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The true reason stage interaction shouldn't be allowed in tournaments

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G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
But my point still stands. The advantage was determined to be so minimal and unnoticeable.

We don't know if that advantage is great or not. Based on what we do know about interactables in MKX, indicators point to the very same thing as MK9. But seriously, let's wait until the game comes out and we see the actual impact this has.
I actually disagree with you the advantage is very noticeable imo and has led to rock paper scissors MANY times in tournaments here on the EC at least. Also it was happening at KIT. It matters quite a bit unfortunately and was a a major flaw of the game.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
First of all, you don't even know how good the interactables are in MKX. None of you do. Which is why this thread is a joke. Secondly, we are coming from a game (Injustice) where the interactables played an even bigger roll than they will in MKX (NRS specifically said this). Nobody really complained about them too much once they were patched and balanced out in Injustice, so why fret about something which a) NRS now knows how to balance out now and b) NRS said they won't play as much as a factor as they did in Injustice. We already know they are blockable for God's sake.

Thirdly, your analogies are exaggerated, cartooney and your point is actually just completely wrong. Interactables isn't the equivalent being able to use their cheerleaders in the game or throw 3 balls at once or use their mascot to dance on the field while they are playing or whatever stupid analogy you want to throw in. C'mon man. And Sport's can't make physical alterations that change the competition's balance? Are you insane? Do you think playing on grass is the same as playing on turf? Do you think an outdoor stadium is the same as playing in an indoor stadium? Do you think one baseball field has a fence 302 feet from home plate is the same as another basbeball field that has a fence 436 feet from home plate? The Seattle Seahawks cruised to two straight Super Bowls because they got homefield advantage in the playoffs where the crowd noise is insane and the players can't hear eachother on the field so they have to use hand signals. The crowd is literally called "The 12th Man".

Teams can make whatever physical alterations they want to help get the advantage but in the end, both teams have to play the same game on the same field and they both have to deal with the conditions they are put in whether it was meant to be in their favor or ends up working against them. I ended up playing Forever King in Injustice in tournament on the 'dumpster' stage and while it played a roll it didn't determine the set. Learn to play the game and deal with your opponent before you start blaming your environment.
@CD jr @G4S Claude VonStroke @Evil_Riu48 @NE scene
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Z
if you ask my personal opinion about interactables in mkx. well i think they are weak and very weak i really don't think they will be broken or anything close to that.

however that is not the problem with them the problem with them is that at the beginning of a match player 1 does not have the same interactable to use as player 2.

one more time this is not about the interactables themselves it is about how they are positioned in the stages
Dude who cares? Do you not see that's an equal opportunity for both players?

Player 1 throws interactable then gets read and blown up by an armor advancing special, teleport, jump over, etc

Vice versa w player 2

Or players 2 blocks an interactable and took 1-2% chip,Oh God ouch
 

SnoopyClownGang

Who's Next?
Right. And nobody complains about any of it. Not the fans, not the league, not he coaches, not the players. It's part of the game. It adds depth, fun and some spice to it. It makes things interesting. Nobody wants crazy interactables like rooftop Injustice where it's so unfair you don't even have much of a chance. That's why stuff like that got patched. But it's ok to have outside factors that make things interesting. If you want what's 'most fair' then you run into the argument of everyone playing the same character on the same stage ect. which people have already said in this thread and we all agree is boring as hell.

It's ok to have advantages and disadvantages within good taste. That is something Injustice accomplished and MKX it will be even less of a factor (I'm repeating myself now).
The analogy of home field advantage doesn't really work because all of the stadiums are still symmetrical. They still follow a standard ruleset. It's not like one side of the field has an endzone that is half the size of the other side.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I actually disagree with you the advantage is very noticeable imo and has led to rock paper scissors MANY times in tournaments here on the EC at least. Also it as happening at KIT. It matters quite a bit unfortunately and was a a major flaw of the game.
So you rush down fools do not mind actual rock/paper/scissors gameplay (i.e., safe 50/50 mix ups that loop), yet blockable interactable objects will apparently break the game in Mortal Kombat X.

Fools of the week.
 

SnoopyClownGang

Who's Next?
Also, I just thought about this.

A game that had a bug where one player always has collision priority over the other, no matter what, lived through 4 EVOs, and was backed by the community on the 4th EVO in terms of pot. And it was largely determined that that advantage was minimal.

Just throwing that out there.
Just because it was minimal doesn't mean it wasn't bullshit. Are you saying people wouldn't choose to turn P1 advantage off if it was an option? That would be ridiculous.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I actually disagree with you the advantage is very noticeable imo and has led to rock paper scissors MANY times in tournaments here on the EC at least. Also it was happening at KIT. It matters quite a bit unfortunately and was a a major flaw of the game.
Interactables were not blockable in INJ

Two different games, two very different mechanics
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Just because it was minimal doesn't mean it wasn't bullshit. Are you saying people wouldn't choose to turn P1 advantage off if it was an option? That would be ridiculous.
People would turn it off, but even if they didn't turn it off, it wouldn't matter. I can't name one person who knew about the P1 advantage and claimed it made them win/lose.

It can't really be bullshit if it's not affecting anything in a major way.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
well lets just said that a serious discussion about banning them will never happen
This is because what you're asserting is bankrupt and most of the community knows it. You're trying to cling to an as-of-now discredited position and blame that on other people's stubbornness. This can be revisited when we have the game, if it seems to be a problem in any demonstrable way. You have to accept that it may actually not be deemed an issue, whether you like it or not. Until such a time as that, there is honestly no more to be said in this discussion than what's already been hashed out.

