to seemingly have bomb oki doesn't even have that anymore outside of the corner. I just don't think the sheer amount of nerfs he got were necessary.

The teleport change I'm really not sold on. That reversal does such little damage and grants him no advantage I wouldn't care if I got hit by it unless it's the end of the round. He's lost a bar for very little payoff. If he made a bad read its a full combo punish and he lost a bar.
Click to expand...
This. They looked at all of his moves individually instead of understanding how nerfing one thing removed the necessity to nerf another. So they nerfed EVERYTHING.

Then they released patch notes that weren't even true and it made it look worse than it was. Three bombs per combo? yeah.... Nope.

I can only assume the net duration was meant to remove the hard to blockable setup, which it didn't, which was never an issue anyway outside of the corner. Blocking doesn't always need to be the answer to every situation always. I wish people understood that. And I wish NRS didn't always try to cater to that stupid mindset.

Again, they half correctly patched the wrong game. A net not coming out after a bomb explosion is a fix to MK9 Cyrax resets. So you can't loop low bomb /OH air net over and over anymore. that' was never a problem with the character. It was always a problem with people thinking blocking had to work in that situation or it was broken.

All he needed was increased gravity on subsequent bombs after the first in the same combo. That's it. There was an obvious problem with him being the only character that ignored the regular gravity scaling that everyone else had. The result was 40% meterless combos that chewed up a third of the clock. Increase the scaling, and that's gone. Then he's fine.
 
G4S MinotaurLord

G4S MinotaurLord

Wielder of Toxins
3/4th of this thread is "I'M NOT CRYING, YOU'RE CRYING", and the rest of it is an inconsequential ethical discussion about the nuances of how companies should tweak characters post-release to cater to a small competitive minority. I'm not saying that threads about nerfs and buffs are completely unwarranted, but TYM's shitshow since . . . . well, let's be serious here, the last MK9 patch, has reached untold levels of circlejerking. This thread, along with many others, can be summarized as such: "my favorite character did not receive nice treatment in the last batch of patches. Things that worked before no longer work and I am upset." Into the void for 6 pages of comments. The ump-teenth mimic'd thread this week. It's a shame because not only are threads with tech and matchup knowledge diminishing, they're actively taking a back seat to threads that de-rail and sometimes push the community backwards. When the SF community comes out with a new "ultra" or patches their game, go check the forums. Page after page of adjusted links, tech, and strats, with almost no trace of threads like this one - threads that define our community and how other communities in the FGC see us.

I think the truth is that most of the community doesn't even like the game they are playing. I don't buy the whole "I like this game, I like my character, that's why I'm crying for X" mentality. That's a re-worded "I want to like this game, but fundamental things about it bother me and I can't participate in a community about said game without wanting to change it." It may not be unwarranted - MKX may have many things fundamentally wrong with it, but your ability to enjoy a game is between you and the game. Everything else is a distraction, an excuse, a complaint.

If the game is fundamentally busted and 2 players going to a tournament cannot match their skills because of game mechanics, it should not be played competitively. MKX does not meet this as the game DOES function as intended and, despite what a foreigner to these forums might think, actually has fairly decent character balance for a fighting game (look at how rigid tiers are in games like MVC2, CVS2, SSBM, and Tekken 6). If your complaint is that your specific character (or even more absurdly, your specific variation) isn't good enough to get top 1 (hell, or even top 8) at a tournament isn't a god damn reasonable complaint in the FGC, full stop. In no other community does it work like this. And no, "the era of patching released games" hasn't changed this if you pay any amount of attention to any other FG scene.

"But there are more balanced fighting games out there - I just want a balanced game!" . . . then go pick one up. MKX's long-term tournament viability rests on the competitive community having fun while playing the game. If you're not, it's probably best to find a hobby you DO enjoy instead of spending weeks, months, and sometimes years (for people on this site) complaining about a hobby you DON'T.
 
JDM

JDM

Noob
Sultani said:
This. They looked at all of his moves individually instead of understanding how nerfing one thing removed the necessity to nerf another. So they nerfed EVERYTHING.

Then they released patch notes that weren't even true and it made it look worse than it was. Three bombs per combo? yeah.... Nope.

I can only assume the net duration was meant to remove the hard to blockable setup, which it didn't, which was never an issue anyway outside of the corner. Blocking doesn't always need to be the answer to every situation always. I wish people understood that. And I wish NRS didn't always try to cater to that stupid mindset.

Again, they half correctly patched the wrong game. A net not coming out after a bomb explosion is a fix to MK9 Cyrax resets. So you can't loop low bomb /OH air net over and over anymore. that' was never a problem with the character. It was always a problem with people thinking blocking had to work in that situation or it was broken.

All he needed was increased gravity on subsequent bombs after the first in the same combo. That's it. There was an obvious problem with him being the only character that ignored the regular gravity scaling that everyone else had. The result was 40% meterless combos that chewed up a third of the clock. Increase the scaling, and that's gone. Then he's fine.
Click to expand...
I didn't see his post. Yeah Cyrax got overnerfed hard.

And yes, I think he's a bad character. If we're talking compared to the good characters or even the mediocre ones, what does he bring to the table exactly? This is coming from someone who used pre patch Jason and thought he was a damn good character besides a few needed tools (like a better d1 which they gave him, I actually think Jason is very good now). The main things Cyrax has a good whiff punisher and a great backdash. Other than that his design is fundamentally flawed right now. he's a setup character with no real setups like Mustard said outside of the corner.

I don't know, I just don't see it. I'm trying to work with him it's just so.... bad. :(

Edit: I strongly disagree with your post by the way. His combos were annoyingly long and yeah I agree they should have been toned down (which they have obv) but he needed to get rid of the loopable air net htb. It was way too obnoxious and basically presented no risk for the cyrax player. They could have went about it better. Especially since raw bombs grant almost NO significant advantage now. And they definitely shouldn't have made it so EX bomb makes net missfire. What a stupid fucking "Fix".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.