New Yomi Tier List after The Big Patch 9/1+

Dinosaur said:

Would you say then shes a high risk/ high reward character or a high risk/medium reward? And if thats the case, do you agree with the placing yomi gave her. Since other characters can work less and do easier tech/cancels but get more out of it?

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I don't think she's high risk. High execution does not equal high risk. As a high level player, my execution is expected to be near perfect. People expect that from me and I expect that from myself. If I fuck up a cancel, it's on me.

I've said for a while now that D'Vorah is in the 6-8 range and that's where they basically placed her.

Espio said:

Pasting this from the Mileena mu thread in the Mileena forums.
Balanced Kenshi- zoning is weak with lots of whiff recovery. Goro crushes him on knockdown and pressures him really well too. Low fireballs can be used to throw off reflects and can launch with meter.

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I'd say you lose that advantage past 2/3rds screen - low fireball doesn't reach that far, and Kenshi can reach you. You can technically, on a read, do a delayed u after crouching the teleflurry but it's risky as fuck if he baits out the stomp. Granted, Goro can control the stomp on reaction to him not doing it, but still.

I still think it's Goro's favor though.

HoneyBee said:

I agree.

In my opinion, Swarm Queen D'Vorah is one of, if not, the hardest character to play execution wise in MKX. And while she's a great character, there's characters that are simply better than her that also require less effort to use (BS Shinnok for example). I don't see SQ D'Vorah as the type of character someone can secondary and just pull out as a counter pick in tournament. I can't think of a single time someone used her as a character switch at a major and won. Her cancels have different buffer windows on block/hit and they also change based on the string you use. With how momentum based this game is, one fucked up cancel can easily be ggs.

The players capable of playing her at a high level in tournament either aren't interested in her design wise or they would rather use a better character that requires less effort to use. The majority of players that do play her in tournament just aren't at the level required to compete with the likes of top players like YOMI, etc, etc, yet.

@Dinosaur

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IMO, any character that has run cancels are hard to play execution wise. (Dragon Fire Liu Kang, Heavy Weapons Jax, Marksman Erron Black)

A lot of those characters mentioned above don't even have as good of a run cancelled block string as Dvorah.

Fortunately, all those characters have much easier variations that are almost equally as good. Flame Fist Liu Kang is one of the easier characters to pick up in the game compared to Dragon Fire Liu Kang, who is probably the hardest character to use execution wise.

You know, if you can properly navigate through all of the shitposts that are personal attacks and people having a problem with the YOMI Tier Placing, you could actually find some damn good tech when people debate on here. Please never stop making posts like these, YOMI Boys. When people fight about gameplay mechanics, that's when I find that the average forum reader like myself learns a lot of cool stuff to try out in practice.

Predator not in S because of Burger King?

Tier Lists should be done by variation, they are unaccurate otherwise.

Because of their size and skill I expected something else, this just seems lazy on their part

Finally a grading system. Lowest tier being a C tier basically means everyone is more than viable now. Although I don't agree with the order of the list I definitely agree with the lowest tier grade.

I agree with most of A tier aaaaaand that's about it except you guys are definitely leaving out Predator's broken ass. Cassie is stupid good but not in that tier in comparison to other characters. I think you guys need to sleep more at yomi lol if Cassie was a whole tier above Jax then I need to seriously sssstop and reevaluate my life.

I Am The LK said:

Heres what I gotta say about that Mr.YOMI: Cage has a good D4. BUT ON BLOCK LIU KANG CAN F44 RIGHT AFTER YOU DO THE MOVE. SO IF I DO THIS AND IT'S BLOCKED IM HANDING A TURN TO ATTACK OVER TO MY OPPONENT. OTHER CHARACTERS CAN DO THAT TO CAGE TO. His F3 is great. But awful if it whiffs. And it leads to a frame trap on block where I will either EAT ARMOR. DO A GRAB WHOOPTY FUCKIN DOO. D4 (IF BLOCKED IM HANDING THE TURN TO ATTACK TO MY OPPONENT.) DO AN OVERHEAD WHICH WILL GET BLOCKED. GO FOR A 11 AND GET POKED OUT OF IF MY OPPONENT IS SMART. OR 113 AND RISK GETTING FUZZY BLOCKED. OR 113 EX FORCE BALL WHICH CAN BE DESTROYED BY CASSIES FLIP KICK AND REPTILES DASH AND SEVERAL OTHER FAST MOVES. ANYONE WITH AN 8FRAME POKE CAN GET OUT OF THE EX FORCE BALL TRAP. SO MY OPTIONS SUCK. AND ALL FOR 23% OR 33% Good day. My opinion

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If you're getting fuzzy guarded when doing 113, you're doing it wrong.

113 and 1,f2 is a mix up that can't be fuzzy guarded against.

Vintagesoul said:

If you're getting fuzzy guarded when doing 113, you're doing it wrong.

113 and 1,f2 is a mix up that can't be fuzzy guarded against.

