Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

GNG Iniquity said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. SF4 is a very easy game to master the basics of but the GOOD players (which there are so many of) are just on an extreme level. Those 1 frame FADC links and all that other crazy shit requires a huge time investment and obvious natural talent and dedication. Same can be said for KoF. That's the exciting thing about SF4 though is that the game is still being meshed out and there's still hype when some insanely good player brings a formerly thought of bad character to win major tournaments.

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its not the execution that makes these players better. there are so many players who aren't very heavy on execution that are great, like john choi or justin wong who tend to keep things simple and just do the same combos everyone else does which aren't very hard. the clear difference is how much more solid their neutral is. also KOF has an advanced input system that makes the execution a hell of a lot more lenient than it seems at first

trufenix said:

They just buffed the hell out of anti air and gave a ton of people ways out of pressure.

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maybe its just the fact that everyone's offense got way better. games still super offensive based

RM Jonnitti said:

its not the execution that makes these players better. there are so many players who aren't very heavy on execution that are great, like john choi or justin wong who tend to keep things simple and just do the same combos everyone else does which aren't very hard. the clear difference is how much more solid their neutral is. also KOF has an advanced input system that makes the execution a hell of a lot more lenient than it seems at first

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True but look at players like Xian and his Gen. That guy is crazy good execution wise.

RM Jonnitti said:

maybe its just the fact that everyone's offense got way better. games still super offensive based

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People still shit on Injustice for all the pew pew and slow movement. It should really be no surprise they took MK in the opposite direction.

trufenix said:

People still shit on Injustice for all the pew pew and slow movement. It should really be no surprise they took MK in the opposite direction.

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its not the pacing of the game thats the problem, its that you don't get rewarded for good defense. if you play safe and respect your opponent and block, you end up taking a ridiculous amount of chip damage and put into 50/50 situations.

GNG Iniquity said:

How well did that work out for MK9 and Injustice? Not well at all. Here's how NRS tends to operate. I think it's fair for me to make this assessment as this is the 3rd time that I've seen their pattern.

Step 1. Rush game at release with shit netcode and bugs/glitches/block infinites galore
Step 2. Kneejerk patching and beta fixes
Step 3. Releases DLC
Step 4. Kneejerk patching/hotfix failure resolves
Step 5. More kneejerk patching/hotfix failure resolves
Step 6. 'Finalized' game is abandoned
Step 7. NRS releases new game because it's more profitable

You only get to really participate in these games during this bullshit and once the game is 'finalized' there's only a very small percentage of people left playing this crap. Their model is full well knowing that their product is disposable. And yes, it's impossible now to become a good player if you picked up SF4 weeks ago because everyone has had years of exposure to playing the game but the game is still being supported. That is NOT the case with this company's games. There's a lot of people here that want a competent competitive fighting game but NRS has deliberately chosen to create a disposable lackluster game that's only purpose is to sell to the casual audience.

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Well, that could actually work - you see that they are doing what they were always doing, you don't buy the game. If something changes, you can get into the game. That's pretty much what I've meant with "informed decision".

As for picking up SF... Well, I've seen people picking up GG of all things. If people can do that, you definitely can get into SF.

trufenix said:

People still shit on Injustice for all the pew pew and slow movement. It should really be no surprise they took MK in the opposite direction.

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Ranged game in IGAU was good enough to be considered offensive. Getting too defensive is still bad idea and toolkits that rely on defence and reaction like UB Subs or Mileena are not very good atm.

RM Jonnitti said:

its not the execution that makes these players better. there are so many players who aren't very heavy on execution that are great, like john choi or justin wong who tend to keep things simple and just do the same combos everyone else does which aren't very hard. the clear difference is how much more solid their neutral is. also KOF has an advanced input system that makes the execution a hell of a lot more lenient than it seems at first

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j wong not heavy on execution? lmfao

i heavily disagree with you. Execution is definitely a huge factor.

what your describing applies to every fighting game and the people playing them if they have been out since the early 90's or playing them since their first versions were released. and they were the top then for the same reasons, and execution was a big factor then as well.

dubson said:

j wong not heavy on execution? lmfao

i heavily disagree with you. Execution is definitely a huge factor.

what your describing applies to every fighting game and the people playing them if they have been out since the early 90's or playing them since their first versions were released. and they were the top then for the same reasons, and execution was a big factor then as well.

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J Wong himself will tell you he's not heavy on execution. He's mostly a fundamental player. Rarely will u ever see j wong swag on someone.

EMPEROR PRYCE said:

J Wong himself will tell you he's not heavy on execution. He's mostly a fundamental player. Rarely will u ever see j wong swag on someone.

