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Unsolved Mysteries of MKX: Advantage Armored Launchers

AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I know your only comparing Kenshi to the top 5-10 characters in the game. If he isn't in the top 10 there isn't any chance in you being happy which I understand from the competitor in you.

As is though Kenshi has his place in MKX...it's just not as high as Kenshi players are used to.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
I know your only comparing Kenshi to the top 5-10 characters in the game. If he isn't in the top 10 there isn't any chance in you being happy which I understand from the competitor in you.

As is though Kenshi has his place in MKX...it's just not as high as Kenshi players are used to.
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You're either viable for tournaments or not and Kenshi is not
 
juicepouch

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
Espio said:
Goro is better than Kenshi, but the more downplay the more buffs I guess so whatever.

Kenshi's full screen presence doesn't even function the way it should to be a zoner. Goro at least functions properly as a footsies/rushdown/grappler hybrid, he just has noticeable flaws that stop him from being top tier.
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i also think he's better than kenshi but i'm free so what do i know
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
I will list some but I'm afraid to go downstairs to use the TV.

Asleep is a puppy so fierce and crazy I dare not wake him. Off the top of my head.

Kotal sun choke
Devorah puddle (yup)
Kang BK
Lao spin
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Moves I can understand like a Lao Spin, but projectiles? On a zoner?

I need to check myself but I don't think that many zoning tools have +40 recovery frames. Like I'm thinking Kitana Fans, QC Skulls/Runes, Liu Fireballs, HQT Pred Plasma, etc, effective zoning tools in the game. I don't think any have such large recovery frames as Telefurry does that I can think of.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
SaltShaker said:
Moves I can understand like a Lao Spin, but projectiles? On a zoner?

I need to check myself but I don't think that many zoning tools have +40 recovery frames. Like I'm thinking Kitana Fans, QC Skulls/Runes, Liu Fireballs, HQT Pred Plasma, etc, effective zoning tools in the game. I don't think any have such large recovery frames as Telefurry does that I can think of.
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@AK L0rdoftheFLY ^
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Is the debate that moves in MKX don't have 40 frames of recovery or that projectile moves in MKX don't have 40 frames of recovery?

I'm not saying it's fine and should stay...what I'm saying is that across the cast this is nothing strange.

If you ONLY consider vs top tiers you have a reason to complain but this game has like 90 characters. Kenshi is NOT in the bottom 5 of 90 characters.
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Armored launchers that are + a problem
Non armored launchers that are plus aren't. As far as I am concerned everybody has a "Non armored launcher" because everybody has a standing 1 or some move that is + on block and can be cancelled into a special. Such as characters who can hit confirm off 11 or do string thats + on block (I.E Tremor doing F12 or Kitana doing 21 or erron doing 11 johnny cage 11 etc etc)

So this "OH LAUNCHER THAT IS PLUS ON BLOCK NERF IT" is absolutely bullshit and is straight up Complaining. Get used to it because this is one of the few fighting games that are 2d that plays the way it does. Try playing literally any other 2d fighter then come back here. As far as all the 2d fighters I play on the daily, this game is sooooo softcore when it comes to + or safe launcher. If you want a unsafe launchers universally then nerf everybody's anything ever to -12 except for pokes. Characters that do attacks or specials that can launch and are plus on block that also cost meter is ACTUALLY BAD For them BECAUSE they have to use meter. So in return, they are allotted pressure to continue. And as far as i am concerned, no follow up FOR THE MOST PART is guaranteed. So stop complaining.
/THREADD
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
SaltShaker said:
Moves I can understand like a Lao Spin, but projectiles? On a zoner?

I need to check myself but I don't think that many zoning tools have +40 recovery frames. Like I'm thinking Kitana Fans, QC Skulls/Runes, Liu Fireballs, HQT Pred Plasma, etc, effective zoning tools in the game. I don't think any have such large recovery frames as Telefurry does that I can think of.
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True, but it's kinda hard to compare Kenshi's stuff either way. It's not like a command grab or spin obviously. But it's also not really like a traditional projectile as far as traveling across the screen, the damage it does, etc. Quan Chi is actually the most similar with how Trance and Runes work. Little ironic.
 
YoloRoll1stHit

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Ok if we are talking about kenshi viability. Can you name some of 5 -5 matchups against some viable chars? If he doesn't have any 5-5 matchups agaisnt tournament viabke characters then he needs more
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
Is the debate that moves in MKX don't have 40 frames of recovery or that projectile moves in MKX don't have 40 frames of recovery?

I'm not saying it's fine and should stay...what I'm saying is that across the cast this is nothing strange.

If you ONLY consider vs top tiers you have a reason to complain but this game has like 90 characters. Kenshi is NOT in the bottom 5 of 90 characters.
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I know some moves have big recovery on whiff, some have 1 whole second recovery, but the good ones at least have something manageable. I don't think a 50/50 character whiffing one of their normals/specials or Shinnok's whiffed unblockable is the same as a zoning characters projectile recovery. It's part of what makes them good zoners, and good characters, outside of their individual properties.

Say HQT Predator for example. A character everyone can agree is a Top 10 variation and a Top 3 Zoner in the game. Now imagine his Plasma Shots being -40+ on whiff. Imagine how much it would change the character and his "elite" zoning. It'd be highly unlikely that he remained as good without characters having to respect his zoning like they do now.