Can't wait for this thread to finally get locked.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
The analogy of home field advantage doesn't really work because all of the stadiums are still symmetrical. They still follow a standard ruleset. It's not like one side of the field has an endzone that is half the size of the other side.
I think it works quite gracefully. Are the stages not generally symmetrical? Do they not also follow the general rule of a 2D plain with a certain amount of length and height as any stadium would? Yes they do. There are things in the stages that can vary, just like a stadium.

"It's not like one side of the field has an endzone that is half the size of the other side."

What game are you talking about that has this? Where in MKX are you seeing something this extreme?
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
Ok, How about after the game comes out when we all have the game we take a poll only involving tournament players and just go off of that and whatever the results are they are. I'm even willing to leave it to only mk9 top 8 placers at only MLG's and Evo's and just leave it to you guys to do decide. I don't care but the one thing I don't want personally is the same attitude that happened in injustice where people just let it rock and then never actually re-evaluated later as a community even though many people actually wanted it.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
So you rush down fools do not mind actual rock/paper/scissors gameplay (i.e., safe 50/50 mix ups that loop), yet blockable interactable objects will apparently break the game in Mortal Kombat X.

Fools of the week.
um... what? I HATE safe 50/50 mixups that loop it's one of the main reasons I didn't play injustice. If MKX has it all over the place then i'll be disappointed for sure but will play for the love of MK. Also it's not about breaking the game, it's about adding more randomness that doesn't need to be there that's all.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Ok, How about after the game comes out when we all have the game we take a poll only involving tournament players and just go off of that and whatever the results are they are. I'm even willing to leave it to only mk9 top 8 placers at only MLG's and Evo's and just leave it to you guys to do decide. I don't care but the one thing I don't want personally is the same attitude that happened in injustice where people just let it rock and then never actually re-evaluated later as a community even though many people actually wanted it.
OTGs in inj would have been fine if they didn't OTG but scaled at end of combos and easier to back dash or avoid

I think they should be allowed until some gut wrenchingly broken interacatable is found that can't be fixed
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Ok, How about after the game comes out when we all have the game we take a poll only involving tournament players and just go off of that and whatever the results are they are. I'm even willing to leave it to only mk9 top 8 placers at only MLG's and Evo's and just leave it to you guys to do decide. I don't care but the one thing I don't want personally is the same attitude that happened in injustice where people just let it rock and then never actually re-evaluated later as a community even though many people actually wanted it.
Why only MK9 placers? Are Inj top 8 players not considered top players?
 

CD jr

Noob
It's okay. Not to be Rude but...

The reason he keeps coming back (or any of us for that matter)...

...is because he fucking cares. We fucking care. We need to speak about the possibilty of these things. With concrete finishes or not.
its ok kitana prime im the evil one here and im gonna bear that tittle cause i deserve it for what i did in injustice. Thanks for having my back though and even though we disagree on this whole thing this is just a difference of opinions i still love you
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
its ok kitana prime im the evil one here and im gonna bear that tittle cause i deserve it for what i did in injustice. Thanks for having my back though and even though we disagree on this whole thing this is just a difference of opinions i still love you
Who said you were evil? I point out ridiculous behavior no matter who it is. I have no personal agendas or grudges toward anyone.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
The primary point i'm trying to make here is this:

We need information before we make any bold proclamations or decisions. We need to break down the properties of interactables, the frame data, the meta game, the punishes, before we declare them broken or unusable.

Knowledge and study over knee jerk reactions because of past games. That is what i support. If they are a broken mess, fine. Ban them. If there are viable, reliable, and consistent ways to get around them, fine.

But there are NO MK X authority figures, yet. There is no highest level of play because the game has not yet been released. No one knows more about the game than anyone else unless you're a tester, so relax and see what happens, first.
 

SnoopyClownGang

Who's Next?
So, there is a lot of talk of player advantage in this thread.

Hmm. If you can punish a blocked interactable, or teleport on a read, or bait it, then i don't see a problem.
You can punish a blocked dragon punch. You can also bait it out and punish a whiffed one. Still gives a clear advantage if you play the exact same character and the game gives P2 a dragon punch but not P1.

I think it works quite gracefully. Are the stages not generally symmetrical? Do they not also follow the general rule of a 2D plain with a certain amount of length and height as any stadium would? Yes they do. There are things in the stages that can vary, just like a stadium.

"It's not like one side of the field has an endzone that is half the size of the other side."

What game are you talking about that has this? Where in MKX are you seeing something this extreme?
Start video at 55:40
One corner has a throwable item. The other side has a corner escape AND a throwable item. This isn't as extreme as one endzone being HALF the size of the other, but it doesn't have to be. Even if one endzone was only six inches wider, I would still want that side every time.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Start video at 55:40
One corner has a throwable item. The other side has a corner escape AND a throwable item. This isn't as extreme as one endzone being HALF the size of the other, but it doesn't have to be. Even if one endzone was only six inches wider, I would still want that side every time.
God really we're gonna want to ban interactables for something this nit-picky? I mean yea I'm sure every team that plays football would rather have the side where the wind is at their backs instead of going against it but that doesn't force the NFL to make every game be played indoors. If you lost the game based on something that miniscule and it is eating you up inside, then request a 1P/2P swap. That's what any team does at half time. Jesus.

I can't get over the fact that we are coming from a game where the interactables were clearly a much bigger factor and they weren't banned, to a game where they won't be nearly as big of a factor yet we are talking about banning them. What the fuck is going on here?
 
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