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well, then he is simply being humble.

do i debate those guys have strong fundamentals? not at all. they absolutely do. its another big piece of the "pie".

you dont get to his level and accrue the amount of tournament wins the guy has, and at the age he did it, with with weak execution.

execution being used pretty vaguely, as well. doesn't mean he is a combo artist, but it does mean the dude has a very, very low % of dropping any given combo, at any given time. no matter how big or small, basic or advanced.

also, the guy used two examples out of a huge pool of players (more than probably any fighting game ever) to base a universal statement, and not only that, but he tried to use his "short amount of time" experience as support.

i.e., if he tried posting something like that on a street fighter board, he'd be laughed outta the joint faster than the wife can figure out a way to spend it.

dubson said:

j wong not heavy on execution? lmfao

i heavily disagree with you. Execution is definitely a huge factor.

what your describing applies to every fighting game and the people playing them if they have been out since the early 90's or playing them since their first versions were released. and they were the top then for the same reasons, and execution was a big factor then as well.

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justin plays rufus come on that shit aint hard

regardless john choi is one of the best shoto players in the business and he does simple ass combos and mostly wins by spacing.

arturo is another example of a player who isn't necessarily execution heavy that just has amazing neutral and gets the job done

RM Jonnitti said:

justin plays rufus come on that shit aint hard

regardless john choi is one of the best shoto players in the business and he does simple ass combos and mostly wins by spacing.

arturo is another example of a player who isn't necessarily execution heavy that just has amazing neutral and gets the job done

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that is reflective of those players skill and experience, not the game.

RM Jonnitti said:

i disagree with your statement on sf4. that game is honestly easy af and really straight forward.

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You guys are arguing different definitions of execution. Obviously, when somebody says Choi and Wong are "not big on execution," they aren't saying that they suck at executing and drop combos all over the place.

What they mean is that Choi and Wong, realizing that execution is not their strong suit, use BnB's that are technically sub-optimal that they know they can input every single time in a tournament setting, as opposed to going for max damage combos that might have tight frame links that they may drop from time to time.


Obviously, their execution has to be good enough that they do not drop combos in big games regularly, it's simply not so good that they feel confident enough to do it in a meaningful match.


You also have the flipside of this with some people. There are guys out there who are insane at execution, play with a lot of flash and perform fully optimized, max damage, tight frame link combo's on a consistent basis in tournament games, and yet they never seem to make it into the Top 8, much less win the prize.

dubson said:

that is reflective of those players skill and experience, not the game.

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yes skill and experience definitely. i dont think because the game is easy that it is easier to win. th elevel of competition in street fighter is pretty ridiculous now

I gotta say, i'm currently satisfied with the current NRS patching strategy, also, i believe we as competitive players really contributed rapidly for the meta development of the game, surely there is more to be found but compared to how fast the meta has developed from MK9 to IGAU, MKX is going extremely fast and this is really satisfying.

Its not even a year, yet most of us have this feel like, we've known the game for so long.

Anyway back to the current strategy.

What i like the most, is how they let the game breath past this last patch, and surely we played our heart out of it, how we know for sure what could use some tweaks, and we're likely to get 4 more patches, that adds 4 more characters, reaaaaaly eager to see how the game will likely change not only in characters, but the general gameplay. Without forgetting that they ended up showing love for the entire cast on getting buffs, minors or not, we got them, and we're likely to get more.

And all these past months, NRS has been lurking following up the scene, reading threads and gather information, we are getting a really good time to get to know our characters inside the meta and how would affect them, this is what really makes me satisfied.

Then again, i don't expect this patch to drop on the next 2 months from 2016, so we should keep working on finding all the "BoneShaper" as match as we can, and then expose it, the more the better


Considering we're still getting patched, for the best or for the worse do you think the current strategy was the best choice, since MK9?


Also, i know REO has made a threat for patch predictions before, in order to not make it too reduntant, i'm not asking any predictions in this thread, aside from the above question and share a resumed thoughs on what you think about it, and without revealing too much details, do you think general gameplay mechanics might change on the next patch?

I.e: More stamina meter, or less consumption utility;
better backdashes etc?

Just a though.

If so, do you think the game will change for the better or for the worse?

Well we still have female hitboxes, Jason getting nerfed and quan getting buffed, retardedly good air attacks all that stuff that makes us hate mkx, but then again they do try to make the low tiers viable (unless youre Jason or mileena I guess)

My only criticism is that i think there should be a little more time in between character releases / patches. Just so that they can get more info on what needs fixed in between patches. Also, more time in between patches means they can really fine tune everything instead of potentially rushing a patch out the door. They're definitely on the right track tho IMO.

So we have KI that has recently become 2 years old and which is about to get some characters redesigned rather significantly so that they could work (in addition to regular fixes/changes), as well as new content pack which is par the course though. Another year of support is very much expected at this point. Then there's that fundraising campaign to make the boss from the game playable competitively since he has enough fans apparently.

Then there's SFV, with which Capcom already stated that they are going to support the game for 5 years after the release.

I mean, MKX support is a bigger project than NRS used to do with previous games ofc, but for now I don't see something like this happening, unfortunately.