Now enters Kenshi. With not even 1/5 of the tools HQT has and -40+ recovery on telefurry lol. It doesn't make any sense imo. I'm no Kenshi expert by any means, but it seems obvious that fixing this move to be on par with other good projectiles would be a major step in making him a better character.

Also, I don't like the "bottom 5" comparison because a lot of variations just suck in this game in comparison to the good ones. I think some of the characters are massively up played in this game and there's a huge gap between the top and upper mid, and everyone else. Maybe not a popular belief but it's hard for me to say Quan Chi is Top Tier and Scorpion is mid tier and they are close. That gap looks huge to me not "everyone is viable". I remember people arguing Joker was viable in Injustice so I take it as people wanting what is not true. Kenshi, seems even lower than mid, especially in Balanced lol. His should be called the "Suck Bottom" where Balanced is hanging out with Spectral, Dualist, Master of Storms, and other clear non viable friends.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
ChaosTheory said:
True, but it's kinda hard to compare Kenshi's stuff either way. It's not like a command grab or spin obviously. But it's also not really like a traditional projectile as far as traveling across the screen, the damage it does, etc. Quan Chi is actually the most similar with how Trance and Runes work. Little ironic.
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That's true and a good example. The thing is though, it is his projectile. It isn't like QC who can also mix it up with air skulls and ground skulls to space you out. Or the fact that if he hits you with it he can get 30% Unbreakable damage, so the trade off of bad recovery is fair. As with Trance. With Kenshi, if you're at any distance he can only do either telefurry which is ridiculous on whiff, or OH Slash which is negative on hit (lol). The maximum payoff is 14% damage and more risk. Night and Day compared to QC. If you look at his toolset, he appears to be a character designed in keeping people out, with no actual way to keep people out. This is on top of his inside tools being bad as well.
 
TrulyAmiracle

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Pig Of The Hut said:
Is low rocket not a Plus on block launcher ?or up rocket?
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?
This thread is about safe armored launchers, none of the rockets have armor. I was stating the error in the OP's post coz ex dash strike doesn't launch.
But to answer your question low rocket is a safe launcher (-1, not plus) but you can poke out if she does it off of any string with no trade unless you're cornered.
Up-rocket is plus on block and pops up but it's a high that can be ducked by most characters even in crouch block, plus it whiffs off of many strings and on females even if they're standing coz of the angle of the rockets going up.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
KingHippo said:
I've always wondered, why does Kenshi HAVE to be a zoner? Isn't that just some community thing shoved on him? I think another Unsolved Mysteries is in store...
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What? With that toolset what else is he designed to be? He'd have to get a massive overhaul in his moveset to play rushdown or mix up I'd think. How would he play as something else effectively?
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
SonicFox5000 said:
Armored launchers that are + a problem
Non armored launchers that are plus aren't. As far as I am concerned everybody has a "Non armored launcher" because everybody has a standing 1 or some move that is + on block and can be cancelled into a special. Such as characters who can hit confirm off 11 or do string thats + on block (I.E Tremor doing F12 or Kitana doing 21 or erron doing 11 johnny cage 11 etc etc)

So this "OH LAUNCHER THAT IS PLUS ON BLOCK NERF IT" is absolutely bullshit and is straight up Complaining. Get used to it because this is one of the few fighting games that are 2d that plays the way it does. Try playing literally any other 2d fighter then come back here. As far as all the 2d fighters I play on the daily, this game is sooooo softcore when it comes to + or safe launcher. If you want a unsafe launchers universally then nerf everybody's anything ever to -12 except for pokes. Characters that do attacks or specials that can launch and are plus on block that also cost meter is ACTUALLY BAD For them BECAUSE they have to use meter. So in return, they are allotted pressure to continue. And as far as i am concerned, no follow up FOR THE MOST PART is guaranteed. So stop complaining.
/THREADD
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All I'm asking for is a + on block launcher like most of the cast

My midget standing 1 doesn't compare to erron blacks ex low grenade which for guessing wrong there's no consequence. Same goes for Quan ex rune, tremor low crystal, etc

In fact give me a launcher that's safe at least. Is this really complaining or is this simply some of us wanting to play the same game erron and others get to play?
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
KingHippo said:
I've always wondered, why does Kenshi HAVE to be a zoner? Isn't that just some community thing shoved on him? I think another Unsolved Mysteries is in store...
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He doesn't, infact I wish he had equal tools as an erron, Sonya, Tanya, LIU kang, shinnok, etc (just pick one)


See the difference is when you w one of those characters, any of them, go for pressure into a low or OH launcher option you're rewarded for guessing incorrectly. Infact most times you're giving frames on a silver platter all because you guessed incorrectly and guess what you still get another guess all for being wrong.

When I go in /rushing in or mod screen w kenjutsu or balanced and you block or I guess incorrectly I'm punished because I'm either -17,-10,-14,-29

Those are my options. No one is asking for mk9 Kenshi, all of us are asking to be able to play the same game .

@SonicFox5000
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
TrulyAmiracle said:
?
This thread is about safe armored launchers, none of the rockets have armor. I was stating the error in the OP's post coz ex dash strike doesn't launch.
But to answer your question low rocket is a safe launcher (-1, not plus) but you can poke out if she does it off of any string with no trade unless you're cornered.
Up-rocket is plus on block and pops up but it's a high that can be ducked by most characters even in crouch block, plus it whiffs off of many strings and on females even if they're standing coz of the angle of the rockets going up.
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Discussion has moved passed that
 
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