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??? Lol of course it can be fuzzy guarded

michaelangelo said:

What's up everyone! Myself and the guys at Yomi think it's time to share to the public what we think our opinion on the current tier list could be. This has been a work in progress in the last three weeks. Assume we are ranking characters based on their best variation for a match up.


*CHARACTERS ARE NOT ORDERED WITHIN GROUPS, JUST TOGETHER IN THE SAME TIER GROUP*

S Tier (most winning match ups)
Quan Chi
Kung Lao
Shinnok
Tanya

A+ Tier
Predator
Tremor
Cassie
D'Vorah
Johnny Cage

A Tier
Sonya Blade
Erron Black
Kotal Kahn
Sub-Zero
Scorpion
Jax
Kung Jin

A- Tier
Liu Kang
Takeda
Kitana
Reptile
Kano
Raiden
Ermac

B Tier
Kenshi
Mileena
Jacqui
Ferra / Torr

C Tier (no winning match ups)
Goro
Jason

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the downplaying of kano continues

Bar_Bar13 said:

Tier List thread on TYM?

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for real I put a popcorn bag in the microwave as soon as I saw this thread

@michaelangelo i have never had a problem with yomi list but this time i would also like to see what you guys think the best varations are. Even tho im sure it will cause a riot lol

I think that ermac beats most of the tiers from the list above him!

Asodimazze said:

P


??? Lol of course it can be fuzzy guarded

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You're thinking of 113 and 11,f2.

The window to fuzzy guard 113 and 1,f2 is only 2-3 frames.

Vintagesoul said:

You're thinking of 113 and 11,f2.

The window to fuzzy guard 113 and 1,f2 is only 2-3 frames.

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No your forgetting the block stun frames which frame data doesn't show you

It's a an easy fuzzy

Vintagesoul said:

You're thinking of 113 and 11,f2.

The window to fuzzy guard 113 and 1,f2 is only 2-3 frames.

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If you don't see 11, don't block low at all.
1, f2 is a good mixup, but it can be blocked without too many troubles if one pays attention. 1,f2 - 113 is not a 50-50

Burger King didn't take it well, did he?

It'd definitely be cool to see them place each variation for sure.

Some characters have a clear best variation, although, there are a few that almost need to have their variations ranked separately.

Just remember, these guys actually play this stuff out. They don't see Foreverking win two tournaments and claim that that must mean Predator is top tier. When I first saw Scorpion in A tier, despite me not disagreeing, I wondered who uses Scorpion at Yomi, then I remembered that they have possibly the best ninjutsu(blake), and possibly the best hellfire(MIT). I'm sure there are very few variations that aren't used at Yomi, so acting like anyone has more knowledge of how the cast falls in place, is bananas.

I watch the Yomi stream a lot, and the only character I can say I haven't seen is D'vorah. Although, Honeybee agrees with her placement, so I don't see any reason to complain here. If you disagree with their opinion, that's fine. Just know that bashing them is wrong, because they're more qualified than you.

cR WoundCowboy said:

Shinnok is top 3? Interesting, 3 was the number of times that king punished b3 on block. Most people at yomi don't know that f4 sparks is no longer guaranteed. And yet he is top 3 in the game....

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Burger King is still butt hurt man, give him time.

FireBreather said:

No your forgetting the block stun frames which frame data doesn't show you

It's a an easy fuzzy

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That's a good point, but does anyone know what the frames for block stop are in this game?

Cause the last time I labbed this, 113 /1,f2 didn't feel fuzziable.

Asodimazze said:

If you don't see 11, don't block low at all.
1, f2 is a good mixup, but it can be blocked without too many troubles if one pays attention. 1,f2 - 113 is not a 50-50

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If you don't see 11 don't block low at all works... if the JC is *only* doing 113/1,f2.

But if the JC uses 113 / 1,f2 as his core mix up, and throws in the occasional 1Throw, 11Throw, and 11,f2, then the opponent can't just react to 11 and block low.

Its a simple truth in fighting games that its drastically harder to react to multiple options than it is to react to one option.

So my original point still stands- if a JC player is scared to do 113 because he thinks he's going to get fuzzy guarded and punished.... then he's doing it wrong.

michaelangelo said:

S Tier (most winning match ups)
Predator
WoundCowboy

A+ Tier
Shinnok
Burger King

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Fixed it for you, stop being a bitch King.

This is a shit list, not tier list. They're for sure trolling with this.

Kano is fine (A-), for real... ExBuff is great because it combos... cool...

Also, Predator A+ and Shinok S?? Raiden same tier as Kano?

Gofer_MK_ said:

Kano is fine (A-), for real... ExBuff is great because it combos... cool...

Also, Predator A+ and Shinok S?? Raiden same tier as Kano?

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I think Kano is getting a lot of mileage out of having 3 viable variations that can be used in different MU's. The sum of his variations is strong even though they're not THAT strong individually.