I just really hope they nerf jumps and jump attacks.

how about a big patch dedicated to fixing and tweaking most character`s completely useless variations? especially when a variation that is called Unbreakable turns out to be the most breakable and fragile variation :/

to name a few:

assassin kitana
warrior predator
master of storms raiden


these are from the top of my head, man i wanna see the game flourish and do well where every variation is viable, streams and tournaments would be so much fun and refreshing to watch instead of seeing the same dominant variations all the time. i really hope they do something like that to breath a new life into the game especially with SFV and KI around the corner.

hoping for the best !

I still believe that they have way too little time between patches. There's no time for the game to breathe.

It's come to the point where, when there's talk about overzealous patching in the FGC, everyone knows it's about MKX/NRS.

I really hope that, moving forward, they adopt something like what Capcom seems to be proposing for Street Fighter V, where major balance changes will only come in between CPT seasons.

ColdSpine said:

assassin kitana

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assassin isn't useless it just needs these tiny little buffs to be better

• faster speed on sharpen and ex sharpen
• more armor on ex run to get through projectiles

I see patch's as Christmas being a mileena loyalist. I'm sure the community's opinions will be based on the characters they play. Do I want to enjoy this rein of terror before hammer time or have to adept to a overall more balanced product. I totally agree I've enjoyed watching the meta get time to pan out, but to me there's always time to fix small things in a game so ambitious as this. We all know the idea of 29 characters with 3 variations will never ever ever be perfect, BUT they got alot of work left to do with alot of them and with the general gameplay mechanics.

I know some won't agree, hell some will say mileena is fine that's not the point I'm trying to make. I leave you with this......If I played::::::::
Cassie
Shinnok
Liu kang
Tanya
Tremor
Quan
Lao
Jax
Pred
Johnny
I wouldn't care about patch's either this is not a joke or a attack on those who do. If I played these characters my personal opinion on this topic would 360. I love this game beyond the Flaws so much guys, but with nrs history of not supporting there shit, they sure do got alot of shit to do.... And that terrifies me lol!

PS ::: I think growing up as a huge ggxx fan I feel spoiled with the nrs patch's. I remember being a johnny loyalist killin it still owning fools and knowing each game my boy was going to come up because of his tier. Waiting for ggxxr ggxxs ggxxac ggxxac+ ggxxac+r made me this way don't judge me =D.

d3v said:

I still believe that they have way too little time between patches. There's no time for the game to breathe.

It's come to the point where, when there's talk about overzealous patching in the FGC, everyone knows it's about MKX/NRS.

I really hope that, moving forward, they adopt something like what Capcom seems to be proposing for Street Fighter V, where major balance changes will only come in between CPT seasons.

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See I hear this a lot, and normally I'd agree. But this is an NRS game, and like it or not, NRS games, (especially MK games), are simply prone to having broken tools in them. Maybe it's because of the chip damage, or how you build meter, or the utility of certain trademark moves, or whatever.

I agree with you that it doesn't make for a good look to other communities. But do you really want to have a whole year of Tanya Pre-CEO? Or Raiden 6f mids? Or Sorceror Quan 2x glyphs? Or Injustice Scorpion/Superman pre-EVO 2013?

How about the other end. Remember when Mileena was actually punished for LANDING a Telekick? Or when Kitana had a worthless D1 and only high Fans? What about version 1 Shinnok? Etc.

Also keep in mind that what needs to be balanced likely will change anyway due to 4 new characters being brought in as DLC with little to no field testing. It's not always as simple as "let it rock".

ZeroEffect said:

See I hear this a lot, and normally I'd agree. But this is an NRS game, and like it or not, NRS games, (especially MK games in particular), are simply prone to having broken tools in them. Maybe it's because of the chip damage, or how you build meter, or the utility of certain trademark moves, or whatever.

I agree with you that it doesn't make for a good look to other communities. But do you really want to have a whole year of Tanya Pre-CEO? Or Raiden 6f mids? Or Sorceror Quan 2x glyphs? Or Injustice Scorpion/Superman pre-EVO 2013?

How about the other end. Remember when Mileena was actually punished for LANDING a Telekick? Or when Kitana had a worthless D1 and only high Fans? What about version 1 Shinnok? Etc.

Also keep in mind that what needs to be balanced likely will change anyway due to 4 new characters being brought in as DLC with little to no field testing. It's not always as simple as "let it rock".

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I love you ...... Ya what he said =)

d3v said:

I still believe that they have way too little time between patches. There's no time for the game to breathe.

It's come to the point where, when there's talk about overzealous patching in the FGC, everyone knows it's about MKX/NRS.

I really hope that, moving forward, they adopt something like what Capcom seems to be proposing for Street Fighter V, where major balance changes will only come in between CPT seasons.

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That'd be an option, if there wasn't such blatant balance issues in the original releases. If everyone was still there day 1 version, there would be about 5 characters seen as playable in the competitive scene, and they'd all lose to Tanya anyway

I do see what your saying, but the game has undeniably improved since release.

They could maybe put a little more thought into things, Quan was top 3 before the patch. Then they gave him significant buffs and things to alleviate his weaknesses. Not good. And they nerf Mileena same patch wtf they can be pretty out of touch sometimes, we desperately need a new patch toning down Cassie Quan and toning up Jason